Quote from: Jolene4ever on August 29, 2007, 12:04:57 AM
All I want is the truth." Are we ever going to get it? I am not going to hold my breath.

You, of course, know the old joke about how to tell if a politician is lying?  His lips are moving!!!!

A few years ago, the University of Georgia ran a study on reactions to gay porn.  They went out and got a group of the most homophobic men they could find (easy to do in Georgia) and a group of men that stated they were neither homophobic nor pro-gay (basically ambivalent).  Using an elastic band around the penis to electronically measure erections they showed each person hardcore gay porn.  To the person, all the homophobic individuals had a much stronger (harder) reaction to the porn than the ambivalent group most of whom had little reaction.  When I last heard of this, there were not enough people studied to present a scientifically valid conclusion as the groups they started with were small and I don't know if the study is still going on.

Beverly

Quote from: Mallard500 on August 29, 2007, 04:58:18 AM
Hey, hey....  as a member of the BDSM community, that IS a crass comment - who want Log Cabin Republicans?!? 

I'm more worried about offending BDSM people than I am about offending Republicans. 

When they are up on the cross, who cares what party they are?!

Quote from: Lisbeth on August 29, 2007, 11:51:47 AM

Quote from: Mallard500 on August 29, 2007, 04:58:18 AM
Hey, hey....  as a member of the BDSM community, that IS a crass comment - who want Log Cabin Republicans?!? 

I'm more worried about offending BDSM people than I am about offending Republicans. 

Oh, no fear... I was joking.  Besides, you should fear Republicans much more - after all, we'll only screw you or hurt you if you want us to!   

Oh, and as to the doing the "first and second thing"...  the comment is made in reference to those so called straight men who believe as long as they're not the passive one, it's 'ok' to "fool around" with other men.

So they can receive oral sex, and it's ok - they're not playing the woman's role. Ditto with penetration - it's still manly if they're the ones doing the penetrating; they just wouldn't want to receive it.

(The above views are not shared by the author!  Any more explanation and we'll have to take it to the Sexuality forums.  )

And so, (returning to the topic...), did anyone else get as creeped out watching Craig talk about 'naughty, nasty boys' as I did...?  That was positively creepy, even for a Republican!   


Scott

Quote from: Mallard500 on August 29, 2007, 01:31:00 PM
And so, (returning to the topic...), did anyone else get as creeped out watching Craig talk about 'naughty, nasty boys' as I did...?  That was positively creepy, even for a Republican!   


Scott

Yes, I did.  This man is truly evil incarnate.  It is not surprising however. It's a common theme we've seen over the past few years. These guys prop up their base by actively discriminating against those of us who can not defend ourselves.  They demonize the minority to prey on people's fears and bigotry.  I am fearful of anyone spewing this sort of hate.

Cindi

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on August 29, 2007, 11:16:18 AM
A few years ago, the University of Georgia ran a study on reactions to gay porn.  They went out and got a group of the most homophobic men they could find (easy to do in Georgia) and a group of men that stated they were neither homophobic nor pro-gay (basically ambivalent).  Using an elastic band around the penis to electronically measure erections they showed each person hardcore gay porn.  To the person, all the homophobic individuals had a much stronger (harder) reaction to the porn than the ambivalent group most of whom had little reaction.  When I last heard of this, there were not enough people studied to present a scientifically valid conclusion as the groups they started with were small and I don't know if the study is still going on.

That's quite interesting Beverly.  I suspect that because their reaction is much stronger AND they are not proud of it, they make assumptions that other people also have the same reaction or that certain groups think like they do (i.e. GLBT groups), when in reality this is far from the truth. 

So basically, these misguided souls go on a quest in order to battle their own inner demons, but focus on external influences (which obviously never solves the problem) instead of focusing internally where the problem really lies.  Perhaps another reason they target us is because we DID focus internally and dealt with the problem where it really lies. 

I suspect that these people aren't very good at actually solving problems (being that they can't even correctly identify or deal with the root cause), so it stands to reason that they also don't make very good politicians in the sense of somebody who solves problems, but they just happen to be very good at influencing others.

