Okay, well, I am pre transition (as most of you know), and only out in a few circles (well, most actually. But lots of people who knew me as female "before" still refer to me as such, which is extremely annoying. Same for my parents. Thought they were accepting, but now they just ignore the whole issue as if it's nothing), and I met this amazing, but also very shy, girl lately.
Her shyness makes it hard for me to read her, but I THINK she might feel things for me. Beyond 'just friendship'. I know she is okay with me being trans (Obviously she knows, as I'm pre T), and sees me as a guy completely, albeit a transguy.

I really like her as well. As in like-like her. But I am a total love-dork. I have only had a relationship ONCE, which was with a guy (and he initiated it). Later I've had a bunch of guys crush on me, but because they loved the female-me I turned them all down and told them honestly I didn't feel it back for them. I have NEVER initiated a relationship out of my own, because of fear of rejection (and that being trans was like my biggest secret back then didn't help either. Cause I couldn't love someone who saw me as female, but couldn't tell them "Yeah, I know I said I am a girl, I know I look like a girl, but actually I'm a guy and I love you like a guy" either. Lol), and totally don't have a CLUE how to initiate a relationship/confess love/date a girl. All my life I have been BEFRIENDING girls, but I never had he guts to DATE one.
I know how to make a girl like me. I know what girls like in guys. I know how to be a really nice guy for her. But I have NO idea when or how to take 'the step' from friendship into relationship.

So any advice is welcome!

Also IF it works out... some advice on how to do some sex related things is also welcome. Kissing won't be a problem obviously(I don't have MOUTH dysphoria, LOL!), but how am I ever going to be a proper guy for her in bed? I don't have a dick. I don't know how to have sex without a dick... always when I dream or imagine myself having sex, I HAVE A FREAKING DICK! So now I really feel like I miss a body part. I also don't want her to feel like she is in a lesbian relationship, which worries me especially cause I am pre T.
And my top causes me dysphoria (though it would be bearable without shirt or binder if I would be bottom, cause lying down flattens my chesticles enough for them to seem non-existent), but keeping my binder on in bed also seems... awkward... my bottom causes me dysphoria... so basically all I can do now without feeling paranoid and terrible is kissing... wow... :I

WOAH! This got pretty long. Hope you guys can make some sense out of it. Sometimes I ramble too much, lol.

Fortune rewards the bold Erik. Just ask her if she would like to go out and get dinner with you. Just make it a place where you can talk (not too loud) and get her to open up to you. People are shy until they get to know someone better. After breaking the ice a little you will have a good idea how she stands on you and any relationship possibilities. If she chooses not to go down the relationship path yet at least you will have a good friend to confide in. Who knows, the better you two get to know each other the better an opportunity for a relationship might develop. Just take baby steps and don't force something too soon and you should do well. Just my opinion as always. 

For sex use your hands and mouth on her.  Purchase a QUALITY SILICONE dildo and a QUALITY harness.  You can wear your binder in bed.  Even a binder and t-shirt if it makes you/her more comfortable..sliding across her chest with a binder may not feel so good on her skin.

If you are dating a woman who is ONLY interested in dating men, she won't want to get in your pants and she won't want to touch your chest.  If you are dating a woman who dates people besides females (and therefore in theory can be sexually satisfied with a non-female partner), just make sure you are upfront from the beginning that you don't want those parts touched.  The "right" partner for you will be relieved that you don't want those parts touched. 

I have dated a multitude of women (I'm 44 years old), who were straight or queer who were quite happy that I was "stone".

P.S.  Be smart and have your first dildo be 6 inches long and 1.5 in diameter (the length is more important than the diameter, however).  The is the average male sized penis and studies have shown this is what is preferred (and physically "fits best') in a women's body. 

Guys sometimes go too large and it is less enjoyable for their partner.  If you have come across a partner who prefers a larger size, you can choose to buy one then. 

If you need lubricant, buy water based lube.  Silicone lubes can't be used on a silicone cock.  Always use condoms if you have more than one partner.  Silicone cocks can be sterilized by putting in a pot of boiling water for 3 minutes.  They can also go in the washing machine.

Ok, so there's my fatherly advice.  ha!

 Can't help, but I be sure to follow this topic as I never dated or been in relationship with girls either. Only kissed my best friend who a girl and that's about it.

