I want to warn about some of the language I'm using beforehand. Trigger warning for descriptions of genitals and trans bodies + sex.

I've been wanting to discuss this with others who could talk about it in a non tumblr environment. I'm not in tumblr's age range of transition (late 20's) and I've had formal education and online education about Gender, Sex and Transsexuality vs ->-bleeped-<-. I'm not a person studying in the field or anything, but it really bothers me when I still hear the narrative of All or None dysphoria about genitals. I do tend to agree with folks who say that any dysphoria can be big or small and sometimes the littlest things can make you feel horrible for days on end. I have a mix of big and small triggers for it myself, mainly chest dysphoria but my bottom isn't as bad because it's the lack of visual than the lack of feeling something. It actually bothers me more to use stps, pack n plays bc it highlights that foreign feeling.  My feeling is that I'm angry about it like my chest, but more like HRT has done good stuff for me and I hope it continues to do good stuff for me until I have meta. Penetration isn't a big deal for me, but I tend to think that people who have disassociation feelings about it tend to be more critical of trans men who don't have it.

I also think Social Dsyphoria isn't talked about as much regarding physical appearance. Like I'm in a category where I'm andro but I'm short and my personal style is very 'teacher/librarian' so sometimes people misgender me before they even hear my voice. Having that disconnect in social situations even if you're not being questioned can ruin a perfectly good day for you. So many times have I had this instinctive fear of going to a bathroom when I know I'm passing and just feeling like everyone was looking at me on the way there and back. I don't know-sometimes I chalk it up to it being young people who see things as a bigger contrast of Physical dysphoria to worry about and sometimes I think that once you start to edge towards your thirties and aren't in college anymore you start to become invisible in trans discussion. I think also that many young people think that dysphoria makes you unable to have a sexual relationship and that dysphoria is a constant thing when in fact it fluctuates.

What do you all think about Dysphoria as a spectrum? Do you think that discussion is going in the right direction right now?

I think dysphoria can bother people in different ways, for sure. For example, maybe about 6 months ago, I needed surgery ASAP because I got a binding injury and couldn't deal with the chest being there. I couldn't see myself NOT getting it done by October. It was horrific. But now, I'm OK waiting an extra few months to save money to have it, because I realized that for a man my size, my chest is only a little unusual...I really just look like a fat kid with gyno. It still sucks but I've realized other men have similar issues. And I realize dysphoria comes in waves, and the next wave I have may be even worse if I don't have my surgery in a reasonable amount of time. I also have social dysphoria, but it mostly happens because if someone calls me "she", they obviously saw me as female, and it forces me to confront the possibility that they saw the damage estrogen did to my body. I think, but I don't know for sure, that's what's often going on in social dysphoria situations, but I can't speak for anyone except myself.

So in that sense, yes, I definitely think it affects people in different ways and has varying intensities. The only problem with the "spectrum", imo, is that it's become a way for people to say you can be trans with NO dysphoria, or some people who even say you can choose to be transgender for political reasons. To me it's kind of like if I were saying "yeah I don't like guys romantically, and I don't want to have sex with them, penis is nasty, damn their hairy faces, but I'm a gay man because they wear fabulous clothes and I like fabulous clothes." I think that when we talk about dysphoria as a spectrum it's important to be conscientious that, to someone who is not informed, they may take it as "oh, so someone could choose to be transgender" or "so transgender is really about making a statement."

Yeah I definitely have a problem with 'non dysphorics' honestly because then it boils down to being uncomfortable gender roles and not secondary sexual characteristic dysphoria. I know saying that it's a spectrum can be sticky-so I guess I could stick with thinking of it as it is-something that can be variable depending on the person. There's so much misinformation about it that it makes the language have to change and that limits how we can talk about things.

Yeah, your language point is really important. Seems to me it's kind of like Francis Bacon's Idol of the Marketplace. We lack a common language to discuss trans topics with, and so as a result it's hard to really articulate what's going on and the nuances of the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idola_fori

Quote from: birkin on May 12, 2014, 07:49:41 PM
Yeah, your language point is really important. Seems to me it's kind of like Francis Bacon's Idol of the Marketplace. We lack a common language to discuss trans topics with, and so as a result it's hard to really articulate what's going on and the nuances of the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idola_fori

I never knew that there was a word for this sort of thing. I've felt like this happens in other areas of intersectional movements, but have never come across this before. Thank you!

