My personal life post transition has been great. My work life...

Earlier this year, I had a job where my boss kept telling me, "Paige you have to assert yourself in the conversation. Jump in and participate." Which bothered me because 1) I like to know what I'm talking about when I speak and in this case there were things in play I didn't understand yet. 2) rightly or wrongly I associate the type of assertiveness my boss was advocating as a male trait which lead to dysphoria, which lead to anger on my part (though at the time I didn't understand what was going on) which lead to me getting fired.

That sucked, but I got a new job.

My new manager who started on the same day as me keeps projecting feelings on me that I don't hold. Anger, annoyed, upset because of my body language and tone? I feel none of these things. I know I am deadpan in my approach during presentations because I don't want to be emotionally invested in my code. I want to be objective and open to criticism. That and when I've been more flamboyant in my delivery, my message seems to get lost.

I do tire quickly of people being over dramatic. Yesterday, I was explaining to this same boss some code I'd written two weeks ago and barely remembered. I asked for time to prepare a presentation so I could remember what I'd done but he wouldn't give me the time. He wanted to know about it now. So I was picking apart what I'd done while I presented which also contributed to my dead pan delivery. At one point I said, "Because we can't use [technobabble]..." he pushes back away from me in his chair throws his arms out and cries, "We can't use [technobabble!]" at which point I did give him a "Are you quite done?" stare because he cut me off mid-sentence and because of his over the top display. Note: that cutting me off is a frequent problem.

I have also brought up some things, in observations of conflicts with directions I'm being given. Yesterday, he said, "We'll circle back to that," dismissing me and we never circled back. I was not given an opportunity to speak during the meeting we were having to recap our last two weeks of work. Which was fine by me because those two weeks sucked for me for another reason.

There's another developer on the team who wanted to use some code that I observed didn't support the back button in IE 11 and didn't work at all in an IE 8 demo. I notified him of this and he ignored me. Later my what I felt and feel were only technical concerns was cast by this man as "Paige doesn't want to use this because she doesn't like it!" Didn't like it? No, I had technical concerns that he didn't answer. This event also lead to me getting a lecture about "Trust, Respect and Communication are the three pillars of an agile team".

I don't get what's going on. I don't get why people are reacting to me in this way, projecting these things and thoughts onto me. In my personal life I get by great! I have a lot of friends and enjoy socializing. At work, it's like I have Aspergers only at work: I don't understand people's reactions to me, I don't understand why some are so sensitive over their code and tools when I ask what I think are innocuous questions, I don't understand why I'm being cast as this big meanie.

I sent a message off to HR last night before leaving. When I got fired HR asked me why I didn't notify them of the problem my boss and I were having. Thought simply never occurred to me. So that's why I notified HR now, hoping to find some help when I go back in today cause something is messed up. I mean, I caught my boss referring to another team member as "childish". That from a man who won't stop saying we need to have "Respect, Trust and Communicate with each other". He has no control over that person's employment. My employment on the other hand... well, he threatened it.

I feel these managers are setting me up to be fired at this point. It's like I'm being brought on so these new managers can get the experience of firing someone. Last time I understood the reason and felt at fault, this time I don't and I don't feel as responsible as I'm being blamed for and I feel what missteps I am making I'm making because of duress. I'm sick and tired of this abuse!

tl;dr; I'm being accused of having feelings or thinking things I am in fact not feeling or thinking at work. I'm routinely cut off or ignored. I don't understand why when I have technical concerns, they are cast as me not "Trusting, Respecting or Communicating" or as me not liking something.

If there are former developers in my audience here, I am curious do you have suggestions for alternative careers?

I also did put this under the MTF header because I'm curious as heck if some of my problems have things do with being a woman in a male dominated environment.

Welcome to the wonderful world of being a woman. It sucks doesn't it. You sure you wanna continue doing it?

In all seriousness, there's a new language and ethic code that females need to learn in all facets of life... ESPECIALLY in the workplace. There's a certain "protocol" if you will to presenting your ideas. They're all pretty hard to explain over a computer though, as much of them require proper body language and tone of voice. It's one of those wonderful hard to describe things that makes feminism attractive to females.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 14, 2014, 05:10:46 AM
Welcome to the wonderful world of being a woman. It sucks doesn't it. You sure you wanna continue doing it?

