Seriously, I could be a female body builder with my build. I have so much more than muscle than I am comfortable with. Has anyone noticed a substantial decrease in mucle mass after enough time on HRT to the point where your arms, legs, etc had mucles more comparable to that of an average females? I never in my life even tried to build up this kind of muscle, it just happened....

Here is a picture for refrence:

Lol you call that muscle? Just kidding but yes they're is some reduction but it varies person to person and is not guaranteed. You honestly don't look like you have that much muscle. You should have saw me prior to transition I had a lot more muscle than that.

Really, You are flattering Yourself... or not taking female bodybuilders seriously .

I didn't have big arms, had always been slender all my life, but did do a lot of work that required use of muscles (construction labor, stocking), as well as a lot of exercise (used to be able to do 100 pushups without stopping, on my knuckles, easy, and also did a lot of jogging - messed up my knees for many years) and while slim my muscles in my arms were hard like rocks. Once on the estrogen, combined with less exercise, even though they're still there--maybe a little smaller (can't really tell)--eventually those muscles got softer (but I also have more fat on my arms too) so I don't really know, but I can say that I am no where near as strong in upper body as I was prior to transitioning. As a guy my weight was around 125-130, so yeah, I wasn't heavily built. Extra fat on my body later added 10-15 pounds, got as heavy as 150 one year and was happy about it because I looked really good. Without the hormones, if off of them too long I start losing some of that arm fat, then the veins and definition start showing better, start looking like guy's arms again. 'Shudders'

Your arms will be fine.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. I don't feel nearly as bad as I once did.

When you look like this then I'll believe you look like a female bodybuilder...



...believe me, this was one of the less scary pics I found.

Quote from: Ms Grace on June 02, 2014, 05:41:05 AM
When you look like this then I'll believe you look like a female bodybuilder...



...believe me, this was one of the less scary pics I found.

And I wonder if she has taken testosterone...

Steroids at a guess, don't know if that's the same thing...?

Quote from: Ms Grace on June 02, 2014, 06:26:21 AM
Steroids at a guess, don't know if that's the same thing...?

Pretty much, because bodybuilding steroids are built around testosterone supplements (so happy that I never took them...).

People (guys typically) who workout all the time, build a lot of muscle, and then suddenly stop working out will still keep most of their size for a pretty long time. I remember hearing of someone who worked out intensely, stopped for literally 10 years and kept pretty much the same size (of course less defined, mass) started again and was almost immediately back where he started.

In your picture it looks like you still have a bit of muscle size, but not mass, just like Megan Joanne mentioned. I experienced the same thing.

The way we're built is our bodies don't like to change. We used to be starving looking for food and running from lions, we needed this for safety! Food and nutrients are the most immediate form of energy for our bodies, then fat, then muscle. But our bodies always adjust our metabolism accordingly. We have to force our bodies to change.

Long story short in my opinion simply HRT won't redistribute fat or lessen muscle size on its own. Fat won't move around, muscles won't disappear.

This is why I started losing as much weight and muscle as I (safely) could. Then returned to my normal lifestyle and progress in feminization was MUCH better. Try and work with a dietician and your physician to make sure your vitals are ok... The best fat loss method is walking right after you wake up on an empty stomach (fasted state) for an hour at a good pace. This will put you immediately in a fat burning catabolic state as you don't have any nutrients to go through and an hour will keep you safe from an anabolic state. To burn muscle you'll need to probably do more than walking or go beyond an hour. Your body only has so much fat to burn available at a time so you'll then go into an anabolic state and begin burning muscle for energy. Again make sure you do this safely.

Girl... if thats female body builder muscle.. I must be an iron pumping machine because my arms are way bigger than yours. In measurement, my arms are 14" around (my wife's arms are 11" around) so when you consider it, its not really that much... Ive seen girls who have bigger arms than both of us lol.

As for your initial question ~ I don't think i've been on 'mones long enough to see any muscle decrease, but I HAVE noticed my arms got smaller, my legs got smaller, and my shoulders have softened up greatly, my chest has also decreased in size. Its worth considering that a LOT of this is achievable by simply doing a lot of cardio. If you look it up;  you'll notice that body builders don't do a lot of cardio because too much cardio starts to reduce muscle mass.

Seeing as I've been doing about 1 hour to an hour and a half of cardio 4 times a week, not including my very cardio-integrated workout with a PT, i'd venture a guess that this is true judging by the results in my muscle mass decrease. I honestly can't say how much of it is due to hormones and how much is due to workout, and i probably will never know if I continue to do my usual workout routine I'd recommend putting some workout in your lifestyle, because as teeg said ~ it wont just happen on its own. Your muscles will shrink to some degree, but can shrink more if you put the energy into your body and lifestyle to make it so... even cisgirls who don't work out have large arms... and fat distribution (to my understanding) will only work in the sense of your body simply moving the fat it stores to different storage places... consider it like moving stuff from your basement to your attic . The fat you eat will go to your butt/legs or boobs (if you're lucky) and cheeks, instead of the usual gut but the fat that is already in the "male" places of common fat storage, wont really go anywhere on their own, you gotta kick em out and ask for their last month's rent LOL.

