My name is Slimm, and I am nonbinary trans. I've thought about hormone therapy for a very, very long time, and it's something I very much want to do, but I would like to see a therapist to get real, professional advice on whether it's the best plan for me. I've spent a long time putting my needs off and telling myself that I couldn't really know, and it's time to really take myself seriously. The first step to doing that, then, was to come out to my parents, to see if I could get their support (and financial assistance) in making therapy (& possibly hrt?) happen.

Around the start of the new year, I sent an email to my dad about my gender identity. I explained that I was never comfortable with my assigned gender, but I'd also attempted to fit in as the opposite binary gender, and trying to take myself seriously and "pass" made it more stress than it was worth. I'm most comfortable being nothing at all, or switching between the two when the mood strikes. His response was... fairly reasonable, in that he was comfortable "dealing with me the way I am, if I could continue to deal with him the way he was," but also showed that he didn't entirely understand what I was saying. I didn't request any change of pronouns or name (even though my friends all use "they" pronouns for me and a different name for me than my birthname), only acceptance, and I thought I had gotten it.

Now, today, I tried to come out to my dad again, to breach the subject of hormone therapy. I told him I'd been thinking about it for years, and had finally decided that it was something I wanted to go through with. I used a trans friend of mine (with his permission, of course) as an example, since he was the only trans person I knew my parents had met. I explained myself very carefully, that all I wanted was to be given permission to do what I need to do to feel good about myself.

My dad's response was very negative. He argued with me that nobody should ever do anything that "makes them feel good"-- that doing what's "right", or what makes their lives "easiest", or that leaves them the most options, is far preferable. He knows I've been dealing with a lot of mental health problems (particularly, being in the mental health system for the first time in my life) this year, and so I asked him whether being suicidal and miserable was preferable to attempting to improve my situation. He proceeded to tell me that he thought my only problem was that I suffer from extreme self-pity, and that by talking to him, I was looking for someone to "validate" my self-pity and tell me that being miserable was a good way to choose to live my life. He also yelled at me that he was entitled to his opinions, and there was nothing I could do to change them, even if those opinions included the fact that his child is an evil evil stupid liberal queer with terminal self-pity problems.

I left him with a suggestion that he figure out what he values more-- the sacredness of his opinions, or his relationship with his child.

I've tried very hard to explain myself in a way that my parents can at least understand, even if they don't accept it, and I don't think I've gotten very far. I think I'm in the unfortunate situation where I have to choose whether to put off my transition-related care until after I'm finished with college (so that I don't give my parents an excuse to cut off my financial support-- which they've threatened me with, multiple times) or to play chicken with my father to see how far along in my transition I can get before he decides to stop paying my tuition. If anything, I think I'm finally beginning to really truly accept that the understanding & acceptance of my parents is not something I will ever obtain, and so I should stop bending over backwards to try and earn it.

Very frustrated, but feeling like the self-discovery was worth it. Still not sure what to do. Ball's in your court, dad.

Hey Slimm

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear things are not going well with your father. Parents do invest a lot of themselves into the gender of their child so sometimes they find it very hard to hear what we need to say, going through some similar stuff myself. Even worse, if you are dependent on him financially then you may be in a bind. There may be ways around it, possibly if he can hear it from someone else, possibly seeing a counsellor about gender issues without that being the "specific reason", etc, etc. Good luck, hopefully you can get insight from others around the site.

Welcome to Susan's    Great to have you here - looking forward to seeing you around the forum.

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Cheers

Grace

Although it's not apparent, I agree with Grace that your parent's reaction is really out of concern for you. Many see their children as part of the "feel good" generation and perhaps rightly so. So it's not surprising that your dad has a hard time distinguishing what you have told him and other decisions.

As Grace suggested, perhaps your dad is open to your seeing a therapist. You would benefit in many ways – having someone to help you work through your issues with your parents, and perhaps later willing to speak with them on your behalf about the nature of gender dysphoria, and that it's not just something you want in order to "feel good."

It may be small consultation, but the fact is he is being forthright with his feeling, while other parents may merely have appeared OK with what you said. You certainly can't predict whether he will ever be OK, but if he is to accept emotionally what you have said, it will take time.

Some thoughts...