Don't mind me.  I'm just kind of thinking out loud here and coming up with my own theories and different angles on the subject, of which may or may not actually be correct.

All politicians rely on the voters having a short memory.  And the voters rarely let them down.

Julie

How true Julie.  Short memories are politicians savior.


Sarah L.

Quote from: Melissa on August 29, 2007, 04:02:26 PM
Don't mind me.  I'm just kind of thinking out loud here and coming up with my own theories and different angles on the subject, of which may or may not actually be correct.

I think your conclusions are pretty close to the preliminary conclusions reached with the study.  Have you ever noticed that most of these do gooders don't want to pass laws to prevent themselves from doing something but always "for the good of their neighbors" instead?  I always tend to think about these individuals that "the woman doth protest too much." 

Beverly

I heard the dude say he is not gay and, strangely, I felt compelled to believe him.  I'm sure he was seeking sex, but I'm thinking that it's some kind of fetish rather than true sexuality.  Like maybe he gets excited and thrilled by just doing the thing he most believes is an awful thing to do.  weird

   I also have the opinion that public bathrooms are not for sex.  I don't like the idea of a parent sending their 10 year old in there just in time for the kid to witness something like that even if it is in a stall.  I also feel like vomiting every time I think of intimacy in such a place.  I've never understood the attraction.

These people are perverts... plain and simple. 

I would not want them around MY kids!

Cindi

Quote from: Melissa on August 29, 2007, 04:02:26 PM

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on August 29, 2007, 11:16:18 AM
A few years ago, the University of Georgia ran a study on reactions to gay porn.  They went out and got a group of the most homophobic men they could find (easy to do in Georgia) and a group of men that stated they were neither homophobic nor pro-gay (basically ambivalent).  Using an elastic band around the penis to electronically measure erections they showed each person hardcore gay porn.  To the person, all the homophobic individuals had a much stronger (harder) reaction to the porn than the ambivalent group most of whom had little reaction.  When I last heard of this, there were not enough people studied to present a scientifically valid conclusion as the groups they started with were small and I don't know if the study is still going on.

That's quite interesting Beverly.  I suspect that because their reaction is much stronger AND they are not proud of it, they make assumptions that other people also have the same reaction or that certain groups think like they do (i.e. GLBT groups), when in reality this is far from the truth. 

Indeed, SO true...!    It's that same sad truth that I base part of my Signiture line on - about how well the Oppressed does oppression...? 

The deeper and darker your closet, the more frieghtning it is to see other people doing "those things" in the open!  One of the best bits of wisdom my Mother shared with me was the simple adage that 'people judge others by themselves.'

Too bad for Sen. Craig - and WAY too bad for the country controlled by people like him.

Scott

I've personally never understood the attraction to having sex in public restrooms or parks. I do find Senator Craig's situation sad, and also others like him when they're caught, however I also believe that these people who rage against gay and trans issues have done significant damage and deserve to have their hypocrisy exposed.

zythyra

Quote from: Mallard500 on August 29, 2007, 01:31:00 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on August 29, 2007, 11:51:47 AM
I'm more worried about offending BDSM people than I am about offending Republicans. 

Oh, no fear... I was joking.  Besides, you should fear Republicans much more - after all, we'll only screw you or hurt you if you want us to!   

I knew you were, which is why, when I said it, my tonge was pressed firmly in my cheek.

Thanks for explaining about the "first and second thing."

Posted on: August 30, 2007, 10:46:08 AM

---

More on Craig's problems:

Craig finding himself alone amid scandal

And this analysis from electoral-vote.com:

QuoteUntil two days ago, all political analysts expected Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID) to glide to an easy victory over former Rep. Larry LaRocco (D). When the news hit that he pleaded guilty to lewd and indecent conduct in the mens' room at the Minneapolis airport in June, all of a sudden, Republicans of all stripes are calling for him to resign (so the Republican governor can appoint a new Republican senator). A compromise could be that Craig finishes his term but does not run for reelection, in which case the seat is safe for whoever wins the Republican primary, which will be bitter since the winner is assured of being elected. If Craig refuses to leave, LaRocco will talk about nothing else the entire year other than Craig's bathroom habits, which might be all he needs. My guess is that Craig will either resign or retire. The pressure on him to get out of there will be enormous.