I agree on pretty much everything both of you have said. Dysphoria presents in different ways and can come is waves, but I also am very uncomfortable with the idea of gender being confused with gender roles.
For me, I have mostly physical dysphoria and it's mostly about my chest, face, shape, and (oddly enough) skin. I do have genital dysphoria and the fact that I have ovaries and a uterus bothers me, but most of the time, I can just ignore them. I also don't pack or use stps because something foreign in that area would just make me uncomfortable. I do get some social dysphoria because I think people see me as female and I'm not, but it has less to do with roles and more to do with the fact that they don't see me for who I am.

Quote from: campenella on May 12, 2014, 07:44:37 PM
Yeah I definitely have a problem with 'non dysphorics' honestly because then it boils down to being uncomfortable gender roles and not secondary sexual characteristic dysphoria. I know saying that it's a spectrum can be sticky-so I guess I could stick with thinking of it as it is-something that can be variable depending on the person. There's so much misinformation about it that it makes the language have to change and that limits how we can talk about things.

Yeah I agree with this. To me social dysphoria seems like a separate category from physical dysphoria, to the extent that it might have a completely different cause. Plus, I don't know...I don't see how you can base your identity around whether other people see you a specific way, because people are sometimes gonna see you in ways you don't see yourself, that's just a fact of life.

Someone on another site said something like "I just want to be seen as a man who happens to have a female body" and that doesn't make sense to me. What does it mean for them to be a man if they live as a woman and don't have a problem with the biological side of it, just the gender roles? There are lots of aspects of gender roles that suck regardless of your gender and most people aren't 100% comfortable with all of them. But not being comfortable "living as ___" seems like more of a problem with society than with your gender. Maybe identifying as something else is the best way to deal with that discomfort in some cases, but I don't think it should be conflated with being trans.

There is a huge spectrum of dysphoria and dysphoric feelings. I think there is much  misinformation on tumblr that makes it sound like certain people who do not have severe physical dysphoria that they are not trans. This is disrespectful and just plain wrong. There is an internal sense of gender that may not really be easy to understand. If your  sex assigned at birth and internal sense of gender are not matching you are trans and also "trans enough". You may or may not be what is termed "transsexual" (I don't personally identify with that term-- though I have had surgery and am on T), but not all transgender people are transsexual. I really don't like this "transcum" type of stuff that goes on. But I tend to think tumblr is a vast wasteland with a few good blogs. They completely disregard (or are unaware) of the internal sense of gender and confuse this for gender roles.

--Jay

When I first started transition, the Internet was a blessing and a curse. I saw so many things that basically said "if you don't feel X you aren't 'trans enough' and how dare you". My dysphoria had always been my chest. My social dysphoria used to be bad, but I don't care so much. When I first looked at transition seriously I was 19. I had left home at 16 and suffered through before I learned about transition. I found the Internet and I closed down. I've never talked about it, but one comment from my father after a conversation with a trans guy made me question myself so seriously I stopped everything and purged the items I had bought.

Susan's helped in that I saw that the tumblr like mindset was not the reality.  I don't know if the conversations are going in the right direction. There were tells for me, but it's hard to boil down human experiences and thoughts to a black and white. We are all grey. My triggers don't match others, even here. On tumblr I'm a 'transtender' either because I don't care so much about my ovaries or because I refuse to 'express my love of feminine things', whatever that means.

I do know that once I stopped listening to 'trans educators' on the Internet I felt better. I have a great sex life and romance life. I'm married to a gay man who jokes about how we both are 'so queer we do LGBT wrong'. He was told by gay men that I negated his being gay and I was told if I wasn't straight I was doing trans wrong. I have talked to many young people from my hometown (referred to me as a source from others) who were confused or had thoughts that the Internet said were wrong. I refer them to Susan's because at least they can see that we have different ideas of dysphoria. There are common threads, of course, but I promise that my triggers are different from everyone here, just like mine are alien to them. Humans are creatures if variety.

