You know, the stuff in those pics is nice, but at the end of the day it's just stuff. In spite of what the world tells you stuff does not bring happiness, it just brings the desire for more stuff.

I have known some people that had nothing and yet those people were some of the happiest and most content people I've ever known.

Personally, I'd rather have that kind of contentment in my life and let other people pursue happiness by acquiring more and more stuff. As long as I have a car that runs, a roof over my head, food on the table, and a source of income - I'm happy

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 08:02:21 AM
If I posted this tumbler link in say, the bodybuilding.com forums or some place like hairlosstalk which is mostly androcentric, you can darn well bet the thread will be filled with "I'd hit it!" "Nice!" "Phat watch" "These are what dreams are made of" "Rock on!" types of posts with inserted images and everyone literally drooling over the man crush content.

Why do you choose to describe it as "androcentric"? Why do you choose to focus on their gender instead of on their shallowness? Some people are shallow. When you describe sites that appeal to shallow people who seem absolutely obsessed with certain physical traits as androcentric, you seem to ascribe shallow behavior to men in particular. One shouldn't point to beauty pageants in order to say "Look how shallow women are in particular". That's a kind of tunnel vision that reinforces a particular sexist viewpoint.

The thing is, I surf a lot of forums. I know how people act on forums. The males in here don't act like the males on the other forums.

So something is suspect.

I'm not being sexist, I'm not denying the obvious either.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 08:02:21 AM
^^ I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound disparaging, but you really sound like a woman!

If I posted this tumbler link in say, the bodybuilding.com forums or some place like hairlosstalk which is mostly androcentric, you can darn well bet the thread will be filled with "I'd hit it!" "Nice!" "Phat watch" "These are what dreams are made of" "Rock on!" types of posts with inserted images and everyone literally drooling over the man crush content.

Ahh.. Places where the locals haven't realised that material wealth doesn't actually bring happiness and is, in fact, a faintly steaming pile of crap.

Granted that might not be a popular way of thinking with men, we attribute happiness to our possessions, in the flesh or mechanical.

Men *love* their toys.

Example:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/what-omega-owners-drive-349515.html

And this is just middle class type of stuff.

But I don't get this same "hurrah!" bravado vibe from the males in here regarding my OP, which has been completely unexpected (but now makes sense).

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 08:13:50 AM
The thing is, I surf a lot of forums. I know how people act on forums. The males in here don't act like males like on the other forums.

So something is suspect.

I'm not being sexist, I'm not denying the obvious either.

Of course the people here act differently - we are coloured by our past and for many of us our past sets us apart from the general population. Whether the direction of travel is MtF or FtM is irrelevant because we have each experienced male and female socialization.

None of the things you have posted are exclusively the product of male privilege. They are available to anyone with money. If you value them then you do not have to give up being female to gain them.

Are you posting this because you are looking for a reason to halt your transition? Something external to allow you to avoid making a difficult decision? "I had to stop because of xxxxx or yyyyy" rather than "I had serious doubts"? From reading your other posts over the past few weeks and months - certainly since you started E - it does sound like you are very unsure that you want the consequences of a full-blown transition.

If transition is wrong for you, or at least not 99% right for you, then you would be best stopping for a while. Maybe a detransition back to full male mode (no more E) and see how you feel would be the best thing.

It all depends if these sort of questions are about looking for a reason to halt.

Only you can answer that.

Quote from: dalebert on June 04, 2014, 07:44:08 AM
I think it's a bit of a reach to act like money and status symbols are tied to gender. Doesn't it seem sexist to assign it like that? I just think there's a tendency to have different preferences of status symbols. For shallow guys, it might be sports cars. For shallow women, it might be diamond jewelry and a Gucci purse. In both cases, it's their belief of what will attract shallow members of the opposite sex.

I'm cis, fwiw.

I smiled so much at this.  (feels a bit shallow)
I did say, exchange the cars to a couple pretty dresses and some outrageous shoes and it might appeal to me more.
Then again I am guilty of this VVV

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 07:17:21 AM
M2F wants to do away with all things male assigned. Why would they give credence to something that's a nemesis to their transitioned identity?