In all seriousness, there's a new language and ethic code that females need to learn in all facets of life... ESPECIALLY in the workplace. There's a certain "protocol" if you will to presenting your ideas. They're all pretty hard to explain over a computer though, as much of them require proper body language and tone of voice. It's one of those wonderful hard to describe things that makes feminism attractive to females.

Oh how I've wished there was just one girl doing my job with me that I could observe so I could figure out that protocol...

To further elaborate, one cannot be ran over as you have experienced. Doing this will usually have you looked at as somebody who cannot be effective at work. You've been terminated due to this as you have explained. However, a woman should *never* be too assertive when presenting an idea, because as any of us with experience know, this will be met with resistance due to the threat of a female (or a "man who has lost his man card", if you're worried about this being a trans issue) showing him up. The man card is important in the male macho ego club. Or MMEC as I like to call it (as of right now).

There's a fine line. One can definitely be effective in presenting ideas without sounding like a biya-biya. Instead of rolling your eyes and using a passive aggressive stance to show what a true a-hole he's being (which may be justified), ask questions. "Do you think this creates a problem?" "What happens if...?" are wonderful things to do. This is just one of the gajillion rules to female etiquette that we need to learn, which we missed out on because we weren't raised in that environment.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 14, 2014, 05:18:10 AM
"Do you think this creates a problem?" "What happens if...?" are wonderful things to do.

I like that. Better than the advice I got from a ciswoman: apologize all the time.

My inclination is to figure out the next step from asking a question and have a "yeah but what if" moment here, however I think I need to stop myself from doing that. I gotta make some step of progress first before looking for more disaster.

Apologizing a lot is a good tactic too. But you have to learn how to apologize. Don't just say "I'm sorry" and shut up. Say "Well I just thought blah blah blah *2 second pause*, I'm sorry". This really only works with men, though. Doing it to women will get "Why are you sorry?"

Women who express themselves too forcefully are bossy bitches. Women who don't express themselves enough are walk overs. Where is the fine line? It is a constantly moving mark in the sand depending on who you're dealing with and about what. Being ignored for pointing out the obvious is a common experience. Having a great idea which is ignored, except for when some other guy says exactly the same thing, is also not unheard of.

Like Alaina says "welcome" to the world of being a woman. It's probably not helped by being in a very male dominated office and field of work.

Once saw this on a mug: "Women have to do twice the work to get half the recognition."

Obviously I haven't seen how you interact but.... really? Sounds like he is projecting angry, persecutory feelings onto you because ultimately he feels angry and persecutory toward you. Probs a transphobe or a misogynist or both. :/

Unfortunately the only way to fix that directly is probably to suck up to him. Give him compliments for having a fat head. lol. And validate his opinions rather than asserting yours, cuz he won't listen anyway. Passive language, questions, calling attention to problems while acting like you don't know what you are doing... hopefully supervision for him instead of any of that but yeah... you can't win with aomeone like that. :/

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 14, 2014, 05:51:21 AM
Apologizing a lot is a good tactic too. But you have to learn how to apologize. Don't just say "I'm sorry" and shut up. Say "Well I just thought blah blah blah *2 second pause*, I'm sorry". This really only works with men, though. Doing it to women will get "Why are you sorry?"

Ah, missing details from the earlier advice I got perhaps?

Suns up. Going to have to start getting ready here. At least being me comes naturally in my social life. Kind of a disappointment that I'm still going to have to manufacture a work persona and react like, "I have received this output, in my estimation I must give this output formatted this way for effective communication."

But maybe that's a common thing for all people?

Thank you.

I just hope I get the time to digest things until the process becomes more reflexive. I'm being patient now, so that's something. I'm going to give er' the old college try, hoping it will come more naturally than I know. Still, with all the crap... The projection, the hypocrisy, I'm not even at work yet and I already want to go home... I'll make these adjustments for my part, I just hope I get some help with this stuff being added to me and I'm not told, "tough" by HR.

*dread*

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 14, 2014, 06:00:11 AM
Like Alaina says "welcome" to the world of being a woman. It's probably not helped by being in a very male dominated office and field of work.

I get along fine with women, even at the past job I had where I got to work with women engineers. Straight men are my problem.