Your father sounds an awful lot like mine was when I was in college.  He did soften up quite a bit eventually, but it literally took decades.  I'm guessing dogma trumps reason in his case, and he won't easily be convinced to see things your way in the near future.  Too much conflict with him WILL get you cut off.  I had to finish college on my own, and it was very difficult.

If you're trans, you will always be trans, but an unsuccessful transition ends badly far too often.   People see therapists all the time, trans or not, and I would suggest talking to one as soon as you can.   I would concentrate on finishing college and becoming independent first, so you can become the master of your own destiny without his interference.  Transition is a long process, and a long term plan is in order here.   You are going to be around a long time, and making small sacrifices now is better than making far larger ones later.

Hugs,
Jill

I'm already seeing a therapist (the second one this year), but I've never seen one specifically for gender-related issues. I'm very glad to be doing so, as it's been very helpful to my mental health, and my therapists have repeatedly recommended family therapy sessions, but I don't think my dad would be willing to go through with something like that. Whenever someone presents him with information that doesn't align with his worldview, he dismisses them or turns them into a strawman. Anything to maintain his idea of the world.

I don't have dysphoria-- not in any traditional sense, anyway. My experience as a trans person does not align to the common "have dysphoria --> go to therapy/start transition to alleviate dysphoria --> reach towards a goal of "passing"." As such, it's easier for me to sit back and wait for a time when I can pursue my own health needs-- dealing with the body I have is not a painful experience, merely one that could use improvement.

I understand my father's motivations. He's over 60 at this point, and is definitely an "old man" set in his ways. It doesn't change the fact that he has done a great deal of harm to me by acting "in my best interests" when doing so meant shutting down my ability to make choices and live independently. I'm very ready to cut both of my parents out of my life, and have been for years, but doing so is not worth risking my education right now.

Quote from: slimm on May 16, 2014, 10:55:57 AM
I'm already seeing a therapist (the second one this year), but I've never seen one specifically for gender-related issues. I'm very glad to be doing so, as it's been very helpful to my mental health, and my therapists have repeatedly recommended family therapy sessions, but I don't think my dad would be willing to go through with something like that. Whenever someone presents him with information that doesn't align with his worldview, he dismisses them or turns them into a strawman. Anything to maintain his idea of the world.

I don't have dysphoria-- not in any traditional sense, anyway. My experience as a trans person does not align to the common "have dysphoria --> go to therapy/start transition to alleviate dysphoria --> reach towards a goal of "passing"." As such, it's easier for me to sit back and wait for a time when I can pursue my own health needs-- dealing with the body I have is not a painful experience, merely one that could use improvement.

I understand my father's motivations. He's over 60 at this point, and is definitely an "old man" set in his ways. It doesn't change the fact that he has done a great deal of harm to me by acting "in my best interests" when doing so meant shutting down my ability to make choices and live independently. I'm very ready to cut both of my parents out of my life, and have been for years, but doing so is not worth risking my education right now.

First off, welcome to the family.  This is a family, and now you are part of it.  Welcome!

Second, it is perfectly fine to be non-binary.  You will find a number of us here; so you have a lot of people to bounce your situation around with.

Third, there really is no standard pattern for trans, and especially for us non-binaries.  There will be nobody pointing fingers at you for the direction you need to pursue.

It is good that you are getting therapy.  Even general psychological therapy will help you get a grasp of the issues you need to deal with.  If your parents are paying for this it may be best to go with the flow and get the help you can.  At some point, perchance when you are financially independant and paying for the therapy on your own dime, you wil want to see a therapist with skill in working with gender identity issues.  That may be a future goal.

You have a good plan to get your education finished before cutting ties with your parents and losing financing.  After you are out on your own and not getting their financial support they may be a bit more open to you exploring your gender issues.  In that case you may not really have to fully cut ties.  One big goal of parents is to raise children to be independant.  When you are on your own and living as you after how ever long it takes, you can point out to them that they were successful in raising a child that became an independant adult.

Best wishes for your progress going forward!


Erin

[p.s. I am 61, so am oler than you say your father is - that is NOT old!]

Quote from: slimm on May 16, 2014, 10:55:57 AMI'm very ready to cut both of my parents out of my life, and have been for years, but doing so is not worth risking my education right now.