Given that I choose not to mention that I do have a dream car. And choose not to mention it because of its male stereotype association. However, Even as I shop on online I see allsorts of pretty dresses and stuff I choose not to buy due to there practicality. Although they are really very appealing. And its the same with the car, Its is more likely to be stolen, Id be less likely to drive it ect. And nobody wants to tear a piece of clothing that they spend an awful lot of money on.

Quote from: ytxwmb on June 04, 2014, 08:29:09 AM
Of course the people here act differently - we are coloured by our past and for many of us our past sets us apart from the general population. Whether the direction of travel is MtF or FtM is irrelevant because we have each experienced male and female socialization.

None of the things you have posted are exclusively the product of male privilege. They are available to anyone with money. If you value them then you do not have to give up being female to gain them.

Are you posting this because you are looking for a reason to halt your transition? Something external to allow you to avoid making a difficult decision? "I had to stop because of xxxxx or yyyyy" rather than "I had serious doubts"? From reading your other posts over the past few weeks and months - certainly since you started E - it does sound like you are very unsure that you want the consequences of a full-blown transition.

If transition is wrong for you, or at least not 99% right for you, then you would be best stopping for a while. Maybe a detransition back to full male mode (no more E) and see how you feel would be the best thing.

It all depends if these sort of questions are about looking for a reason to halt.

Only you can answer that.

The things posted may not be exclusive, but it's primarily in the domain of male acquired privilege. I'm not going to argue the number of millionaires and billionaires and which cis gender monopolizes that by a HUGE margin. I'm sure most of us know.

Anyway I won't argue against halting transition to see how I feel. I'll make an executive decision about it soon enough. (or maybe she will). 

I guess the owner of the blog is a young guy. I think much young guys long for this lifestyle, but with time most of them "grows up" anf realizes there are more important things in life than hot girls, cool cars etc. Sometimes I also would like to have a part of my life when the hardest decision is which car would I like to drive or which watch to put on, wich girl to go home with. I'm sure I would enjoy it for a while but money and power never was the center of my life.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 08:22:23 AM
Granted that might not be a popular way of thinking with men, we attribute happiness to our possessions, in the flesh or mechanical.

Men *love* their toys.
Example:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f20/what-omega-owners-drive-349515.html
And this is just middle class type of stuff.

That thread is not really about loving their toys... It is one of those typical "measuring" threads which are inevitable when men, testosterone and their hobbies are involved.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 08:13:50 AM
The thing is, I surf a lot of forums. I know how people act on forums. The males in here don't act like males like on the other forums.

So something is suspect.

I'm not being sexist, I'm not denying the obvious either.

Hon you may want to settle down a bit. Not all guys want those things. Sure money and power are appealing for some people. Happiness comes in all shapes and size in every matter of life. Some men was fast cars, some women want fast cars. You shouldn't make blanket statements like and then tell the guys here that they don't act like males [from other forums]. Forums are rather specific subsets of human idenities. This is a support forum for tran+ individuals. IMO I wouldn't suspect most people here to talk like people in a car or bodybuilding forum because this isn't the correct venue (there are spaces her for those discussions also) for it. The view you see of people here is a small peek into their lives not full exposure.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 08:02:21 AM
^^ I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound disparaging, but you really sound like a woman!

If I posted this tumbler link in say, the bodybuilding.com forums or some place like hairlosstalk which is mostly androcentric, you can darn well bet the thread will be filled with "I'd hit it!" "Nice!" "Phat watch" "These are what dreams are made of" "Rock on!" types of posts with inserted images and everyone literally drooling over the man crush content.

That's probably the most insulting and hurtful thing I will see all day. No, not for me. But for other people here. Most of the cismen in my life wouldn't even be interested in that. They grew up, for one.

You ever think we might be interested in other things? I'm too practical to want a fancy sports car. Make it a classic truck and a group of hairy men and I might be interested in "hitting that".

Quote from: Hayley on June 04, 2014, 08:40:42 AM
Hon you may want to settle down a bit. Not all guys want those things. Sure money and power are appealing for some people. Happiness comes in all shapes and size in every matter of life. Some men was fast cars, some women want fast cars. You shouldn't make blanket statements like and then tell the guys here that they don't act like males [from other forums]. Forums are rather specific subsets of human idenities. This is a support forum for tran+ individuals. IMO I wouldn't suspect most people here to talk like people in a car or bodybuilding forum because this isn't the correct venue (there are spaces her for those discussions also) for it. The view you see of people here is a small peek into their lives not full exposure.

