Naomi, your post is exactly what I am going thru with my wife.  Only difference is, she has zero tolerance, a no strike policy.. I can do nothing.  Even a colored Chapstick and she's leaving.  And every sentence begins with "you have lied to me for the past 30yrs".    Her mom and sister hate me. I would give her everything, the house, it sells, she gets it all, I don't care.  But until then, I will still provide.  As long as I am working, the mortgage is paid, as are the utilities, phones, etc.  I envy you, in a way.  That you are allowed to at least, maintenance dose yourself.  Some of us get nothing and the mess we become will ultimately force us to start again.  I did not want to relate my story, but if you are on here more than a day, you will see, most of us have this same story to tell.  That doesn't make it any easier, just makes us really connected.

I wish you the best, and hope your wife stays.

Hugs, Paula

to be fair to her you knew this all along, maybe you should have mentioned it before you married her. I know this sounds odd or maybe wrong but if my loved one said she wanted to be male, tbh id freak out!

There has been this weird progression of my gender issues that has always ended up outrunning my disclosures to my wife, everyone of which I thought was an honest assessment at the time. I am only partially through the list below, but I can sort of see where things are headed.

1. Honey, I am really just a normal heterosexual man.
2. Honey, I am really just a normal heterosexual man, with some strange fantasies.
3. Honey, I am really just a normal heterosexual man, who really cares about my appearance, so I want to do a little hair removal, and few other minor cosmetic things.
4. Honey, I am really just a normal heterosexual man, but I got this need to crossdress a little, but that is all there is to it.
5. Honey, I am really just a normal heterosexual man, but I want to feminize my body a little, so I am starting HRT, but I still want to live as a man day to day.
6. Honey, I am still the person you married, but I need to live as a woman. Between us, everything will still be the same. It's not like I am getting a sex change or anything,
7. Honey, I just booked a trip to Thailand. When I come back, we can still live together as lesbians. Just because I will be a woman, that doesn't mean I like guys all of a sudden.
8. Honey, at my high school reunion I ran into my old buddy Mark, and something sort of happened. It's funny, but he is way cuter now than I remembered him.

Quote from: Evelyn K on May 16, 2014, 05:02:27 PM
So well said. When you marry someone you've signed into a spiritual, emotional and lifelong contract. One based on mutual honesty and full disclosure, you each knew what and who you where getting.

For her that contract was broken.

I don't understand how anyone can blame her. To do otherwise is plain selfishness IMO.

Remember, put yourself in her shoes.

I just have to totally agree with this opinion.

As a person whose mariage has so far survived transition (I'm full time with FFS behind me and GRS scheduled in less than 3 months) I think it's worth chiming in here.

I met my second wife in 2005 and very rapidly let her know about my strong attraction for all things feminine. The most obvious manifestation of this was my cross-dressing in private plus the occasional night out in special places catering for guys who like to be girls.

At the time I genuinely had no idea I would end out transitioning, I just knew and accepted that I had a very feminine side that I no longer wished to hide, especially from someone to whom I was  quickly very attracted.

I am pretty sure that telling her about "my true self" from the outset made things a lot easier when I finally started to seriously consider transitioning but it was not the only factor involved. The other major factors were time and perhaps our unusual circomstances, two foreigners living in a country where neither of us has any family other than my three kids (from my first mariage). The latter point means that we count hugely in each others lives.

Regarding time, following the initial "coming out" about my feminine side  in Spring 2005 nothing changed until Sept 2008 when I first started HRT, "just to see".  I stopped and started with HRT a couple of times before finally deciding to really go for it in Sept 2010 ie. more than 5 years after first mentioning my female side. That was a lot of time during which my wife got used to seeing me dressing as a woman and also used to the idea that I might just go full time if it was doable. Among others, this led to me doing FFS as without that, my face was just far too masculine for a successful transition to be achievable.

Always taking a one step forward, observe and adjust approach, I did my FFS in two stages; upper face in summer 2011 and lower face in summer 2012. I should also mention that up until then, I had come out to absolutely no one other than my wife. It was our secret and every significant step I took was discussed well before so that she had time to react and make her feelings and concerns heard.

She found FFS very difficult  as I really looked like I had been hit by a bus after both surgeries, something that was very upsetting and worrying for her. However the results of FFS were also what allowed both me and her to believe that a successful transition might actually be achievable. I came out to my (adult) kids after the first surgery and while they were very surprised reactions went from very supportive to neutral/concerned. There was notably no rejection.

It wasn't until 2012 and my lower facial surgery that I came out to a much larger group of people, all of my close friends, my siblings and my boss at work. That's because the physical changes were by then so obvious that I couldn't hide them anymore. I had also made up my mind that yes, I was going to transition.