If it comes to sex take it slow and make sure you two have some rules, ect if u don't like her touching ur chest or downstairs part. And yes sex toys I have a 3/4" (peacock)and 5" one. But it pends on the person if she has sex before or not have a chat and u two can both choose one online or shop.

Good luck and she lucky to have you as a friend if it hasn't gotten further.

You have a lot of intimacey advice allready.
And I Wish I Could give better feelings advice, im in the exact same boat as you at the moment (Except im sitting at the other end).

So all i can offer is what other advice people have given me.
Just go with the flow. If your going to be doing somthing invite them along. Let what will happen happen. Freindships have a natural way of becoming more than freinds if its somthing both parties would like. ironicaly just be yourself.

(And im happy this is someone that knows your trans) And if things dont work out that way. she seems like an awesome freind.

Quote from: Brett on May 25, 2014, 01:43:19 PM

If you are dating a woman who is ONLY interested in dating men, she won't want to get in your pants and she won't want to touch your chest.  If you are dating a woman who dates people besides females (and therefore in theory can be sexually satisfied with a non-female partner), just make sure you are upfront from the beginning that you don't want those parts touched.  The "right" partner for you will be relieved that you don't want those parts touched. 

I have dated a multitude of women (I'm 44 years old), who were straight or queer who were quite happy that I was "stone".

P.S.  Be smart and have your first dildo be 6 inches long and 1.5 in diameter (the length is more important than the diameter, however).  The is the average male sized penis and studies have shown this is what is preferred (and physically "fits best') in a women's body. 

Guys sometimes go too large and it is less enjoyable for their partner.  If you have come across a partner who prefers a larger size, you can choose to buy one then. 

If you need lubricant, buy water based lube.  Silicone lubes can't be used on a silicone cock.  Always use condoms if you have more than one partner.  Silicone cocks can be sterilized by putting in a pot of boiling water for 3 minutes.  They can also go in the washing machine.

Ok, so there's my fatherly advice.  ha!

Sometimes guys see me as a father figure. LOL. Well it's fun if you father speaks dirty to you I suppose.
Good advise.

One thing I'll say is lube is good. Go with lots of lube. Water based is good because nothing is permanently lube-y.
I know a lot of guys who are "stone" esp pre-transition, and have partners and so on.

--Jay

Seem a bit early to be worrying about he sex angle, but that is me.

I would try just asking if she would like to have coffee somewhere or go to an ice cream place. something to do while you talk and easy for either to leave if you find it isn't what you want.

Ok, butting in here. I've been mostly asexual. What does "stone" mean?

Quote from: christopher on May 25, 2014, 10:51:18 PM
Ok, butting in here. I've been mostly asexual. What does "stone" mean?

It is taken from the butch/femme community (but that isn't the only group of people who use the term).  A sexually "stone" person, is one who prefers that their genitals/breasts are not touched during sexually intimacy.  They receive their sexual pleasure by sexually pleasing others. 

I was using the term "stone" as a short hand for a person who prefers to not have their genitals touched.

P.S.  In my first post I meant to say dishwasher, not washing machine!

Well, if you've only just met her - take things slowly to begin with.  Get to know her first as a person and let your friendship develop. 

Flirt if you must.  I think that if you make it obvious you're interested in her, you'll know her feelings soon enough.

Quote from: Brett on May 25, 2014, 11:15:43 PM


P.S.  In my first post I meant to say dishwasher, not washing machine!

I was wondering how it would go in the washing machine. Seems a funny thing in the dishwasher as well, but might be just me.

--Jay

Thanks for all the great advice guys.
Actually she is coming over next week, and I'll either cook her a dinner myself or take her out, whatever she prefers. (I can make delicious home made pizzas ) She loves music and is very creative, so I figured we could make music together (and she could teach me a few things), paint together, etc. and just talk a bit in the process.
I already know her pretty well, as a friend, though (not like BFF for years, but like a beginning good friendship). I talk to her about every evening, though over chat, and have been with her at various places, though never JUST with her. And I have no idea when to take a friendship to the 'next level', so to speak. I have had crushes on people in the past, but all the times I waited TOO LONG, and I got 'friendzoned' kinda. I don't want that to happen again, but I don't want to rush it either.
And how would I flirt with her without it being 'too much'? Should I give her flowers or a present? Or say she is beautiful? Because she is so shy and hard to read I am really afraid to unknowingly go to far. But a friend of hers and mind said she DOES feel something for me, and I don't want to 'disappoint' her by not returning it either. Maybe she's just waiting for me to make a move on her...

