I know for sure that if I ever want to pass regardless of what route I take, I'll have to ditch the swearing.  That's a difficult one for me.  I'll have to be a lot less abrasive and aggressive, but I won't stop being assertive.

I'll likely keep on gaming.  My interest has started to wane slightly (though this might change with the release of Lost Alpha for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl), but I know a lot of women who game.

FA, yes. My writing skills used to be impeccable. I mean, I still *can* write if I put my mind to it...like, my father is the executive editor of a major local publication and he still has me edit his side projects...but the problem, now, is that instinct takes over. Punctuation flies out the window, 'because' becomes 'cuz', etc. and I've just learned to make myself come off as generally more...dappy and silly.

Out of habit, I even tell people that I meet that I'm stupid/unintelligent, and it ends up becoming a running thing between us...like a lot of people see me as vain and silly, without a thought in my head, just because that's how I portray myself, to them. Not that I'm exactly a rocket scientist, just that I downplay the brains that I *do* have a ton.

Kimberly, I still swear like a sailor, to be honest, haha. I can't see that ever changing

Quote from: FA on May 07, 2014, 10:43:56 AM
Sometimes girls going through puberty 'get dumb', and stop focusing as much on academic pursuits. Not intentionally, but there's some kind of unspoken expectation that girls aren't 'too smart'. Especially straight girls.

Not saying that's what you're doing. But it happens.

I know I did the play dumb thing for a while, and then I was like this this really stupid and stopped, but I do feel less apt to contribute to heavy discussions when men are there just cause of how they make me feel when I try doing that.

I do the same thing Abby is talking about with how I write now, but I think a) some of it is just a more fun way of talking/less dry/more interesting way to communicate, b) re: punctuation, eff it typing on touchscreens.  Who has patience for it?

But part of why I free myself from always being sure to word things impeccably is because Idc if I come across smart anymore, which I think is maybe a girl thing vs. Transition.  Not that girls aren't smart, but that society doesn't want them to be a lot of the time, it feels like.

Then you say that and in will come the men to mansplain why that is not true.  But I'm sorry, it is true.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on May 07, 2014, 09:44:31 AM
I personally can't think of any Sacrifices I had to make.

Everything I did in that old life is totally accepted in this new life, truthfully most of what I see are Gains.

I do many more things now that I felt constraint from in the past.

This is me as well to a "T". I didn't sacrifice anything and gained more than I ever thought.

Quote from: Jen on May 07, 2014, 11:26:23 AM

Then you say that and in will come the men to mansplain why that is not true.  But I'm sorry, it is true.

Yeah, I think men are upset by the idea. Any human would be confronted with it. But it is a thing. It'll only change probably when women stop being valued first for their outsides.

Some men are very fantastic and actually feminist.  i don't want to come across man-hating.  I don't hate men, just some of them are annoying.

Quote from: Abbyxo on May 07, 2014, 10:53:33 AM
Out of habit, I even tell people that I meet that I'm stupid/unintelligent, and it ends up becoming a running thing between us...like a lot of people see me as vain and silly, without a thought in my head, just because that's how I portray myself, to them. Not that I'm exactly a rocket scientist, just that I downplay the brains that I *do* have a ton.

You may try to make people think you aren't smart, but I don't think anybody is buying it .

Also, I've been talking about conscious things, I wonder how much of this business of fitting boxes happens subconsciously with me, with all of us.  Prob best not to think about that lol.

None. Can't think of a single thing. True, I was gender non-conforming before I started transitioning, so that sort of makes sense. The only thing I'll probably have to give up down the road is a lot of hair, as there's male-pattern baldness on both sides of my family; and my hair is a little bit part of my personality, because I really like it. But... having hair vs. being happy? that's sort of a no-brainer. 

Obviously FA grew up in a different atmosphere than I did.  In High School and on the girls were generally smarter than the boys and demonstrated it.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on May 07, 2014, 12:43:34 PM
Obviously FA grew up in a different atmosphere than I did.  In High School and on the girls were generally smarter than the boys and demonstrated it.

Well, I'm not saying there were never girls who excelled. I'm saying it's sort of 'dis encouraged' in a way. I certainly felt it growing up.

That's why I said you grew up in a different atmosphere, that wasn't common in the area and the time I was in school.  It certainly might have been in your area and I do know some television shows encouraged that attitude.

Quote from: FAI'm not saying there were never girls who excelled. I'm saying it's sort of 'dis encouraged' in a way. I certainly felt it growing up.

I did too, big time. And ignored it, which would've been a bit of hint if I'd known to pay attention...

Quote from: Sarah Louise on May 07, 2014, 12:51:22 PM
That's why I said you grew up in a different atmosphere, that wasn't common in the area and the time I was in school.  It certainly might have been in your area and I do know some television shows encouraged that attitude.

Yeah, but I mean do you really know it wasn't? Like I said, it's an unspoken thing that most people would be horrified about. I mean, there are always girls who are strong and rise above. Or that had very encouraging (and/or feminist) parents. But that doesn't mean it's not a thing.