What i'm doing now (and seems to be working well) is eating healthy and working out mon-fri, and then having a cheat day on saturday or sunday, alternating workouts on weekends bi-weekly. That way, I'm getting my healthy week of weight and muscle loss, and still getting my bits of fat for proper femi-ness. As a result, I've seen a mild increase in breast tissue, my butt got slightly bigger, and my stomach has kept on reducing in size despite the cheat days. I've been lucky enough that my thighs have not been a home for fat (I made the assumption that as a male, it was a common place for it since my legs use to be really fat and I had a bit of a gut). So yeah, to put my unnecessarily long response simply: Put a little physical activity in your life, eat right, and don't feel bad about cheat days... just don't overdue it... like... don't eat 5 stacks of pancakes or anything :S

Quote from: LittleEmily24 on June 02, 2014, 12:53:13 PM
Girl... if thats female body builder muscle.. I must be an iron pumping machine because my arms are way bigger than yours. In measurement, my arms are 14" around (my wife's arms are 11" around) so when you consider it, its not really that much... Ive seen girls who have bigger arms than both of us lol.

As for your initial question ~ I don't think i've been on 'mones long enough to see any muscle decrease, but I HAVE noticed my arms got smaller, my legs got smaller, and my shoulders have softened up greatly, my chest has also decreased in size. Its worth considering that a LOT of this is achievable by simply doing a lot of cardio. If you look it up;  you'll notice that body builders don't do a lot of cardio because too much cardio starts to reduce muscle mass.

Seeing as I've been doing about 1 hour to an hour and a half of cardio 4 times a week, not including my very cardio-integrated workout with a PT, i'd venture a guess that this is true judging by the results in my muscle mass decrease. I honestly can't say how much of it is due to hormones and how much is due to workout, and i probably will never know if I continue to do my usual workout routine I'd recommend putting some workout in your lifestyle, because as teeg said ~ it wont just happen on its own. Your muscles will shrink to some degree, but can shrink more if you put the energy into your body and lifestyle to make it so... even cisgirls who don't work out have large arms... and fat distribution (to my understanding) will only work in the sense of your body simply moving the fat it stores to different storage places... consider it like moving stuff from your basement to your attic . The fat you eat will go to your butt/legs or boobs (if you're lucky) and cheeks, instead of the usual gut but the fat that is already in the "male" places of common fat storage, wont really go anywhere on their own, you gotta kick em out and ask for their last month's rent LOL.

What i'm doing now (and seems to be working well) is eating healthy and working out mon-fri, and then having a cheat day on saturday or sunday, alternating workouts on weekends bi-weekly. That way, I'm getting my healthy week of weight and muscle loss, and still getting my bits of fat for proper femi-ness. As a result, I've seen a mild increase in breast tissue, my butt got slightly bigger, and my stomach has kept on reducing in size despite the cheat days. I've been lucky enough that my thighs have not been a home for fat (I made the assumption that as a male, it was a common place for it since my legs use to be really fat and I had a bit of a gut). So yeah, to put my unnecessarily long response simply: Put a little physical activity in your life, eat right, and don't feel bad about cheat days... just don't overdue it... like... don't eat 5 stacks of pancakes or anything :S

Thank you for the advice Emily! What types of workouts do you do?

Hi.  Before I started HRT in 1998, I was very muscular.  From years of being in the US Army, then working as a truck mechanic after that, and then several years working on a farm, my arms were pretty bulky with very well developed muscles.  After I started HRT, and before I started losing any muscle mass, I noticed a dramatic decrease in strength in that first year on hormones.  I don't know, maybe I'm alone in that for several years into my transition, I deliberately worked at maintaining as much upper body strength as I could.  I feel healthier when I feel strong.  I think that women with a little muscle development are particularly sexy.  And I feel safer when I feel strong (as in, I can defend myself.)  (Did I mention that I grew up in Malibu, California where body image is everything?)

Fast forward 16 years, after all this time on hormones, my muscles are dramatically smaller and much more feminine in appearance, but I have managed to maintain just a little bit of definition and strength.  I can tell you this, as a trans woman who has lived a nearly stealth existence for the past 14 years, nearly every woman that I know envies my arms.  Most of the women I know have fat, flabby, underdeveloped arms. All through my 40's (I'm nearly 50 now), women I have known have been asking about my arms and how I keep them so slender.  Many people have asked things like "Were you a tennis player or something?"  I look around at what most women my age are dealing with as far as having flabby, unattractive arms, and I give thanks for my lovely, slim arms.  I pray that they never turn to flab.  When I flex my arms, my muscles still feel hard as rocks, and I haven't done much to maintain them over the past 8 years or so.  I do keep an eye on them, and if ever I start to see flab coming on, I will work those muscles 'til they ache!   