Quote from: aleon515 on May 12, 2014, 11:44:51 PM
There is a huge spectrum of dysphoria and dysphoric feelings. I think there is much  misinformation on tumblr that makes it sound like certain people who do not have severe physical dysphoria that they are not trans. This is disrespectful and just plain wrong. There is an internal sense of gender that may not really be easy to understand. If your  sex assigned at birth and internal sense of gender are not matching you are trans and also "trans enough". You may or may not be what is termed "transsexual" (I don't personally identify with that term-- though I have had surgery and am on T), but not all transgender people are transsexual. I really don't like this "transcum" type of stuff that goes on. But I tend to think tumblr is a vast wasteland with a few good blogs. They completely disregard (or are unaware) of the internal sense of gender and confuse this for gender roles.

--Jay

Why do you always say what I try to, but far better than I can manage?? Maybe being a clone will give me more eloquence.

Quote from: aleon515 on May 12, 2014, 11:44:51 PM
There is a huge spectrum of dysphoria and dysphoric feelings. I think there is much  misinformation on tumblr that makes it sound like certain people who do not have severe physical dysphoria that they are not trans. This is disrespectful and just plain wrong. There is an internal sense of gender that may not really be easy to understand. If your  sex assigned at birth and internal sense of gender are not matching you are trans and also "trans enough". You may or may not be what is termed "transsexual" (I don't personally identify with that term-- though I have had surgery and am on T), but not all transgender people are transsexual. I really don't like this "transcum" type of stuff that goes on. But I tend to think tumblr is a vast wasteland with a few good blogs. They completely disregard (or are unaware) of the internal sense of gender and confuse this for gender roles.

--Jay

"Transcum", "truscum", tomaaayto, tomahhto... 
Yeah, there are people who are taking things to extremes on both ends of that argument on Tumblr.  It's getting out of hand.

Quote from: Edge on May 12, 2014, 10:41:00 PM
For me, I have mostly physical dysphoria and it's mostly about my chest, face, shape, and (oddly enough) skin.

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in skin dysphoria.  I feel very, very uncomfortable if someone tells me I have soft skin.

Quote from: birkin on May 12, 2014, 07:49:41 PM
Yeah, your language point is really important. Seems to me it's kind of like Francis Bacon's Idol of the Marketplace. We lack a common language to discuss trans topics with, and so as a result it's hard to really articulate what's going on and the nuances of the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idola_fori

Thanks so much for this link!

Don't listen to anyone, even nice people or educated people or people you care about, when they tell you what your feelings about your body should be.

Tumblr is full of confident people, beautiful people, young people, but it's just another website. If you run into stuff that seems like it's shaping you too much there's nothing wrong with walking away until you find enough counterbalancing influence. Sometimes the internet is a lifesaver so you don't feel alone, but there's so so much unfair policing.

Dysphoria is definitely a spectrum, but the discussion is different depending on who you speak to. Anyone dominating the narrative in a given place doesn't necessarily steer overall society's opinion on things, or medical/scientific opinion on things, and definitely not your own opinion on things.

I do see what you are talking about, and other than just "omg no that's not cool" I don't have any advice on the matter. I've been told that too, that I'm doing it wrong, by people who either say it explicitly or through their behavior, but I have my own personal mix of chest issues, genital issues, social hurdles, etc like all of us do.

You still get to script your own identity even when others don't give you a space for it.

Quote from: Ayden on May 12, 2014, 11:47:12 PM
When I first started transition, the Internet was a blessing and a curse. I saw so many things that basically said "if you don't feel X you aren't 'trans enough' and how dare you". My dysphoria had always been my chest. My social dysphoria used to be bad, but I don't care so much....

Susan's helped in that I saw that the tumblr like mindset was not the reality.  I don't know if the conversations are going in the right direction. There were tells for me, but it's hard to boil down human experiences and thoughts to a black and white. We are all grey. My triggers don't match others, even here. On tumblr I'm a 'transtender' either because I don't care so much about my ovaries or because I refuse to 'express my love of feminine things', whatever that means.

I do know that once I stopped listening to 'trans educators' on the Internet I felt better. ..

BTW, thanks for your kind words Ayden. I've also been hurt by some of the net garbage, early on. Since then I have learned a LOT. I have done quite a few trans panels (mostly just a panelist with a very gifted person leading the discussion). Much of the stuff out there is total garbage. I don't think the vast majority of "trans educators" on the net are ACTUALLY trans educators. I do think there are a few people who are capable. Of the young guys, I think of Skylarkeleven and Aiden of A Lion's Fears on youtube.