Regarding all of this, it is very important to understand that my decision to transition was dependant on my being sure that my life could actually survive a transition ie. that I could continue to earn a decent living, that we didn't lose all our close relationships and that I could actually live as a woman without being perceived as a freak ie. actually comfortably look the part. All of this was at least as important to me as to her and I think she found this reassuring.

Based on all of this, I went full time in my private life in Oct 2012 and have been full time at work since early this year ie. more than 8 years after first talking with her about my feminine side.  That's a long time but it was the time required for both her and I to be sure that this wasn't going to be a disaster for both of us and I have no regrets about that.

As it happens, just having one person in my life who knew who I really was and who fully accepted me as I was already made a huge difference to my life as it was the first time I have ever really felt loved as me.  Everything else has been a bonus and while work has been more of a problem than I had hoped, I am pretty sure at this stage that we will make it through. I am also absolutely certain that my wife will stand by me no matter what. Knowing that is a source of strenght that has helped me through some really tough moments over the last few years .

Based on that, my advice to anyone in a good marriage who is thinking about transitioning, is think long and hard about before rushing into doing things you may regret for the rest of your life. I'm not saying that you should try to continue being someone you are not. I'm just saying you should do everything in your power to bring your wife or partner on board and let her see the real you before any serious talk about transitioning which should only come after there is far more understanding about what that actually means for both partners.

Wishing you the best of luck!
Donna   

Donna

Your story is quite simply inspirational.  Taking your time.  Being honest, open and authentic can make a significant difference.  Preserving your relationship is never easy or guaranteed but there are things you can do to give yourself and your relationship the best chance of success.   So far it is also working for me and your journey provides much additional encouragement.

Aisla

And the reward for best advice ever goes to Donna! Thank you so much for speaking out, D, you've given me a lot to think about.

Naomi, as I said before, though our situations aren't identical,  they are similar. Listen to what Donna had to say, as there is so much hope in it for girls in a situation like ours.

Again, thanks, Donna.

Cheers,
Teg

Quote from: jebee on May 17, 2014, 12:45:28 PM
to be fair to her you knew this all along, maybe you should have mentioned it before you married her. I know this sounds odd or maybe wrong but if my loved one said she wanted to be male, tbh id freak out!

Jebee

Perhaps I am missing something here.  I can't find any statement from Naomi that she has always 'known'   that she was TG or as Evelyn puts it is 'blaming' her partner.   If, like the vast majority of us, Naomi's dysphoria and disquiet grew over time then I can't see how she is to blame for this situation.  People change and people gain understanding and insight into themself.  Granted that this may be well beyond Naomi's partners expectation of what she was signing up for but please don't characterise Naomi and many like us us as duplicitous and manipulative.

Perhaps the narrative isn't as aggressively progressive as April Lee's post but most of us aren't born knowing anything other than our own reality and for many years we assume that everyone is probably similar to us.  Over time we may develop a sense that we are out of place and not quite the same but our journey from there to understanding and defining ourselves as TG, non binary or binary, requiring full or minimal transition is just that, a journey.  It takes time and ymmv depending upon circumstance, age, access to information etc etc

Either way I wish Naomi and her partner all the very best and, if like me, Naomi finds low dose hrt works for her and for her partner then I will be delighted.  if it doesn't then this is potentially a very sad situation if Naomi's relationship does not evolve as has Donna's.

Aisla

Quote from: naomi599 on May 16, 2014, 08:01:51 AM
Last night I got into a heated exchange with my wife and I slipped up that I'm set on transitioning. Now she wants out of the marriage to save her self from associating with a "sodomite" like me... She pulled all the pictures off the wall and couldn't stop crying. I was going to leave to get a place to stay for the night but I couldn't leave her alone for fear she would hurt herself. She constantly asked why I married her and kept saying that we were supposed to grow old together and have kids... Of course I want those things with her as well but she can't throw away her "morals" to be with another woman. I'm now getting ready to brace myself financially. This is happening a year too soon.


This is it... The end of my marriage and she blames me for everything...

I went through a similar situation girly (though we just agreed it was best to part ways, no ugliness really).

We basically had a chat and she was like "You know, I support you and all, and I'm happy you found what works for you, but I didn't sign up to marry a woman.  If this is what you want, that's fine, I'll always love you, but I cannot follow you."

I paraphrase but I can respect that.

It hurts a lot less as time goes on. 

Before I started transition I asked one important question:

"What am I willing to sacrifice to be happy?"

After 22 years of self-loathing, depression, alcoholism, and a whole other strew of problems, my answer was resoundingly "Anything."

It sucks, but sometimes the best thing to do is pick up the pieces and carry on.