If I was to substitute my OP with a "female privilege" topic and a tumblr link to images of super models, lush hauls, makeup techniques, puppy's, picket fence houses, etc. and then prefaced what you wrote above:

"Not all women want those things. Sure beauty and looks are appealing for some people..."

Do you see how preposterous that sounds? "some" ??

Right...

The fact is, what I posted will have rapport with a majority of cis men. Not just 'some'.

I do get it with the microcosm here and this particular trans cross-section will have a different opinion from cis males. I will admit I should have been more understanding about that. Apologies if I offended.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 08:02:21 AM
^^ I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound disparaging, but you really sound like a woman!

If I posted this tumbler link in say, the bodybuilding.com forums or some place like hairlosstalk which is mostly androcentric, you can darn well bet the thread will be filled with "I'd hit it!" "Nice!" "Phat watch" "These are what dreams are made of" "Rock on!" types of posts with inserted images and everyone literally drooling over the man crush content.

And at some points I sound like a man. But its that word LIKE. A cis man can be referred to as LIKE a woman by calling him effeminate. And a lot of assumption can be made because of this, usually that he's gay. Because that is the gay stereo type, because a straight male isn't "supposed to be" like that. But the truth of the matter is, their is not "supposed to be" when it comes to people.

Supposed to be, Is a word of oppression used to enforce what a person expects and/or desires another person to be. When all a person can be is themselves, applying supposed to be to a person marginalises them as a person, discredits other factors of their identity, which can cause feelings of being wrong and not normal. 

I play video games, that's a boy thing, But is it? My sisters all play them? I know more girls that play them, my experience makes games a girl thing? But the reality makes them genderless. I think its the same with everything we apply gender too. What we feel how we act and react are not girl boy ways, but US our self ways. And the supposed to be mentalities concerning who we are, are what hurt us with our existence. And even the privileges concerning each gender supposed to be can cause us to feel trapped and restricted.

When you get right down to it people are not stereo types, and trans is going a long way to prove that.

Edit---
For a long while, I struggled with weather this was right for me to do, based singularly on my chromosomes, something about me that I found undeniably male. And often though that because of them  I would have to say, "if you mean do I have xx chromosomes, then no" when ever I was asked if I'm a woman. But I just recently discovered that even these do not matter, AIS.

And so even now even my chromosomes aren't something undeniably male about me.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 09:09:06 AM
If I was to substitute my OP with a "female privilege" topic and a tumblr link to images of super models, lush hauls, makeup techniques, puppy's, picket fence houses, etc. and then prefaced what you wrote above:

"Not all women want those things. Sure beauty and looks are appealing for some people..."

Do you see how preposterous that sounds? "some" ??

Right...

The fact is, what I posted will have rapport with a majority of cis men. Not just 'some'.

I do get it with the microcosm here and this particular trans cross-section will have a different opinion from cis males. I will admit I should have been more understanding about that. Apologies if I offended.

How do you measure "most"? Is this based on the forums you visit? The shows and movies you see? Because your most is my minority. In my little corner of the PNW, my geeky forums and the career and interests I have, it's not like that. Not for the men or the women.

The women I know, they may care about their looks to a degree, but they don't want to look like super models. They care much more about their interests, families and careers than makeup. I am trying to imagine showing them a similar tumbler and telling them "this is what you want!" and it's laughable.

It's really hard to figure out your intent here. You aren't acknowledging the people who are saying that the cis-men they know don't fit your stereotype. You titled the thread "privilege" but it seems like maybe it's more about status? Like you want to point out men crave status? But why do you need to point that out? What does that gain you and this forum?

Earlier you made a statement that men like their toys. If you'd said that, I'd have less troubles. However, most of the men I know, you'd have to post of tumbler of mountain bikes, or art supplies or green houses or tools or.. I don't know. That's the point really. All men aren't hired wired to want flashy cars. All women aren't hard wired to want to be super models.

If you want to look at it from an animal behavior perspective (my area of focus in university), men *probably* are hard-wired to show off. This can take the form of flashy cars or it can take the form of having the best looking garden. Male birds sing, male deer grow huge racks of antlers, male frogs croak... etc. But that's a small bit of what forms a man and how that is expressed is as varied as can be.