And I know thinking about sex things is a bit early, but my worries concerning that side of a relationship are kind of stopping me from pursuing one. Friendships are fine, I know how to make friends, both men and women, but that 'other' side is like chinese for me, lol. People say I am wise for my age, but on terms of love I am like a toddler trying to understand adults.

Quote from: Erik Ezrin on May 26, 2014, 07:11:48 AM
Thanks for all the great advice guys.
Actually she is coming over next week, and I'll either cook her a dinner myself or take her out, whatever she prefers. (I can make delicious home made pizzas ) She loves music and is very creative, so I figured we could make music together (and she could teach me a few things), paint together, etc. and just talk a bit in the process.
I already know her pretty well, as a friend, though (not like BFF for years, but like a beginning good friendship). I talk to her about every evening, though over chat, and have been with her at various places, though never JUST with her. And I have no idea when to take a friendship to the 'next level', so to speak. I have had crushes on people in the past, but all the times I waited TOO LONG, and I got 'friendzoned' kinda. I don't want that to happen again, but I don't want to rush it either.
And how would I flirt with her without it being 'too much'? Should I give her flowers or a present? Or say she is beautiful? Because she is so shy and hard to read I am really afraid to unknowingly go to far. But a friend of hers and mind said she DOES feel something for me, and I don't want to 'disappoint' her by not returning it either. Maybe she's just waiting for me to make a move on her...

And I know thinking about sex things is a bit early, but my worries concerning that side of a relationship are kind of stopping me from pursuing one. Friendships are fine, I know how to make friends, both men and women, but that 'other' side is like chinese for me, lol. People say I am wise for my age, but on terms of love I am like a toddler trying to understand adults.

Hey, Erik.  It is good to hear that your mutual friend says that she likes you.  Good indeed!  I would suggest doing the dinner thing in the most intimate setting.  Making her pizza at home can be seen as rather sweet, but if you live with your parents, it will be less intimate.  Taking her out to dinner and insisting on paying could be seen as a sign to her that you are interested in her in that way. 

You don't want to be over the top in your flirting.  Maybe more just tell her she looks really nice, or a step up would be something like you like her hair.  A step up from that would be telling her that she looks really pretty that day.  This is a way to make comments letting her know that you notice her "in that way", but you aren't really putting yourself out there, or making her uncomfortable in the off chance that she isn't interested. 

I personally wouldn't physically make a move (or do the flowers/present thing), until you get more of a clear signal.  Does she look at you in a way that other people usually don't?  Does she hold your eye contact a little bit longer, than most do in a conversation?  Hold her gaze a little longer so she sees your interest.  Smile at her.  These kinds of things lets someone know we are interested without physically taking the next step.

I think it will start to become natural at some point. 

Good luck and keep us updated!

Brett, thanks man! Your advice is really helpful.
I do still live with my parents sadly, and they also regularly misgender me and call me by my birthname, therefore I was pretty much against it she would come to my place, but I explained it to her (and warned her they will do that. She knows my birthname, cause I thought it would be better for her to hear it from me than from someone else. It was really hard to tell... but right after she said it didn't feel like 'my name' to her at all, etc. which is a good sign), and she reassured me it wouldn't change her view of me (I hope she's right).
I'm trying to get my parents go out together that day, so we have the place for ourselves, and if not I'll probably take her out for dinner, yes. Maybe even go for a walk in the forest, a drink or something, to be away from my parents, as we obviously cannot talk freely when they are around.

Okay, thanks. Telling she looks nice is always a good idea I think, and not too over the top indeed.

I'll pay extra attention to those signs you mentioned. But I'll wait a bit longer indeed, until I am pretty sure she does feel something for me, and is ready for the 'next step'.
Maybe I can give her a hug (I hug all my friends, if they are okay with it)? Or sit a bit closer than I would usually? And then see how she responds. If she draws away or is tense I know to back off, if she leans into me I know she likes it.
I just wanna give her some subtle hints that it can become 'more' than a friendship. Fine if it won't, but great if it will.