-AM

Quote from: Aisla on May 19, 2014, 02:52:32 AM
Jebee

Perhaps I am missing something here.  I can't find any statement from Naomi that she has always 'known'   that she was TG or as Evelyn puts it is 'blaming' her partner.   If, like the vast majority of us, Naomi's dysphoria and disquiet grew over time then I can't see how she is to blame for this situation.  People change and people gain understanding and insight into themself.  Granted that this may be well beyond Naomi's partners expectation of what she was signing up for but please don't characterise Naomi and many like us us as duplicitous and manipulative.

Perhaps the narrative isn't as aggressively progressive as April Lee's post but most of us aren't born knowing anything other than our own reality and for many years we assume that everyone is probably similar to us.  Over time we may develop a sense that we are out of place and not quite the same but our journey from there to understanding and defining ourselves as TG, non binary or binary, requiring full or minimal transition is just that, a journey.  It takes time and ymmv depending upon circumstance, age, access to information etc etc

Either way I wish Naomi and her partner all the very best and, if like me, Naomi finds low dose hrt works for her and for her partner then I will be delighted.  if it doesn't then this is potentially a very sad situation if Naomi's relationship does not evolve as has Donna's.

Aisla

My earliest memories from my childhood was always a memory of me struggling to accept myself as my birth gender and hating my body because it wasn't right. That was at the age of 4. My wife knew before we got married and actually nearly ended the relationship then as well 3 to 4 years back. I went back into hiding myself last time it happened and never mentioned it again until it built up to this year. So yes, she knew about me being trans and my feelings. But there no one to blame in our situation in the end because we are two very hurt people trying to make things work.

Currently my wife is trying to accept who I am but does not want me transitioning completely if we remain married. She has agreed to let me start HRT and begin dressing and wearing makeup only when she isn't home. I also went to a support group in Atlanta on Saturday and had a blast. I didn't fell any pressure there but freedom to express myself. When I returned home, the pressure began to mount again. Apparently my mother, despite telling me she supports me, is working behind my back using witchcraft to "make me more manly" lol. If anything my wife has begun to help me because she filled me in about what my mother was up to... I just hope my wife can make it further because she seems split as well. She is diving deeper into religion as a means of hoping to make me the man she married again.

This whole situation is messy but it's finally organizing itself. A little bit more time and we will see what direction my relationship goes in.

Naomi

Thank you for sharing the additional detail.  Whatever support we can provide is available to you.   We wish you and your partner the very best.   It is of course doubly difficult when other stakeholders inject themselves into an already difficult situation.

Aisla

Quote from: Aisla on May 19, 2014, 02:52:32 AM
Jebee

Perhaps I am missing something here.  I can't find any statement from Naomi that she has always 'known'   that she was TG or as Evelyn puts it is 'blaming' her partner.   If, like the vast majority of us, Naomi's dysphoria and disquiet grew over time then I can't see how she is to blame for this situation.  People change and people gain understanding and insight into themself.  Granted that this may be well beyond Naomi's partners expectation of what she was signing up for but please don't characterise Naomi and many like us us as duplicitous and manipulative.

Perhaps the narrative isn't as aggressively progressive as April Lee's post but most of us aren't born knowing anything other than our own reality and for many years we assume that everyone is probably similar to us.  Over time we may develop a sense that we are out of place and not quite the same but our journey from there to understanding and defining ourselves as TG, non binary or binary, requiring full or minimal transition is just that, a journey.  It takes time and ymmv depending upon circumstance, age, access to information etc etc

Either way I wish Naomi and her partner all the very best and, if like me, Naomi finds low dose hrt works for her and for her partner then I will be delighted.  if it doesn't then this is potentially a very sad situation if Naomi's relationship does not evolve as has Donna's.

Aisla

Very well said, Aisla.

-Teg

Tegan

Thank you for this.  While I am still working on my own situation I have all too often reached a premature conclusion  and then overlayed my narrative or experience on others.  In my case the best advice I have received on Susans is to focus on the journey, not jump to conclusions and to be respectful not just to others but also to myself.  It takes time to understand who you are, what your options are, what works for you and what works for your partner and for your relationship.   Like everything else in the life of a TG person the devil is in the detail, the beauty is in the personal growth and self expression, the journey is more important than what may or may not prove to be your destination.

Aisla

My wife and I have finally made it to a conclusion and middle ground. I will start HRT and express myself when she is not around. I have completely opened up to her these past few days and let her know everything down to the dirty details. She is trying her best to be accepting of me to which I am very grateful. In regards to full time, I will try my hardest to keep her and not go full time. She is learning to love and accept me, and all of me. I love her so much and she has now become an instrumental part of my life in regards to who I am.