@Chris Rockk-- I don't think that those who do not connect to the gender binary are extremes. Gender identity is a very complex issue that I expect is over the head of the vast majority of tumblrs (tumblretts? ) out there. I'm sure that some people who may feel they are transgender at some point, may not be. OTOH, identity is not to be questioned. So if someone says they are transgender, I'm of the opinion that this viewpoint needs to be respected. I don't feel it is up to people on tumblr to make the decisions on other people's identity. Transgender is an umbrella term covering many different identities. Even some people who are drag kings and queens may actually using these outlets as a way of handling their gender dysphoria in a safe space.

There are many types of gender dysphoria and I am very opposed to a way of discussing this which may unfairly target less binary individuals who are perhaps less articulate/ or less capable of expressing their feelings.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on May 13, 2014, 01:12:47 AM
I don't think that those who do not connect to the gender binary are extremes. Gender identity is a very complex issue that I expect is over the head of the vast majority of tumblrs (tumblretts? ) out there. I'm sure that some people who may feel they are transgender at some point, may not be. OTOH, identity is not to be questioned. So if someone says they are transgender, I'm of the opinion that this viewpoint needs to be respected. I don't feel it is up to people on tumblr to make the decisions on other people's identity. Transgender is an umbrella term covering many different identities. Even some people who are drag kings and queens may actually using these outlets as a way of handling their gender dysphoria in a safe space.

No, I do not think nonbinary individuals are extreme at all.  (I am a drag queen myself on occasion.)

I was more referring to people making death threats to each other on Tumblr.  The arguing has to stop over there.

Okay Chris Rockk, I would agree with you there!!! I don't read that type of nonsense. I have a very short attention span for Tumblr and folks who can't or don't bother to articulate their views. I think there are a few good blogs on tumblr but they do exist.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on May 13, 2014, 01:12:47 AM
BTW, thanks for your kind words Ayden. I've also been hurt by some of the net garbage, early on. Since then I have learned a LOT. I have done quite a few trans panels (mostly just a panelist with a very gifted person leading the discussion). Much of the stuff out there is total garbage. I don't think the vast majority of "trans educators" on the net are ACTUALLY trans educators. I do think there are a few people who are capable. Of the young guys, I think of Skylarkeleven and Aiden of A Lion's Fears on youtube.

There are many types of gender dysphoria and I am very opposed to a way of discussing this which may unfairly target less binary individuals who are perhaps less articulate/ or less capable of expressing their feelings.

--Jay

I think people like you are who we need on panels. There is so much information out there that is not only faulty but hurtful. Unfortunately I have met other trans folk who fall into the same pitfalls that the anti-trans folks do. I had three guys and one woman tell me that if I was trans I would XYZ. I won't post it because it was very triggering for me when I desperately needed help.

There a lot of 'binary' trans people who deserve to know that we are not a diagnosis. We are not just "sexually confused" or "sexually dysfunctional" because we are attracted to certain characteristics. We are not "pretenders" because we don't cut or attempt suicide. Dysphoria is such a broad spectrum that we can't limit it to any one thing.

Quote from: campenella on May 12, 2014, 07:21:26 PM
I've been wanting to discuss this with others who could talk about it in a non tumblr environment. I'm not in tumblr's age range of transition (late 20's) and I've had formal education and online education about Gender, Sex and Transsexuality vs ->-bleeped-<-. I'm not a person studying in the field or anything, but it really bothers me when I still hear the narrative of All or None dysphoria about genitals. I do tend to agree with folks who say that any dysphoria can be big or small and sometimes the littlest things can make you feel horrible for days on end. I have a mix of big and small triggers for it myself, mainly chest dysphoria but my bottom isn't as bad because it's the lack of visual than the lack of feeling something. It actually bothers me more to use stps, pack n plays bc it highlights that foreign feeling.  My feeling is that I'm angry about it like my chest, but more like HRT has done good stuff for me and I hope it continues to do good stuff for me until I have meta. Penetration isn't a big deal for me, but I tend to think that people who have disassociation feelings about it tend to be more critical of trans men who don't have it.

I also think Social Dsyphoria isn't talked about as much regarding physical appearance. Like I'm in a category where I'm andro but I'm short and my personal style is very 'teacher/librarian' so sometimes people misgender me before they even hear my voice. Having that disconnect in social situations even if you're not being questioned can ruin a perfectly good day for you. So many times have I had this instinctive fear of going to a bathroom when I know I'm passing and just feeling like everyone was looking at me on the way there and back. I don't know-sometimes I chalk it up to it being young people who see things as a bigger contrast of Physical dysphoria to worry about and sometimes I think that once you start to edge towards your thirties and aren't in college anymore you start to become invisible in trans discussion. I think also that many young people think that dysphoria makes you unable to have a sexual relationship and that dysphoria is a constant thing when in fact it fluctuates.