Quote from: sad panda on May 14, 2014, 06:16:41 AM
Obviously I haven't seen how you interact but.... really? Sounds like he is projecting angry, persecutory feelings onto you because ultimately he feels angry and persecutory toward you. Probs a transphobe or a misogynist or both. :/

Unfortunately the only way to fix that directly is probably to suck up to him. Give him compliments for having a fat head. lol. And validate his opinions rather than asserting yours, cuz he won't listen anyway. Passive language, questions, calling attention to problems while acting like you don't know what you are doing... hopefully supervision for him instead of any of that but yeah... you can't win with aomeone like that. :/

I was thinking he might be a narcissist and this advice might still might work.

You're welcome hon. I hope you have a better day than you  think you'll have. I know that anxiety of going to a job with uncertainty sucks.

Feel free to holler at me any time. Message me on FB if you'd like.

And btw, yes, everybody has certain social rules they should follow. They're just a lot more relaxed when you're part of the MMEC!!!

Paige, hate to tell you this, but cisgender people have to deal with nasty work environments, not just trans folks. The way people treat you may have to do with how you fit into the culture, their prejudices about you, or just a generally dysfunctional work environment.

My advice, which as usual you can take or leave:
* Can you make a friend at work whom you can go to for an objective view?
* Have you read any books on how to deal with a difficult boss? There are a number of good ones. Might help.
* I thoroughly applaud your going to HR. If anyone gives you flack, you can couch it in terms of "I was looking for advice on how better to fit in" or something like that.

Good luck Paige. Please let us know how this turns out.

Paige-

I'm sorry that you are going through this. My first inclination if I were you is to begin to thoroughly document and communicate everything. That code that you found the issue in with the back button? Maybe an email should have been sent to the developer with your observations, with your boss as a cc.

If they are going to play the game of "marginalize Paige" then it's fair for you to fight back by documenting your decisions, actions, and observations with a paper trail. And be sure to keep copies of what you document available off site in case you get into trouble at work and need the evidence to support yourself.

~Eva

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 14, 2014, 08:06:12 AM
Paige, hate to tell you this, but cisgender people have to deal with nasty work environments, not just trans folks. The way people treat you may have to do with how you fit into the culture, their prejudices about you, or just a generally dysfunctional work environment.

True, the other cisfolk gotta deal with this guy too. I still think the problem is our leaders narcissism.

Quote from: Eva Marie on May 14, 2014, 08:20:51 AM
Paige-

I'm sorry that you are going through this. My first inclination if I were you is to begin to thoroughly document and communicate everything. That code that you found the issue in with the back button? Maybe an email should have been sent to the developer with your observations, with your boss as a cc.

If they are going to play the game of "marginalize Paige" then it's fair for you to fight back by documenting your decisions, actions, and observations with a paper trail. And be sure to keep copies of what you document available off site in case you get into trouble at work and need the evidence to support yourself.

~Eva

Trying to get a paper trail going. I did send an e-mail out about the button. Ended up being one of the many things I've done wrong, so I've been told. "Trust Paige! Trust!"

Not sure if anyone suggested this. You could do a dot point on everything that has happen and what you have down and present it to you boss.

I had to do this just recently since I had a project I was working on as a group and was thrown under a bus by a teammate. Honestly tho this was for college so dealing with academia is a bit different, but listing out what you have done and what they have done can help clear things up.

It sounds like the guy you're having issues with is somebody who has been around a while and has established "trust" with the boss. You're new, so you're working on a reputation. Don't be that new girl that goes and tells on everybody (especially not the person who the boss trusts) over everything. That's just not going to work. Sometimes you simply have to kiss ass a little bit (in a non noticeable way) to get a good reputation. Since he seems to garner so much prestige in the company, if the project fails it'll be on him. That way, if he blames the new kid, he's going to look silly (spoiler: he probably wont blame the new kid).

As was pointed out, it was a very good decision to go to HR about this problem; that is, after all, their job.

Quote from: Misato on May 14, 2014, 04:55:29 AM
tl;dr; I'm being accused of having feelings or thinking things I am in fact not feeling or thinking at work. I'm routinely cut off or ignored. I don't understand why when I have technical concerns, they are cast as me not "Trusting, Respecting or Communicating" or as me not liking something.

Part of me wants to say well, whenever he cuts you off, just throw this rhetoric of 'Trust, Respect and Communicating' right back in his face. 'You cut me off, which isn't great communicating skills, shows a great lack of respect and invalidates my trust in you. Tell me again... who's violating these pillars?' Get called out on this? 'I'm just trying to be assertive!"