Quote from: christopher on June 04, 2014, 09:34:00 AM
How do you measure "most"? Is this based on the forums you visit? The shows and movies you see? Because your most is my minority. In my little corner of the PNW, my geeky forums and the career and interests I have, it's not like that. Not for the men or the women.

The women I know, they may care about their looks to a degree, but they don't want to look like super models. They care much more about their interests, families and careers than makeup. I am trying to imagine showing them a similar tumbler and telling them "this is what you want!" and it's laughable.

It's really hard to figure out your intent here. You aren't acknowledging the people who are saying that the cis-men they know don't fit your stereotype. You titled the thread "privilege" but it seems like maybe it's more about status? Like you want to point out men crave status? But why do you need to point that out? What does that gain you and this forum?

Earlier you made a statement that men like their toys. If you'd said that, I'd have less troubles. However, most of the men I know, you'd have to post of tumbler of mountain bikes, or art supplies or green houses or tools or.. I don't know. That's the point really. All men aren't hired wired to want flashy cars. All women aren't hard wired to want to be super models.

If you want to look at it from an animal behavior perspective (my area of focus in university), men *probably* are hard-wired to show off. This can take the form of flashy cars or it can take the form of having the best looking garden. Male birds sing, male deer grow huge racks of antlers, male frogs croak... etc. But that's a small bit of what forms a man and how that is expressed is as varied as can be.

Sigh. Power vis-a-vis Money. It's all intertwined. Why obfuscate it. 99% of clinically sane men would trade their rinky dinky mountain biking lifestyle for a bank vault.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 09:09:06 AM
If I was to substitute my OP with a "female privilege" topic and a tumblr link to images of super models, lush hauls, makeup techniques, puppy's, picket fence houses, etc. and then prefaced what you wrote above:

"Not all women want those things. Sure beauty and looks are appealing for some people..."

Do you see how preposterous that sounds? "some" ??

Right...

The fact is, what I posted will have rapport with a majority of cis men. Not just 'some'.

I do get it with the microcosm here and this particular trans cross-section will have a different opinion from cis males. I will admit I should have been more understanding about that. Apologies if I offended.

I don't get easily offended, but what you're saying offends me.

I guess I live in one of this microcosms where "most" men and "most" women do not fall into these categories. The cis and trans people I look up to and spend my time with are multifaceted, kind, interesting people. Whether they're interested in cars or not. Or makeup. Or puppies. and, yeah, I have friends of "both" genders who love these things.

But my teenage brother? He'd probably like to look at that blog you linked.

Maybe it's time to take a look at who you are spending your time with.

Yeah your right. These immature movers and shakers are cramping up my image, yo.

Anyway I'll leave you men alone. Gotta run back to my little bubble. Been fun.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 08:02:21 AM
^^ I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound disparaging, but you really sound like a woman!

If I posted this tumbler link in say, the bodybuilding.com forums or some place like hairlosstalk which is mostly androcentric, you can darn well bet the thread will be filled with "I'd hit it!" "Nice!" "Phat watch" "These are what dreams are made of" "Rock on!" types of posts with inserted images and everyone literally drooling over the man crush content.

I think you are confusing gender with subculture. Almost all men pursue a path that isn't just power and money, I mean if all men were just like that we would have a lot fewer college professors and a lot more wolves on wall street.

I bet you could go to a bodybuilding forum and find lots of things that are not representative of maleness but of bodybuilding culture. There will always be women like fmr senator Clinton who seek power and men who are content to work in a public school; that doesn't make them less of women or less of men.

Quote from: Evelyn K on June 04, 2014, 09:41:47 AM
Sigh. Power vis-a-vis Money. It's all intertwined. Why obfuscate it. 99% of clinically sane men would trade their rinky dinky mountain biking lifestyle for a bank vault.

I'd comment that 99% of the clinically sane men I know wouldn't want to trade, but you'd simply ignore it.

And, just for a moment, consider cultural differences - which can be quite large, even amongst the english-speaking 'western' countries.

Now, I do know some guys who'd be in to the cars.. For the cars themselves, not any imagined 'status' they may impose - but I know women just the same about cars.