What do you all think about Dysphoria as a spectrum? Do you think that discussion is going in the right direction right now?

I feel very similarly to how you feel in a lot of ways, as do probably a lot of other trans people out there who are not on Tumblr.  I am also in my late 20s, and my dysphoria is kind of strange because I am asexual.  I also feel like I am using a foreign object if I pack.  I only STP because it makes me feel at ease in public restrooms, and it saves on toilet paper.  I do want bottom surgery at some point, but really it's such a financial burden that I am aware that I have bigger fish to fry.

As far as I know, doctors and psychologists do not consider anyone less trans for not having the worst case of bottom dysphoria, nor has anyone I have known IRL.  I think this is mostly an internet problem, as the internet has a way of bringing people outside the norm together, for better or for worse.

Quote from: Ayden on May 13, 2014, 01:59:30 AM
I think people like you are who we need on panels. There is so much information out there that is not only faulty but hurtful. Unfortunately I have met other trans folk who fall into the same pitfalls that the anti-trans folks do. I had three guys and one woman tell me that if I was trans I would XYZ. I won't post it because it was very triggering for me when I desperately needed help.

There a lot of 'binary' trans people who deserve to know that we are not a diagnosis. We are not just "sexually confused" or "sexually dysfunctional" because we are attracted to certain characteristics. We are not "pretenders" because we don't cut or attempt suicide. Dysphoria is such a broad spectrum that we can't limit it to any one thing.

. 

Yikes!  I am sorry people have been saying these things to you.  Diagnosis is kind of an odd issue.  On one hand, you need it for treatment (specifically, DSM codes are often needed for insurance purposes).  On the other hand, it sounds unpleasant.  There is a reason they took the word "disorder" out for the DSM-V, and nowhere in there does it say the word "binary," and suicide attempts were never a part of the criteria, either, so... I guess what I am getting at is whatever jerks say these things aren't even getting the medical information right.  I actually would like to see a standard of care for nonbinary individuals so they could transition in a way that meets their needs whatever those might be and get it covered under insurance.

I can do a decent presentation at this stage, but only because I have had good mentoring. I agree re the idea that trans people can be as bad as anti-trans people. They get these notions which have zero to do with real understanding of what transgender is. They take their own experience, and perhaps those of a couple friends and then try and extrapolate to what transgender actually is.

No you don't need to cut or be suicidal. True the incidence of these things is scary high in the trans population, but it won't be helped out by people spewing out false info on what transgender is. People can have a feeling of disconnection that is persistent, but not easily explained. I am lucky to be able to articulate this stuff. But not everyone can. What ends up happening is they sometimes will say something like "I like to dress in male clothes". It may not at all be the be all and end all of their experience, but this is all they are able to articulate. I wouldn't  want to watch their youtube videos or read their blogs (but have run across them), but that's how they can talk about their feelings. 

@Chris Rokk, sadly there are quite a lot of therapists and doctors who have as limited a concept of transgender as some of the yahoos on tumblr (if not worse in some cases). Some of their misconceptions are: must be straight, binary, will live as X gender, passes some RLE,  has severe dysphoria; knew early in childhood, wants to present "typically", etc. etc.

--Jay

Quote from: ChrisRokk on May 13, 2014, 02:40:48 AM
I feel very similarly to how you feel in a lot of ways, as do probably a lot of other trans people out there who are not on Tumblr.  I am also in my late 20s, and my dysphoria is kind of strange because I am asexual.  I also feel like I am using a foreign object if I pack.  I only STP because it makes me feel at ease in public restrooms, and it saves on toilet paper.  I do want bottom surgery at some point, but really it's such a financial burden that I am aware that I have bigger fish to fry.

As far as I know, doctors and psychologists do not consider anyone less trans for not having the worst case of bottom dysphoria, nor has anyone I have known IRL.  I think this is mostly an internet problem, as the internet has a way of bringing people outside the norm together, for better or for worse.
. 