Uh. Read what you wrote here and reflect upon how selfish and immature it sounds.

Yes your parents have opinions, everyone does.  You don't have to agree with them, but you should respect them.  He is probably even "right", even though it isn't what you want to do.

Because you are still financially dependent upon your parents you are not fully emancipated from them yet. They get a vote on what you do, especially with their money. Once you are on your own you can support whatever lifestyle you want, but beware of "cutting them out of your life", bridges are a lot harder to rebuild after they are burnt.

Quote from: JamesG on May 16, 2014, 02:05:57 PM
Uh. Read what you wrote here and reflect upon how selfish and immature it sounds.

Yes your parents have opinions, everyone does.  You don't have to agree with them, but you should respect them.  He is probably even "right", even though it isn't what you want to do.

Because you are still financially dependent upon your parents you are not fully emancipated from them yet. They get a vote on what you do, especially with their money. Once you are on your own you can support whatever lifestyle you want, but beware of "cutting them out of your life", bridges are a lot harder to rebuild after they are burnt.

You don't get to judge me on my relationship with my parents when you don't know them. Period.

They do get to vote on what I do with their money, which is why I have chosen not to just see a gender therapist or start hormone therapy without bothering to tell them.

I do not subscribe to the notion that my parents deserve my respect and obedience due to their status as my parents. Having a position of power does not mean you will use it wisely; just because two people are capable of making a baby does not mean they are capable of being good parents. I did not choose my parents, and I do not owe anything to people who treat me the way they have. This is not up for discussion.

I'd appreciate less judgement and condescension in the future.

I believe James is responding to the words you wrote relative to your relationship with your parents. He suggested that you read what you wrote, which I have to agree sounds extremely manipulative insofar as you will maintain a relationship with them as long as they pay your expenses. Your response to James only tends to reinforce your dad's opinion of you -- that you suffer from extreme self pity. That may not be the case, but that's how your posting come across to me and others who have seen what you have written. This is valuable feedback!!!
I am new to this site as well, and I find most of the responses to be extremely insightful. I can't assume the people here will agree with me all the time. In fact, that's why I am here. If all I received was positive affirmation, what benefit would I derive?

JamesG
"Uh. Read what you wrote here and reflect upon how selfish and immature it sounds."


Ok everyone this is an emotional topic, but there are lines which cannot be crossed. Advice is fine, but let's temper it a little and remain civil. Personal attacks are against TOS of this site. Judgment has no place here.

I can see that what I wrote can be interpreted a personal attack against Slimm and I apologize. I need to learn how to phrase what I say more carefully. My hope, Slimm, was to provide some feedback in the hope that you might reflect on your words and actions, to be able to better communicate with your dad.

It's fine. It seems this place isn't as friendly as advertised. Probably not the place for me.

Please take a chance and check out some other threads. I'm thinking you may find it really is a friendly place, but, like all places, has a few thorns.

yes i agree judgement is not welcome here. Darling your experience sounds very similar to mine althoigh my father cut me off. I dont think anyone here should be too harsh on you as we are all here to support each other. Take time to think everything over eventhough you have probably already done that, but finances can sometimes give parents or family the thought that they own you and you should live exactly how they want you to live. This is not right. I think a certain level of understanding from each side needs to be built and explored. Then again I am not in your position and I pass no judgememt on anyone here but I do wish you the best and hope you stay on this forum as it helps alot to chat to lokeminded people Best wishes...

Slimm-I'm sorry you received a couple rough responses in response to a really tough issue you are facing. Calling you an evil, evil, stupid, liberal queer with self-pity problems is a bit on the emotionally abusive side of things.

Are you able to put off transitioning until you graduate from college and not financially dependent?

For some people it's not tolerable to wait while others can wait. 

Hopefully you'll give the board another chance. There's some good people here.

I was not specifically criticizing or judging Slimm. I was trying to give her the long term perspective. Sometimes its not nice or what we want to hear but its the truth.

James, it had little to do with what you said and everything to do with how you said it. Support, even tough love support, can be given without resorting to words such as "selfish", "immature", etc. ...that is not support, certainly not the kind endorsed by this site.