QuoteFinal Fantasy VII's cross dressing scene is one of the most memorable in gaming. But as I was analyzing it, I noticed a disturbing trend in how LGBT lifestyle is portrayed not just in this scene, but across gaming as a whole. So what does FFVII's drag scene teach us about the cross dressing community and about the gaming industry as a whole?

Here's a handy link to the Dys4ia game he mentioned.

Quote from: dalebert on May 16, 2014, 01:15:06 PM
Here's a handy link to the Dys4ia game he mentioned.

may I raise the point that bringing up a few games doesn't make EVERY game anti-lgbt, especially when there are many games that don't even bring up LGBT themes in the first place. I can't remember Darksiders, Sonic, Mario, Megaman, Mortal Kombat or many games I own bringing up lgbt at all one way or another


Asking a question like that seems... too vague to register properly, seems like a very bold generalization to bring up even as a question

Well in Dragon Age and Dragon Age II any character can have relationships with any of the major NPC's, male or female. Its was nice finding out when I first played.

I'm not sure if its a good or bad thing that people have to dig pretty deep to find something new to be offended at.

I think, to be fair, video games don't differ enough from other mass media to have a conversation about how good or bad they are about this. They're just as good/bad as movies and television in whatever genre they're about. Action-y games are just as male power fantasy-ish as action-y movies. Rom-coms fail the Bechdel Test just as badly as many dating sims. You get the idea. I mean, even when you look at the places where they're doing good, it's usually the small, independent studios that don't have to suck up to The Man that do the job.

So I don't think the question is, are video games anti-LGBT, but is mass media in general?

Quote from: Shodan on May 16, 2014, 02:35:05 PM
So I don't think the question is, are video games anti-LGBT, but is mass media in general?

Which opens up an even bigger question of how is the media in relation to the overall society?

that's one thing that's pretty cool about the mass effect series is that there are several options throughout the series for same sex relationships, and i think it was done in a good way.

LGBT hardly gets a look in with videogames but there have been a few exceptions, both good & bad.

On the good side we have Mass Effect allowing you to have a same sex encounter, whilst some media sources had a field day with this the more rational gamer knew that this was simply a choice within the game, you had to devote game time to chatting with the character you wanted to bed & in no way was it forced upon the player, you had to seek the relationship & it was dealt with tastefully.

On the bad side we have Driver: San Fransisco, throughout the game you jump into the heads of whichever person is driving & then get to listen to the "humorous" conversations whilst driving.
One of these conversations was between a male & female cop, the female reveals that she used to be a man & the male is disgusted so she blackmails him to "put up" with her situation by saying something like "if you don't do as I say i'll tell everyone I slept with you" It was a couple of years ago so I can't remember word for word.
This conversation enraged me enough to get rid of the game & send an e-mail to the creators to say i'd boycott any sequels.

Quote from: DuckyAlexis on May 16, 2014, 03:25:56 PM
that's one thing that's pretty cool about the mass effect series is that there are several options throughout the series for same sex relationships, and i think it was done in a good way.

I was typing my long post whilst you beat me to my point, Mass Effect quality LGB representation is rare though, can anyone think of a game that represents the T in LGBT??

For those who actually watched the video, he does mention several positive games at the end but points out that they seem overwhelmed by the negative games, many of which he specifically addresses.

I was unable to watch the video due to using a 360 to view this forum, sorry.

You should visit C&VG's website & look at the comments last week on every news piece about Nintendos new game not allowing gay relationships, from what I read there i'd say that the gaming community is generaly accepting of LGB. Unfortunately those that have issues with LGB in games are just as bad as non gamers.

As an entertainment medium videogames have a very long way to in many respects to catch up with the rest of the entertainment industry.
TV, Films & books have no problem raising the topic of sexuality but videogames tend to either handle the subject badly or just play it safe & avoid the topic

Quote from: dalebert on May 16, 2014, 04:32:10 PM
For those who actually watched the video, he does mention several positive games at the end but points out that they seem overwhelmed by the negative games, many of which he specifically addresses.

how is it overwhelming. I cant think of of many games released that even ADDRESS LGBT

I've been playing video games since the 1980s. Ever since I was old enough to hold a controller. I can't think of any video games that are Anti-LGBT, and if there are any, those games should be judged on their individual merits alone.

Now, do LGBT people get enough representation in video games? That's a better question. Most games don't touch the subject, (Mario, Sonic, Metroid, Zelda, on and on and on) and many more modern games leave it up to the player to decide all together (the Mass Effect series and The Old Republic come to mind), which I think is the best (and more creative) choice. I feel transgender representation is ... seriously lacking, and to a lesser extent, female representation is also lacking. But I'd rather not be represented than have it brought up badly any day.

Just this semester I wrote a paper on the problems with the portrayal of females in games and I feel like there's a lot of overlap on the subjects.  First, there is a serious lack of diversity on development teams, but more importantly, it's a very volatile industry.  The budget for video games keeps rising and there is little incentive to take risks.  Unfortunately, taking a positive stance on LGBT issues is still a good way to generate controversy, and unless it is a well established series, the topic is going to be avoided.

Most of the female characters in video games (and forum avatars  ) are there for eye-candy to appeal to the primary consumer demographic; teenage and young to mid-age males.  That is why you have under representation of LGBT characters unless its a fluke of the user character's customization range and story flow.

Well the problem is the primary demographic is not as strong of a majority as people think.  Male gamers have become a very slim majority over female gamers and the demographics also skew much older than popular belief.  The typical gamer has changed dramatically since the 80's/90's but the perception of the typical gamer has remained the same.

It's worth noting that a lot of those games are very badly translated and do not mix with cultures outside of Japan. I've played the Japanese version and I live near the Japanese real life sector 6. A lot of what is portrayed doesn't make any sense when taken from a western perspective.

That being said, there are plenty of games that only have T&A or bad portrayals of LGBT folk. But, there are games that in their original state were very pro LGBT. Persona 4 has a gay male character and his ftm love interest. In the American version they changed a lot of dialogue and added in a few extra scenes to imply that the ftm character was happy as a girl and the gay guy only thought he was gay because of his attraction to the ftm.

The new harvest moon? The Japanese version has gay marriage. The US and Europe got a little squeamish so they took it out. Natsume, the company, still made sure that "cross dressing" was an option for the player.

I could go on, but I have cookies baking and if I'm violating my diet I'm going all the way.

Edit to add: fun fact, Birdo from the Mario series, according the original manual from the 1980s is "biologically male but identifies as female". Birdo is a transwoman with with a boyfriend (Yoshi). Nintendo never retconned it out, they just don't publish it anymore.

All your bases are belong to... us?

A lot of what the video focused on wasn't the lack of representation in most games. He was addressing that when they do have LGBT characters, they're villains or even inhuman monsters. Are folks watching it? I'm getting the feeling that people are responding without having watched it. This post wasn't my opinion on video games. I hardly play many of them to have a strong opinion. I was just sharing a video of a guy who's opinion you might be interested to hear.

We aren't here to actually learn stuff, we are here to opin.   

Watched it, and disagree. He's being overly sensitive. There are plenty of non LGBT villains too. He found a handful of cases over a couple of decades of game development.  It's the economy of character development. If a story does make a point of highlighting a character's gender/sexuality, it is generally either to take advantage of a cultural stereotype ("oooh look deviant behavior") or its a blatant pandering or controversy seeking for publicity.  It's a reflection of the society at large, not some sort of conspiracy.