Yikes!  I am sorry people have been saying these things to you.  Diagnosis is kind of an odd issue.  On one hand, you need it for treatment (specifically, DSM codes are often needed for insurance purposes).  On the other hand, it sounds unpleasant.  There is a reason they took the word "disorder" out for the DSM-V, and nowhere in there does it say the word "binary," and suicide attempts were never a part of the criteria, either, so... I guess what I am getting at is whatever jerks say these things aren't even getting the medical information right.  I actually would like to see a standard of care for nonbinary individuals so they could transition in a way that meets their needs whatever those might be and get it covered under insurance.

That was years ago so I hope they are not pedaling that now. My doctor does not adhere to the DSM with me she had said, and I quote "it's bull->-bleeped-<- for men like you. You know you are a man and ->-bleeped-<- them." 

I think being trans is so complicated that we can't have a diagnostic on it. Not really. Human science is a goddamn puzzle and we are lucky to know what we do about the human brain.

I'm not angry anymore about what I was told. I'm glad that guys don't have to hear it. I'll take that weight and I will gladly bear it. I'm strong enough to take that abuse. But if it was my brothers,  my heart would break if they heard that. One of my brothers was put on meds for having "unnatural homosexual thoughts". I think I saw red for a week and I was ready to take a plane down to confront my dad.

The binary folk tale we are told is BS. Gender, sexuality, everything, what we are told is a fairy tale. The reality is so much more than that


Edit to add: and again, Jay speaks better than I can. Really, man, you have to stop stealing my thunder! ; )

Seriously. What he said. I owe him a box of chocolates right now.

Quote from: Rossiter on May 12, 2014, 11:05:44 PM
Yeah I agree with this. To me social dysphoria seems like a separate category from physical dysphoria, to the extent that it might have a completely different cause. Plus, I don't know...I don't see how you can base your identity around whether other people see you a specific way, because people are sometimes gonna see you in ways you don't see yourself, that's just a fact of life.

Someone on another site said something like "I just want to be seen as a man who happens to have a female body" and that doesn't make sense to me. What does it mean for them to be a man if they live as a woman and don't have a problem with the biological side of it, just the gender roles? There are lots of aspects of gender roles that suck regardless of your gender and most people aren't 100% comfortable with all of them. But not being comfortable "living as ___" seems like more of a problem with society than with your gender. Maybe identifying as something else is the best way to deal with that discomfort in some cases, but I don't think it should be conflated with being trans.

I think that Social Dysphoria isn't just 'Oh man they are misgendering me', but more like that truly anxious feeling or fear that can happen in a public space if you are already having physical dysphoria or it can trigger physical dysphoria. Going to the bathroom, talking to a new person/group of people who do not know you. Sometimes It can be brushed off, especially if you need to just move on. Dealing with it can be a little difficult even if you have the tools.

I agree that people need to be comfortable with the idea of gender noncomformity without taking up space in trans discussion. I get really heated about identity politics because so many people tie being trans as an extension of being gay, a choice or political.  My gender presentation when I'm with people who know me trends to be very dapper/soft fem but I know it's got nothing to do with my gender-it's just clothes.

Quote from: aleon515 on May 12, 2014, 11:44:51 PM
There is a huge spectrum of dysphoria and dysphoric feelings. I think there is much  misinformation on tumblr that makes it sound like certain people who do not have severe physical dysphoria that they are not trans. This is disrespectful and just plain wrong. There is an internal sense of gender that may not really be easy to understand. If your  sex assigned at birth and internal sense of gender are not matching you are trans and also "trans enough". You may or may not be what is termed "transsexual" (I don't personally identify with that term-- though I have had surgery and am on T), but not all transgender people are transsexual. I really don't like this "transcum" type of stuff that goes on. But I tend to think tumblr is a vast wasteland with a few good blogs. They completely disregard (or are unaware) of the internal sense of gender and confuse this for gender roles.

--Jay

A couple of years ago some of the extreme sides helped me understand the issues and what I agreed with and disagreed with, but many people were hypocrites, especially to nonbinary people they did not like and it's always the same conversation so I quit looking at it. I view myself as a stealth transsexual guy, but people understand the term transgender better with FTM peeps  in real life.  It's funny because I've had to explain a few times to my mother after I started passing better and started to be able to dress down a little more that my gender presentation isn't my gender. I used to 100% masc try to pass at all times because I was pre-T and now I have a little leverage.