I was thinking last night, couldn't sleep and thinking for me is dangerous. I was wondering what the percentage of post ops change their Sexual Orientation when they transtion at a younger age. Example; MtoF how many go from liking woman to liking men. Does the percentage get higher the younger you are and so most MtoF still like woman or become asexual when they transition at an older age, assuming that they weren't gay before. This goes for FtoM also. I was just wondering if the age of transition has any effect on your Sexual Orientation.
I have know quite a few women who have transitioned at an older age and they call themselve lesbians and I know a lot of woman who have transitioned at a younger age and have gone to dating men. In my little view of the world of transexualism, it seems that if you transition at a young age you would more than likely be heterosexual and if transition at a later age you will be homosexual or asexual. There are always exceptions as I had said not all.
Like I said I was thinking last night and came up with that thought. I guess it could have been the Chineese food.
Sheila

I don't know - perhaps some later mtf transitioners have some baggage about being with men and this may be the cause?
Actually, most the gay ftms I come across tend to be younger and more 'genderqueerish' than older ftms who I mostly find to be overwhelmingly straight.

Sheila I can tell you that I started on one kind or another of harmones at age 15 1/2.

I am into guys. Have always been, but always thought of myself as a girl too since the age of 10/11.

Hope this helps you in your quest for answers.

Deb

Hi Sheila;

There is another thread about this:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18185.msg141147.html#msg141147

And Melissa has a very good theory:

Quote from: Melissa on August 24, 2007, 11:44:30 AM

Quote from: Tink on August 23, 2007, 10:37:49 PM
I have also heard, I don't know how accurate this information is, that TS women who identify as 100% heterosexual (key word 100%)  are those who transitioned when young (late teens/early twenties).  I have to do that google search that LIT suggested just to be sure...

My theory on this is because they not only have a gender identity conflict, but also are attracted to the same sex, which is socially unacceptable, the situation become much worse earlier on and thus they transition as a result.  Those that are not exclusively 100% hetero at least have the solace of having the ability to be with people with whom you are attracted to in a socially acceptable relationship (i.e. Lesbian in man's body with another woman is socially acceptable because they appear to be a normal hetero couple).  So because they only have the GID issue to deal with, they may not have as much motivation to transition so early.  I also believe this strongly correlates with the primary/secondary paradigm, although I see that as completely anecdotal and fraught with fallacies due to the general nature of having some people being the exception to any rule.

I quite agree with it.  I also remember reading a study pertaining to this subject.  I just have to find the time to google it out.

Personally, I have never been attracted to girls.  Indeed, I have never been with a woman intimately.  I transitioned when I was almost 21, and hormones didn't change my sexual orientation (as it has happened with a few people).  Honestly, I could never be with a woman.  I don't think any hormones could ever change that. 

tink

Well.... From what Ive seen thorugh the forums and chat and other venues... your theory is pretty much true Sheila...

I used to like girls... but something after HRT clicked on <or off> Im not sure which but I like guys...  there jerks, there frustrating and imposable, and really drive me nuts... but I still like them *sigh* I did start transition in my early 20's so....

Quote from: Tink on August 24, 2007, 10:29:09 PM
Hi Sheila;

There is another thread about this:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18185.msg141147.html#msg141147

And Melissa has a very good theory:

Quote from: Melissa on August 24, 2007, 11:44:30 AM

Quote from: Tink on August 23, 2007, 10:37:49 PM
I have also heard, I don't know how accurate this information is, that TS women who identify as 100% heterosexual (key word 100%)  are those who transitioned when young (late teens/early twenties).  I have to do that google search that LIT suggested just to be sure...

My theory on this is because they not only have a gender identity conflict, but also are attracted to the same sex, which is socially unacceptable, the situation become much worse earlier on and thus they transition as a result.  Those that are not exclusively 100% hetero at least have the solace of having the ability to be with people with whom you are attracted to in a socially acceptable relationship (i.e. Lesbian in man's body with another woman is socially acceptable because they appear to be a normal hetero couple).  So because they only have the GID issue to deal with, they may not have as much motivation to transition so early.  I also believe this strongly correlates with the primary/secondary paradigm, although I see that as completely anecdotal and fraught with fallacies due to the general nature of having some people being the exception to any rule.