Quote from: Ms Grace on June 02, 2014, 05:41:05 AM

sorry..... but eww, just                  eww

and yea I know there is much more scarier pics than this,

I never really had much muscle before I started HRT if I remember correctly, and I gained some, because I was working on cars for a bit, got kinda picked at for that as well, but oh well the muscle was masculine defined but it was there, after I got out of that career muscle went down some than after surgery, and some med adjustments, I have been really surprised how much I lost.

hormones play a part and have an even more dramatic effect if you quit doing anything requiring much strength, this is just an opinion based on how it went with me.

Athena, that picture you put up there, looks totally natural, to be honest if it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even know that you weren't cis, to me it looks kinda cute lol

Lol, you are decidedly 'unmuscley', you definitely have nothing to worry about

But as long as you're on E you won't be doing your muscles any favors, so if you feel particularly 'defined' just give it time, it'll dwindle away. I've pulled like three muscles in as many months because I keep overestimating my Post-T strength

God, I hope E does something for me. I haven't lifted a weight since I played football in HS. My job requires me to be fit, just did fitness tests today in fact, but it's not strenuous and cardio is the biggest part of it. Over 25 years of no weight lifting and my arms are still almost 17 inches. Grrr!!! Friggin genetics! Great for my brothers, older brother is 47 and still sports a six pack, the freak, but stinks for me. Every time I look in the mirror I feel like god is slapping me. Seriously, my bulk has sent me into depressions so dark, that only my friends here and the friends that know have kept me sane.

Honestly hon, your arms look great! If my forearms were that size I would be singing and dancing in the streets. My advice would be to just enjoy it!

Mikaela

Quote from: teeg on June 02, 2014, 12:24:42 PM
People (guys typically) who workout all the time, build a lot of muscle, and then suddenly stop working out will still keep most of their size for a pretty long time. I remember hearing of someone who worked out intensely, stopped for literally 10 years and kept pretty much the same size (of course less defined, mass) started again and was almost immediately back where he started.

In your picture it looks like you still have a bit of muscle size, but not mass, just like Megan Joanne mentioned. I experienced the same thing.

The way we're built is our bodies don't like to change. We used to be starving looking for food and running from lions, we needed this for safety! Food and nutrients are the most immediate form of energy for our bodies, then fat, then muscle. But our bodies always adjust our metabolism accordingly. We have to force our bodies to change.

Long story short in my opinion simply HRT won't redistribute fat or lessen muscle size on its own. Fat won't move around, muscles won't disappear.

This is why I started losing as much weight and muscle as I (safely) could. Then returned to my normal lifestyle and progress in feminization was MUCH better. Try and work with a dietician and your physician to make sure your vitals are ok... The best fat loss method is walking right after you wake up on an empty stomach (fasted state) for an hour at a good pace. This will put you immediately in a fat burning catabolic state as you don't have any nutrients to go through and an hour will keep you safe from an anabolic state. To burn muscle you'll need to probably do more than walking or go beyond an hour. Your body only has so much fat to burn available at a time so you'll then go into an anabolic state and begin burning muscle for energy. Again make sure you do this safely.

I agree with this. What I did before starting HRT was to get my body fat % down to about 8%. Then start a yo-yo diet and cardio in between to build fat in a more female like pattern instead of placing it on-top of already nascent male patterned fat.

Then again you know what? I've seen some incredible changes with fat redistribution, like AbbyJamz' and her gorgeous face, without any of the above burn states.

So who knows.

I lost lots of muscle mass and now I'm fairly skinny, as I didn't have much fat, just muscles! But it takes a while to see the results, dieting may help, and not exercising too much Good luck!

Quote from: calico on June 02, 2014, 06:25:15 PM
Athena, that picture you put up there, looks totally natural, to be honest if it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even know that you weren't cis, to me it looks kinda cute lol

Aww, thanks! 

Quote from: Mikaela on June 02, 2014, 09:56:18 PM
God, I hope E does something for me. I haven't lifted a weight since I played football in HS. My job requires me to be fit, just did fitness tests today in fact, but it's not strenuous and cardio is the biggest part of it. Over 25 years of no weight lifting and my arms are still almost 17 inches. Grrr!!! Friggin genetics! Great for my brothers, older brother is 47 and still sports a six pack, the freak, but stinks for me. Every time I look in the mirror I feel like god is slapping me. Seriously, my bulk has sent me into depressions so dark, that only my friends here and the friends that know have kept me sane.

Honestly hon, your arms look great! If my forearms were that size I would be singing and dancing in the streets. My advice would be to just enjoy it!

Mikaela

I'm sorry to hear about your depression relating to dysphoria with your arms. You are right though, I should feel grateful for what I have