I'm at a point now where I would like to go part time public (which honestly will likely just end up full-time immediately as my job is very accepting).  Publicly, Ive been presenting for about a month androgynous every day, and part of that has been I wear a lot of girl jeans and shoes, occasionally tops.  Im totally comfortable with it, far more than I am with mens clothing, even still it is a little uncomfortable shopping for womens clothes for me.  Where I really feel stuck is I'm a bit afraid to do a couple of simple, though drastically noticable things (eyebrow arching/laser) because right now I have the safety net of going back to blending in as a male.  That isnt something I want to ever do, but it freaks me out a bit less than the idea of being completely unpassable, which is a big fear I have right now.  I know that shouldnt concern me so much but its hard to get past (theres a bit of history behind that fear).  I did get some good advice today though from my therapist, she said from what she sees, passing wont be a problem but she can tell I'm not going to really believe that until it happens so if I legitmately want to know (which I do) I should just try.  Any advice? or encouragement? (or discouragement even if you feel its warranted)

Sorry for any extraneous details, I try not to post too many topics cause I know I get rambly and very specific...

 When I was worried about that, I got a friend of mine (a girl) to go shopping for clothes with me.  I got dressed up and we went out – several times.  The thing about passing is that it is more than looks: it's voice, walk, hand motions, and ease of person.  Not all of it needs to be perfect but I needed my friend to make me at ease.  Repetition further helped with ease.

I have known several others who have done the same thing and it worked for them.  Unfortunately, I didn't pass so I am recovering from FFS right now.  Even only partially recovered, I pass.

Good Luck!

Hugs

Jen

Hi
Not sure I can offer too much advice, as I seem to be sort of bipolar between anxiety issues and a semi 'screw it' attitude and sometimes get frustrated enough caring what the reaction will be and just do it. If I don't pass, I'm unlikely to see those people again. Then I go back to waiting for HRT/hair removal to do a bit more.

But I seem to be at a strange point where I think I'm sort of passing without trying much, sooner than I thought. I mention this because I still have quite a bit of hair removal to do. At this moment, there isn't much visible, but in a couple of weeks it's going to have recovered and its still about 6 weeks before another session. So there is going to be a period of looking kind of feminine with visible facial hair. Before starting, my hair was the sort that looks like 2 days without shaving, just after shaving it. So as the hair removal can take quite a long time (I've been doing it for about 8-9 months now) and sometimes take a few sessions for too much to be noticeable you might want to start on that sooner rather than later. Otherwise, if you find you are lucky enough to pass sooner rather than later, it can be a bit of a hassle to cover up. Even if you think it's covered with makeup, it's just one more thing your mind might use to hinder you.

I also found that being too scared of not passing was holding me back. We are always really harsh on ourselves. Sometimes you just have to try. It can hurt if it fails. At the same time, it's also valuable feedback. If you don't pass, there is a reason. If you can find something that might be the cause, you can fix it and try again (my current 'scapegoat' is that I haven't been on hrt for long and it's still the initial dose combined with facial hair/voice). Eventually, you'll get there. This does depend on where you live, your situation and how well you can deal with the stares though. But I don't think anyone has had a painless transition. So at some point, when you're ready and not going to be putting yourself in danger, you have to try.

As for rambling and such, I wouldn't worry too much. We are here to help you and support you, not write a technical manual 

If you can do it, dress, then go to a town where you're not known and just play tourist for a day, shop, have lunch, see the sights. If you don't pass it'll be in front of people you'll never see again.

I think most of all its confidence. If you feel, or at least show that you are secure, just go out there and be you, then even with those that gawk and whisper at the sight of something unordinary, you should be fine. The very first time I went outside fully dressed as a woman, including, and this the part that would be the toughest of all, a stuffed bra (you know I still can't even remember what I had used as boobs, maybe a rolled up sock for each, I dunno, 'shrugs it off', I got boobs now, 'grins') as well. I had my therapy appointment that day and had to walk, several miles along busy streets, I figure if I could handle that then I was good. I just focused on where I had to be, hummed to myself (this has always helped me to keep focused on a task and ignore uncomfortable things around me) the whole way, never looking directly at anyone lest I lose my nerve and start visibly shaking from fear. I felt really good despite the initial terror, I just went out there and did it, I was fine, and the next day (night, since I worked overnights stocking) I went into work dressed the same way and fancied seeing one manager trip and nearly fall into something (the guy was a jerk, so it brought some twisted satisfaction to me to see him look like a fool). Of coarse suddenly coming out at work made working there more than unpleasant, most that used to talk to me ignored me after that, and avoided me like a had a catchable disease and I was abused terribly by the managers which in the end forced me to quit. Work I think of all places can be the worst place to come out to, because you spend many of your days there and that's where you get your income, so push your comfort zone at your own risk. But each day thereafter I've lived my life as a woman even on those days that it brought me discomfort from those that tried to bring me down.