She conversed with me regarding the putrid hatred towards the glbt community that she was conditioned to have and has expressed that she is now learning to love everyone and that the hatred is toxic and unhealthy for her. Not only am I evolving to become a better person, she is evolving as well. I still consider myself to be a woman trapped in this mans body, but I will continue to pursue her in our relationship. Now that she understands me fully, the depression has lifted but the dysphoria still remains strong. Time will only tell where the future leads us and we can only hope for a long marriage.

Thank you everyone for all the support and thank you for taking time to help me through these hard times. Everyone here has only sought to help me and it moves me greatly  .

I'm at a very similar spot to what you just said----I was thrown out of the house on Sunday for expressing that I can't see a future where I don't live as myself full time.  When my partner called me Monday morning crying I came back and agreed to a similar part time situation where it's completely hidden from her, no hormones though, she can't process that.  I immediately regretted it and am now sitting here thinking of what to do with my future.  Do you have similar feelings or are you okay in only expressing yourself part time?  How do you plan to cope with that compromise? 
The question I can't get out of my mind is this: "if i'm living as a man to satisfy my gf because she can't accept who i am, does she really love me or just this person I'm being for her?  is it ok to live an entire life for someone else or is the right thing to do to go off and be myself?"

Quote from: shelby513 on May 20, 2014, 08:51:28 AM
I'm at a very similar spot to what you just said----I was thrown out of the house on Sunday for expressing that I can't see a future where I don't live as myself full time.  When my partner called me Monday morning crying I came back and agreed to a similar part time situation where it's completely hidden from her, no hormones though, she can't process that.  I immediately regretted it and am now sitting here thinking of what to do with my future.  Do you have similar feelings or are you okay in only expressing yourself part time?  How do you plan to cope with that compromise? 
The question I can't get out of my mind is this: "if i'm living as a man to satisfy my gf because she can't accept who i am, does she really love me or just this person I'm being for her?  is it ok to live an entire life for someone else or is the right thing to do to go off and be myself?"

I fell in love with my wife almost instantly when I first met her. I knew at the same time that if I started dating her, I would face this day ultimately. I can't honestly say if I can make it as a man/part time woman but I need to try something to keep my wife. I love her too much to loose her and she loves me too much to loose me so that's where the compromise comes in. All I can honestly say is that her allowing me to do this much already is a huge step forward and I can only respect her for that.

I hope things work out for you and your partner.

And I hope everything works out for you and your wife, it sounds like you're both putting in a good effort to compromise and that in itself is huge.

Naomi, I so wish you the strength you are going to need.  I came to the same decision, to try to keep my family, tho, I am able to do nothing.  I am so in love with my wife and family, but four weeks now I have tried to do this and it's just so hard.  I do not know how much longer I can go on.  I pray you have to strength to get thru this.

Naomi and Shelby,

I'm in the same boat as you two. I didn't have the luxury of coming out- instead I was found out when K came across my Susan's account. It was ugly, and I definitely thought that I had lost the love of my life. I slept for a week on a blowup mattress in our spare room, next to the cats' litter box. It was surreal every night laying my head down in that strange room, only yards away from my bed and my wife, things forbidden to me at the time. That week culminated in a breakdown for me, and a trip to a mental facility, where I was placed on 72-hour psychiatric hold. That was the deepest valley so far.

Since I've returned home, things have been better. It's not been easy for her, but she has realized that this isn't something I'm doing to her, but rather something that's happening to us. We've had a few ugly moments, but our love so far has held out. She's seeking her own counseling, reading up on ->-bleeped-<-, and is just generally doing what she can to be here for me. I don't know if she'll be able to commit to the long haul, but I appreciate that she's trying.

I've been seeing a general therapist, but this Friday I'm asking to be transferred to the gender specialist. It's likely I'll start on low-dose E as soon as they let me. I can't keep denying my inner self. It's going to be baby steps, and I intend to keep her in the loop every step of the way. It's my sincere hope that as my outside changes, that she'll realize that the part of me she truly loves is not defined by anatomy. I'm steeling myself, though, for the possibility that she won't be able to live with that. The future is unwritten, and for now the possibility that we might still make it is what gets me through my day.

Either of you, PM me if you'd like. It might help to have someone to speak with who understands what you're going through. I'll offer perspective if I can.

Whether you decide to talk or not, please, take care of yourselves.

Sincerely,
Tegan 

Naomi, Shelby and Tegan

You are each in a very difficult place.  My hope is that you find a path that works for you and your partners.   Absolute honesty with yourself and with your partner is a pre requisite for success,  small steps and conscious choice will similarly help.   Relationships are often problematic but shared love, trust and vision often help you through the difficult times.  For some of us this has worked out far better than we first thought possible and we wish you all the best.  We are only a PM away if you wish.

Safe travels

Aisla