Perhaps this is why I carry the label of 'bitch'.

(I in no way suggest this actions; merely, I just wanted to empathize with your frustration towards the situation.)

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 14, 2014, 03:17:19 PM
It sounds like the guy you're having issues with is somebody who has been around a while and has established "trust" with the boss. You're new, so you're working on a reputation. Don't be that new girl that goes and tells on everybody (especially not the person who the boss trusts) over everything. That's just not going to work. Sometimes you simply have to kiss ass a little bit (in a non noticeable way) to get a good reputation. Since he seems to garner so much prestige in the company, if the project fails it'll be on him. That way, if he blames the new kid, he's going to look silly (spoiler: he probably wont blame the new kid).

Actually he started the same day I did. He's a Agile Process Evangelist and his dictating methods have been rubbing other stakeholders in the project the wrong way too, where the resulting push back is frustrating him. I'm just someone he can and seems inclined to terminate.

I don't want to tell on everybody but holding my tongue and trying to handle it myself is how I got myself fired from my last job.

Nothing today from HR and the guy even brought our department manager in on the e-mail I sent. Silence... all day. Day went well, I remembered your recommendation while we were moving tables and we created a trip hazard by running some power and network cables across the floor. I asked the guy, "Do you think that we should press the tables against the wall so people won't risk tripping over these?" And seriously, this forum popped in my head as I made the question. He mulled it over for a minute then decided that the tables were "good enough" where they were. I accepted that as his answer and left it alone.

We shall see what tomorrow holds. For now, I have a write-in to go to.

Wait a tick, new post:

Quote from: PoeticHeart on May 14, 2014, 03:33:23 PM
As was pointed out, it was a very good decision to go to HR about this problem; that is, after all, their job.

Part of me wants to say well, whenever he cuts you off, just throw this rhetoric of 'Trust, Respect and Communicating' right back in his face. 'You cut me off, which isn't great communicating skills, shows a great lack of respect and invalidates my trust in you. Tell me again... who's violating these pillars?' Get called out on this? 'I'm just trying to be assertive!"

Perhaps this is why I carry the label of 'bitch'.

(I in no way suggest this actions; merely, I just wanted to empathize with your frustration towards the situation.)

My cis girlfriend gave me the same advice of throwing his words back in his face. I'm trying to be kind about any action along those lines. However, I'm poised to say that I have every reason to believe I'll be successful in his process because he's just adding more process to the process I was in for 8 years. Putting it as he's adding more process, is going to goad at him. But it also says he'll get what he wants out of me.

OH!  I did have a delightful moment where this wonderfully awkward woman came over to the new space we moved into today. She got mad asking, "How long are you going to be in this space? I was told two weeks but now I'm told that it might be longer. That's fine, but you shouldn't say two weeks if you don't know it's actually going to take two weeks." As I watched the guy listen, I just sat looking at the woman thinking, "I love you." I also gotta say, that he didn't try to school her makes me wonder if maybe something was said to him about his attitude that I'm not privy to. But again, tomorrow carries with it the risk of being interesting.

Hmm... lots of nuances. If you can, do what you can to earn your superiors trust. You may have to in order to be able to go to him with issues like this. Since the guy has been there as long as you have, the girl that asked how long you guys will be there probably has seniority over him.

But he's definitely a proud card carrying member of the MMEC. Just work with the guy, let others see you're working with him. Usually their stubbornness will hang themselves. Only report something that you know is going to cause a critical failure.

It is a fine line. The more you worry about these things, the more they may influence you negatively.

I dunno, being seen as a bossy bitch does not really bother me. It is akin to when people saw me as a male a******. You either get me or you don't. The cream rises to the top. I would rather be heard than universally loved.

Nothing the rest of the week. The guys attitude did seem to change somewhat. He's still got a bent of entitlement but, at least he left me alone.

Is frustrating. I thought they were making a bad design decision at work today so instead of saying, "I don't think that's a good idea to..." I put it as, "Do you think that what's being proposed is going to be confusing," and then sat back and watched as the idea I planted spread around the boys as though the though was their own.

I can't help but wonder if having to behave like this is a component of the glass ceiling? We gals gotta give our ideas to men because they get all offended or dismiss us otherwise...