Shopping was always the hard on my nerves because it was at those times that I felt like I was being watched the most. I would just take my time and while inside I was a building readying to topple over I remedied that by staying focused, I'm here to shop, so those that I did know were staring (which I could still see out of the corners of my eyes) or talking about me with another, it may had bothered me but I didn't let it show, acting totally ignorant of their presence. When people act like that they are expecting you to cower, cry and run away, in fact they'd relish in it and laugh their asses off, why I'm don't know, sick twisted amusement I suppose, but at the expense of another. My mom on the other hand, she would get so flustered by it all and sometimes would blow up, like, "What're staring at!?" or something else that would for sure call me out and then put more attention my way (though those that were poking fun got embarrassed), but I continued to stay focused and just told her, just ignore them, its okay, no big deal, so long as they aren't physically attacking me, let 'em have their fun, its not bothering me. And she'd try to back up her outburst, "Well it bothers me! Why do people have to act like that! So what if you're not a girl, what business is it of theirs, why does it matter so much whether they know if you're a boy or a girl!?" I had to remind her that even she had a hard time accepting it at first (and still was then). Yeah, it took some time for things like this to not upset my mom so much. Now she tells me that I am her daughter, and when looking back on old pictures of me she has a hard time seeing how that was even me.

Push your comfort zone (that doesn't mean go out there and overdo it, flash and glam will definitely give you the wrong kind of attention if you still aren't very passable as a girl, subtle is best I think, work your way from there), even if you don't think you are ready for it, two things could happen, but its up to you, go out shaking, looking around, and visibly out yourself (body language is the first sign that people are going to notice), or show complete confidence (even if you aren't) and the end results could be favorable. It all depends on how you handle it. Stares, pointing, giggling, name calling, it can all penetrate deeper than anything, but if you can take it, it can actually help fortify you.

Quote from: Megan Joanne on May 31, 2014, 10:29:37 AM
Shopping was always the hard on my nerves because it was at those times that I felt like I was being watched the most. I would just take my time and while inside I was a building readying to topple over I remedied that by staying focused, I'm here to shop, so those that I did know were staring (which I could still see out of the corners of my eyes) or talking about me with another, it may had bothered me but I didn't let it show, acting totally ignorant of their presence.

It's a bit strange. You would think that when in a shop, shopping, that's the time that people would be paying you the least attention. 'Cause you know, they should be looking at stuff in the shop and shopping too.

I've only been shopping once though (for womens clothes while kind of out as a women and not trying to cover up too much) and was lucky enough to kind of pass. At least enough to use the correct fitting room even after being seen to use the mens fitting rooms once. So if no one says anything to make it obvious that they see you as male, then you could always say to yourself 'they are occasionally looking at me because they are looking around at everyone for ideas about what clothes to buy. I just notice when they look at me because I'm nervous and looking for people looking at me and not seeing the people staring at each other.'
I wouldn't be surprised if that's true. Surely people look around at others in the shop to see if they are wearing anything they might take inspiration from?

One other thing regarding confidence. It's something I have always had issue with and still do. But I have found that if no one does anything too bad, like comments or pointing or giggling (as Megan mentioned) then you don't really know why they are giving you attention. You don't know what they are thinking. It's so easy to just assume the worst because of our own insecurities. But you can force yourself to assume the best as well. Like, assume they look at you in the shop because of your clothing style (can work especially well if you're dressed kind of andro, not a common style in my experience). Or maybe they noticed something about you they liked, something you can't see yet. If only one or two people make their thoughts more obviously negative, then you can even brush it off (to a degree anyway) with positive spin. 'Well, that person saw me as male, but it's like one person out of the many I've seen today. Can't be that bad. Bit more time on hrt or some different clothes and it'll be fine'. Cis women sometimes get misgendered too by people with warped ideas about how women should look.
Most of what I have just said actually came from trying to deal with social anxiety before knowing anything about trans stuff.

Thanks for the replies! It just strikes me as odd that I'm perfectly fine walking around in what I feel are proper clothes, but shopping for them just physically drains me through trying to figure out what others are thinking.   Its definitely a confidence issue for me too, I've never been particularly comfortable engaged in socially assumed activities, so naturally a non typical social activity brings anxiety too (though I have to admit, far far less than I had ever imagined)