I quite agree with it.  I also remember reading a study pertaining to this subject.  I just have to find the time to google it out.

Personally, I have never been attracted to girls.  Indeed, I have never been with a woman intimately.  I transitioned when I was almost 21, and hormones didn't change my sexual orientation (as it has happened with a few people).  Honestly, I could never be with a woman.  I don't think any hormones could ever change that. 

tink

I pretty much agree with Melissa's theory as well. I also feel that homosexual (gay or lesbian) TS have more stock in playing the opposite gender (birth gender) because they are seen as straight, and may try being a 'normal' member of their birth sex to be the 'ideal' to members of the sex they like.
And let's be honest about this - homosexuals are still stigmatized in our society. Some homosexual TS may be less motivated to relinquish their 'normal straight male/female' status.

I honestly don't believe HRT plays a role in orientation. I believe sexual orientation is fixed. Hard-wired from birth.
People do not 'choose' which sex to be attracted to. If this were so - then giving gay males high level T injections would 'cure' them.
Now, sexual PRACTICE is an entirely different thing. A transwoman may have always been attracted to men, but never acted on it. Then once she comes out as a woman, suddenly notices a strong attraction to men.
I believe this attraction was already in existence, but she repressed it for whatever reason. This could be especially true for those raised in religion and believed homosexuality to be sin.

Now I'm going to state a very unpopular opinion -
I believe a lot of the younger transmen identifying as 'gay men' to be nothing more than extreme hardcore ->-bleeped-<- hags crushing on gay men.

Nero pulls open his robe. Take your best shot. Flame me now!

Well, I'm 38 so I think that's in between young and old. I've been married twice. I know I'm 100% heterosexual, attracted to guys as a woman. I like women, but more for friendship, I know I can't be in a relationship with one (even though I've pretty much spent most of my adult life trying to play that role). I succeeded in convincing myself and the women I was that it would work out, especially at the beginning of the relationships.

I truly know that I need a relationship with a guy to feel the intimacy (not talking about sex here, if you feel the same way, you know what I'm talking about (the holding hands, kissing, just feeling really close to someone)). I can't and have never been able to feel that with a woman. I mean, I know what a woman wants so it can be a little self-delusional, but I do know what I need to fulfill my innermost relationship needs. It was so confusing for a long time, it's like "how am I supposed to be able to have a fulfilling relationship if I need a guy  and I'm a girl but I have a man's body?" Very confusing to say the least.

I have known this since my teens but I've never done anything about it. I've never really been afraid of a relationship with a guy as a guy, but it just doesn't feel right, it's hard to explain. I would be totally accepting of myself if I was a gay guy, but that's not what I am. I'm a heterosexual girl.

So, I am not sure about others, but here I am at 38 knowing that I want and need to be in a relationship with a guy to be happy. I'd rather never be in another relationship than be in another that left me unfulfilled and empty.

Quote from: regina on August 25, 2007, 12:02:23 AM

Quote from: Nero on August 24, 2007, 11:06:15 PM

Now I'm going to state a very unpopular opinion -
I believe a lot of the younger transmen identifying as 'gay men' to be nothing more than extreme hardcore ->-bleeped-<- hags crushing on gay men.

Nero pulls open his robe. Take your best shot. Flame me now!

Please close your robe silly. Then kindly explain what you mean with this statement— I'm a little tired and feeling dense. Are you saying they're more into gay culture than actual gay sex? Several years ago, I was in a support group that had 3 young transitioned ftms who totally identified as gay men, had 'daddies' (2 of the 3 were also big-time tweakers) and sure seemed into their sexlives (unless it was all a show).

Oh, I'm not saying there aren't gay transmen, just that I've come across a number of self-identified 'gay men' ftms who were just like your average boy-crazy teen girl (despite being in their 20s) and seemed to have an unhealthy obsession with gay male culture. They really came across as ->-bleeped-<- hags to me. The type of ->-bleeped-<- hags that always fall for gays and end up wishing they were men so they could snag gay guys.
That's all I'm saying. I'm not denying the existence of gay transmen at all.