I was a little girl in 80s suburbia. And pretty much the top of my class. Honor roll. A few awards. But my teachers (even the female ones) seemed to regard me with contempt. I was smart, but never encouraged. Never given what the boys in class were. Help. Guidance. Anything. All the focus was on the smart boys and cute, feminine girls. My knowing the answers seemed more of a nuisance to teachers than anything else. And then there's all the unspoken stuff...

Anyway, yeah I'm a little bitter about it.

QuoteI was a little girl in 80s suburbia. And pretty much the top of my class. Honor roll. A few awards. But my teachers (even the female ones) seemed to regard me with contempt. I was smart, but never encouraged. Never given what the boys in class were. Help. Guidance. Anything. All the focus was on the smart boys and cute, feminine girls. My knowing the answers seemed more of a nuisance to teachers than anything else. And then there's all the unspoken stuff...

This. Substitute 60s for 80s, and that was me. And it was pretty overt then -- I tried to get into auto shop, or wood shop, and was told "No, those are only for boys, because they will need jobs... you'll just be getting married."

Embarrassingly, I had a femme phase, immediately after I went full time and all. Under the guise of "making sure I would pass," I was under a ton of pressure from my family and therapist and my own fear to present a certain way. I grew my hair long, wore girly clothes (though I refused point-blank to let them put me in a skirt), and even learned how to do makeup.

Eventually I kind of lost it and got in a big fight with my mum and things started to change. Though then I went through a period where I was scared to do or wear ANYTHING girly for fear that people would take that as license to start interfering again. But I'm mostly okay now.

For a while I also held on to the embarrassment that I was a huge geek when I was younger, but now I try really hard to own it, to own all of who I am.

Quote from: Tysilio on May 07, 2014, 01:11:45 PM

QuoteI was a little girl in 80s suburbia. And pretty much the top of my class. Honor roll. A few awards. But my teachers (even the female ones) seemed to regard me with contempt. I was smart, but never encouraged. Never given what the boys in class were. Help. Guidance. Anything. All the focus was on the smart boys and cute, feminine girls. My knowing the answers seemed more of a nuisance to teachers than anything else. And then there's all the unspoken stuff...

This. Substitute 60s for 80s, and that was me. And it was pretty overt then -- I tried to get into auto shop, or wood shop, and was told "No, those are only for boys, because they will need jobs... you'll just be getting married."

Exactly. I mean, the people who posted dissenting are my friends. But I can't help but feel a little invalidated. I'd just like to point out that - if you asked me, a white kid, racism wasn't a problem at all in my town/school/etc. If you asked a black person from my town, he or she would probably have a different take.

No one is trying to "invalidate" anyone.  We are all just giving our own perspective of how things were when we were raised.

Some of you know my background and the issues I had, it would never be my intent to question the validity of others experiences.

I will bow out of this thread to avoid any further controversy.
__________________

p.s. I tried to get into home economics, typing, etc and was refused and told to take shop and drafting.  It goes both ways.

Not sure I understand the topic title. We don't "become" anything; we change our bodies in some cases to ease dysphoria, but that's not "becoming" something else... Anyway, moving on - nothing has changed. My personality and interests are the same as they always were. I've gotten calmer with age, that's it.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on May 07, 2014, 01:47:41 PM
No one is trying to "invalidate" anyone.  We are all just giving our own perspective of how things were when we were raised.

Some of you know my background and the issues I had, it would never be my intent to question the validity of others experiences.

I will bow out of this thread to avoid any further controversy.
__________________

p.s. I tried to get into home economics, typing, etc and was refused and told to take shop and drafting.  It goes both ways.

That's okay hon. I know you. I know you wouldn't do that. For me though, this is a touchy subject. I'm not happy about how I was treated as a girl. Not only for me, but in general. I'm upset about it. I don't know, it just seems like there's a tendency on here to deny this stuff. And it's personal for me. If I had been a boy from the jump... I'd be a different person today. And not just because of trans stuff.

Quote from: Declan.Not sure I understand the topic title. We don't "become" anything; we change our bodies in some cases to ease dysphoria, but that's not "becoming" something else...

I know that's the party line, but I'm not sure it's entirely true. Part of what makes a man a man, or a woman a woman, is how they're socialized, and what FA and I are talking about is a good example of that. No matter how much I believe that I was misgendered from the get-go, I wasn't raised as a boy, and that means I missed a lot of what makes a man in this society. So it's not just that I'm changing my body: there's other, non-physical stuff I need to acquire in order to become the man I'm supposed to be.

Quote from: Declan. on May 07, 2014, 01:56:31 PM
Not sure I understand the topic title. We don't "become" anything; we change our bodies in some cases to ease dysphoria, but that's not "becoming" something else... Anyway, moving on - nothing has changed. My personality and interests are the same as they always were. I've gotten calmer with age, that's it.

I shouldn't speak for the op but I think the idea is there is pressure to conform to social standards and if at your core you don't fit exactly into them, your choices are to either hang out in between the two modes society imposes, where the whole world is gonna be evil to you, or you do conform and lose a part of yourself in the process.

I think we all want to think we are being authentic even when we do conform to the norms, but it's healthy to think about it and make sure, cause you don't want to lose something of yourself just cause the world says so, esp if it's something interesting/cool.