Quote from: Erik Ezrin on May 26, 2014, 11:46:01 AM

Maybe I can give her a hug (I hug all my friends, if they are okay with it)? Or sit a bit closer than I would usually? And then see how she responds. If she draws away or is tense I know to back off, if she leans into me I know she likes it.
I just wanna give her some subtle hints that it can become 'more' than a friendship. Fine if it won't, but great if it will.

I'm liking these ideas!

Quote from: Brett on May 26, 2014, 08:52:04 AM
Hey, Erik.  It is good to hear that your mutual friend says that she likes you.  Good indeed!  I would suggest doing the dinner thing in the most intimate setting.  Making her pizza at home can be seen as rather sweet, but if you live with your parents, it will be less intimate.  Taking her out to dinner and insisting on paying could be seen as a sign to her that you are interested in her in that way. 

You don't want to be over the top in your flirting.  Maybe more just tell her she looks really nice, or a step up would be something like you like her hair.  A step up from that would be telling her that she looks really pretty that day.  This is a way to make comments letting her know that you notice her "in that way", but you aren't really putting yourself out there, or making her uncomfortable in the off chance that she isn't interested. 

I personally wouldn't physically make a move (or do the flowers/present thing), until you get more of a clear signal.  Does she look at you in a way that other people usually don't?  Does she hold your eye contact a little bit longer, than most do in a conversation?  Hold her gaze a little longer so she sees your interest.  Smile at her.  These kinds of things lets someone know we are interested without physically taking the next step.

I think it will start to become natural at some point. 

Good luck and keep us updated!

Brett has given you amazing advice!

I would just keep things fun, to be honest.  Flirting isn't always about winking and complimenting, but sometimes it can be about teasing (the nice way) and joking and bantering back and forth.  Try to be witty and charming - but not a BFF.  I wouldn't buy her presents unless there was an occasion like her birthday - even just a card says a lot.

They make wrapping paper that is just all white or brown. Wrap up a card in the paper after you draw on it with the message inside of "the gift is the wrapping paper". lol

Yeah, I'm just not sure how to get a girl to like you, other than befriending them. (all I have done with girls is befriending them, lol)
I thought about making a painting or drawing for her (when it comes to that point), as I am rather creative, and she is too, so I am sure she'll appreciate a handmade gift more than something from a store.
But yeah, I think you guys are right about waiting with such things, I'll first just have to get a bit closer to her (friend-wise, but not in an 'exclusive' way that signals "I don't feel anything for you beyond friendship")

She is visiting next friday, I'll sure to keep you guys posted!

Erik, Kreuzfidel's suggestion of fun and light - the bantering back and forth is what is best.  Keep things light and airy.  Try to not think too much and enjoy yourself.  Let her see your interest in your eyes, your smile, and your teasing.  Good natured (not over the top), teasing is always good.  You may already be doing the above and not even know it?

Gifts, anything you might make, etc., (in my opinion) would come after it is established there is some romantic connection there.  You don't want to overwhelm her or make her feel bad if she doesn't feel the same way.  The key is to figure out if the girl likes you prior to giving her anything that can for certain be read as you liking her.  Stay in the moment.

Keep things light, tease and banter with her, give her compliments where they naturally fit.  After there is an establishment of romantic interest (the first, light kiss, for example), you can consider gifts.  Until then, just give subtle cues of liking her.

Next Friday meaning this one coming up?  I'll stay tuned!

Yup, thanks. I am already kinda teasing her (in a positive way) yes, and just generally laughing about stuff together, etc. whenever we meet. I also know she really looks forward to seeing me again (as she said that up front), and I just told her honestly I was too. Also can I see she always get a bit giggly and such when I am around, lol, is that a positive sign?

It is just hard for me to believe someone would like me, in a romantic way, as I am now. Pre T and all. Plenty of transguys have a difficulty getting someone when all that is missing is a dick, and I miss much more than just that. But I told her how insecure I feel about all these things, my voice, my looks, etc. and she just said she loved my voice and looks, and she knew it I wasn't going to look and sound like this forever. Just... wow... how did I find such a magnificent human being!?

And aye, the friday coming up. So pretty soon already