Hi Sheila,

I transitioned very young 12 and half, 13 years of age. I've always been interested in men only.

I've been essentially, asexual, except for one het relationship prior to transition, which just confirmed everything. My fantasies though have always been of me as a women with a man. I've never been able to be excited by the idea of penetrating anything, always seemed totally weird and foreign. But, I think that I could also be with a women, and wouldn't object (but only as a women, not now for sure).

So, I guess I'm BI with a stronger leaning on the HET side and transitioned at 39.

I think that those that have had fullfilling sex before transition have a greater chance of being lesbians afterward, for those who mostly attracted by men, the sex with a woman as a man is just too weird to be comtemplated (my case).

Quote from: regina on August 25, 2007, 01:15:18 AM

Quote from: Nero on August 25, 2007, 12:16:33 AM
Oh, I'm not saying there aren't gay transmen, just that I've come across a number of self-identified 'gay men' ftms who were just like your average boy-crazy teen girl (despite being in their 20s) and seemed to have an unhealthy obsession with gay male culture. They really came across as ->-bleeped-<- hags to me. The type of ->-bleeped-<- hags that always fall for gays and end up wishing they were men so they could snag gay guys.
That's all I'm saying. I'm not denying the existence of gay transmen at all.

Okay, well, that said, what exactly is an unhealthy obsession with gay male culture? Why shouldn't a self-identified gay male be, in some way, obsessed with gay male culture? What do you want them to be obsessed with... boring straight male culture?

Having lived in very intensely gay neighborhoods for many years, I can say that a LOT of recently relocated gay men (recently out or not so recently out) behave like teenagers when they get to a place like the Castro (and, yes, it can sometimes seem immature and self-indulgent to people outside that culture). But I totally get why there's that giddiness. Growing up in places where there might be been a limited number of gay men they could connect with, no one gay their own age or too much negative stigma or even danger to be openly gay, it's a heady experience (no lame jokes please) to suddenly be among thousands of other gay men. I can see that, for a gay male-identified ftm, it could be much the same feeling of release. So why do they have to behave some certain way that you're comfortable with or risk being labeled as boy-crazy quasi girls? That's sounding a lot like homophobia. Is that the kind of male culture you want them to aspire to?

what's up, mister??
Gina M.

Nero feels a new topic coming on...

Thank you all for what I was thinking about for hours the other night when I couldn't sleep. I hope I didn't offend anyone as I didn't want to catagorize any person as I do not like to be in a catagory either. I had seen some statistics about people who transition and they say about a third are homosexual and another third are asexual and the other third are heterosexual. Then someone from this board had said that some become bi-sexual. This all got my little bit of gray matter to moving and I started to think about what age these people transition and what happened to their orientation. I know that HRT does not change your orientation but just the feeling that you have gone to who you know as your self may trigger some latent feelings for either the opposite or same or both or not at all. Lot of "or's". LOL So, just by reading what all of you had to say I guess lying in bed and not being able to sleep was worth it. I have my best thoughts when I can't sleep and then I forget about them the next day. Thank you all, you are all a good bunch to be around. Where would I be without you all? hmmm Don't answer that.
Love Sheila

For whoever doesn't know by now, I am bi.  And I am going to say that little fact wasn't changed by transition since my encounters with either gender go all the way back to my teenage years.  I did, however, spend many decades trying to deny it just like my gender identity.

Quote from: Nero on August 25, 2007, 12:16:33 AM
I'm not denying the existence of gay transmen at all.

Since I have met some of them...

Well, I did my homework last night.  I did extensive research on google regarding this topic.  To my surprise, there isn't enough information out there.  Indeed, there are some studies and articles from some universities, but they have to be purchased.  Bummer!  Anyhow, I found this link which may not be as complete as some of us expect, but at least it will shed some light...

http://www.geocities.com/harperjeantobin/thesis/index.html


tink

I'm a little disappointed that it's only an undergraduate thesis.  I wish there weren't so many areas to study when I get to thesis time.  There's only one of me.