What's really sad about the entire thing is people abandoning Craig (other than Rep. Barney Frank) like he has leprosy and calling for an ethics committee review but Vitter (R-LA) shows up in a prostitutes contact list and there is no call for ethics review.  So I guess by Senate ethics paying a hooker is a wink, wink, nudge, nudge type of thing.

Senate ethics...now there's an oxymoron for you.

Beverly

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on August 30, 2007, 03:05:02 PM
What's really sad about the entire thing is people abandoning Craig (other than Rep. Barney Frank) like he has leprosy and calling for an ethics committee review but Vitter (R-LA) shows up in a prostitutes contact list and there is no call for ethics review.  So I guess by Senate ethics paying a hooker is a wink, wink, nudge, nudge type of thing.

Please notice that it is the Republicans who are calling for him to resign.  Do you suppose that this has anything to do with it:  Senate Fails to Renew Patriot Act

Quote from: Lisbeth on August 30, 2007, 03:34:37 PM
Please notice that it is the Republicans who are calling for him to resign.

Of course it's the Republikans calling for him to resign.  The Demos are too busy behind their office doors rolling around on the floor, kicking their heels and laughing.

Beverly

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on August 30, 2007, 03:42:46 PMOf course it's the Republikans calling for him to resign.  The Demos are too busy behind their office doors rolling around on the floor, kicking their heels and laughing.

I think Lisbeth is saying that it's not that the republicans are abandoning him, but that they are sticking to the "values" that they say they represent.  By supporting him, that would look REALLY bad for the republican party.  I think it may actually be a move to "save face" more than because they actually dislike what he did.

Quote from: Melissa on August 30, 2007, 03:59:54 PM
I think Lisbeth is saying that it's not that the republicans are abandoning him, but that they are sticking to the "values" that they say they represent.  By supporting him, that would look REALLY bad for the republican party.  I think it may actually be a move to "save face" more than because they actually dislike what he did.

No, not quite.  For those who didn't follow the link to the Tufts Democrats blogspot:

QuoteFriday, December 16, 2005

Senate Fails to Renew Patriot Act

In a stunning move today and a victory for the civil liberties of all Americans, the U.S. Senate today failed to reauthorize several provisions of the Patriot Act, which were deemed as being too intrusive on Americans liberty, freedom, and privacy.

A massive blow to President Bush and the Republican leadership, the Republicans failed to gain enough votes to overcome the bipartisan filibuster led by Senator Russ Feingold, Democrat of Wisconsin, and Senator Larry Craig, Republican of Idaho.

Feingold and Craig have argued that some of the provisions considered most detrimental to the rights of Americans laid out in the Bill of Rights, such as roving wiretaps, and secret warrants which require a library to turn over records of what books people have read, must have enormous safeguards put in place. The Bush Administration has refused to budge on the issue. Unless a last-minute compromise is put in place, the provisions will all expire on December 31.

The Bush Administration immediately (and naturally) attacked Democrats as being soft in the war on terrorism. But the real question is whether, on the heels of the news that Bush had authorized domestic spying (see Mickey's entry below), we can trust the government -- especially this government -- to use these powers with the discretion intended.

This is an ENORMOUS victory for Democrats, for civil liberties, and for everything America stands for. For the moment, at least, we should be deeply thankful that there are still some in Washington, both Republican and Democrat, who stand up for what they believe in and for our country in the face of the smears of our current administration.

That blog post is dated in 2005.  Since then they have not only passed the patriot act with the provisions that they wanted back then, but they have also granted unprecedented powers for snooping to the executive branch.

Hey, I heard some right wingers today on the airwaves saying that we should have compassion and forgive this guy.  Interesting perspective no?

Cindi