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For anyone questioning if "Male Privilege" is worth it, this one is for you.

Started by Evelyn K, June 04, 2014, 05:02:52 AM

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AnneB

No, it was not sarcastic.  The difference also, is in the age brackets of those here.  I have no idea what ages are of the posters, ..  I'm mid 50's, and travel... A LOT, and likely know, or have met more than someone in their 20's, 30's, or even 40's.... (I don't mean this badly, but Julie would understand that). Generationally, how you grew up.. how you were raised, what you were exposed to determine what is important in wants, needs and desires.
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FTMDiaries

And also culturally.

British men tend to lean more towards the caring side, and less towards the Tim Taylor side. They're also much more subtle with their booty-ogling. And of course, we have lower expectations when it comes to things like boats and aeroplanes. ;)





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ErinWDK

Quote from: Paula Christine on June 04, 2014, 11:30:33 AM
No, it was not sarcastic.  The difference also, is in the age brackets of those here.  I have no idea what ages are of the posters, ..  I'm mid 50's, and travel... A LOT, and likely know, or have met more than someone in their 20's, 30's, or even 40's.... (I don't mean this badly, but Julie would understand that). Generationally, how you grew up.. how you were raised, what you were exposed to determine what is important in wants, needs and desires.

I am 61.  Just saying that makes me feel OLD.  I don't really have the "male" desires this thread is pointing out.  That is probably because I am trans* and my female side doesn't care.  I have all sorts of social contacts from those under 10 years old to those over 90, both cis-male and cis-female with a couple FtM trans to add perspective.  Again, I see a total mix of personalities and interests.  Maybe my world is just different...


Erin
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HoneyStrums

Quote from: ErinWDK on June 04, 2014, 11:45:27 AM
I am 61.  Just saying that makes me feel OLD.  I don't really have the "male" desires this thread is pointing out.  That is probably because I am trans* and my female side doesn't care.  I have all sorts of social contacts from those under 10 years old to those over 90, both cis-male and cis-female with a couple FtM trans to add perspective.  Again, I see a total mix of personalities and interests.  Maybe my world is just different...


Erin

Everybody's world is different, these kinds of problems only crop up when, somebody says their world is the same as another persons, We all live on the same planet but for every set of eyes a different world is seen.

Its like this, calling something a woman enjoys to do manly, because it is dominated by men, takes away from her femininity.
Calling something a man likes feminine because its associated with girls de masculinises them.

And its this feeling of manliness femininity discrediting that's causing this whole mess.

Gender is possession, so when somebody does or says something to marginalise your femininity or masculinity your feeling are bound to be rubbed the wrong way.
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AnneB

Quote from: FTMDiaries on June 04, 2014, 11:38:47 AM
And also culturally.

British men tend to lean more towards the caring side, and less towards the Tim Taylor side. They're also much more subtle with their booty-ogling. And of course, we have lower expectations when it comes to things like boats and aeroplanes. ;)

Those of us in "the colones" then, are  cruder, crass-er, much less stuffed-shirt.  Maybe if we drank the tea instead of dumping it in the harbor...   ;)

It still goes to upbringing.  Those in the US have much more exposure to, and therefore, more opportunity to want, find, afford and buy a Mustang, Shovelhead, Cirrus, Brietling, or Rolex...  Shallow? Yes.  Limited to small group, not hardly.   I have lived all across the US, from Washington, DC, to the desert Southwest.  There are areas here where the guys truck is worth more than their house, contents included.  Where their bling alone, if sold, could send a kid to college.  Is it right? Of course not.  Is it nationwide? Yes.  Is it going to change? No, at least, not here. 

Could the be said for a collection of shoes, handbags, jewelry or clothes?  Absolutely.  But I'm just discovering that part.  Ask me again after a couple yrs of E would I want, or drool, over SeƱor Escobars  pix.
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aleon515

Yuck!  Could really not care less about this stuff, and Tumblr is the arm pit of the net (with a few worthy exceptions).
These are stereotypical male images, though I would suppose that many cis guys would not get into them either. I don't feel the necessity to buy into various male stereotypes and can be intentional about who I am. It is one of the advantages of being trans and being able to think about it. I actually do NOT think this is the meaning (necessarily) of male privilege btw, unless you are speaking of the supposed privilege of objectifying women. This "privilege" is not one which I am interested in promoting. (I'm an older guy FWIW. Tumblr tends to be a "young thing".)

--Jay
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AnneB

Jay, again... It -is- different, being non-cis.  The same could be said for not wanting to watch Say Yes To The Dress.    It just isn't in me...  yet... maybe, idk
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Goldfish

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on June 04, 2014, 12:00:55 PM
Its like this, calling something a woman enjoys to do manly, because it is dominated by men, takes away from her femininity.
Calling something a man likes feminine because its associated with girls de masculinises them.

And its this feeling of manliness femininity discrediting that's causing this whole mess.

Gender is possession, so when somebody does or says something to marginalise your femininity or masculinity your feeling are bound to be rubbed the wrong way.

Something I never really understood, maybe because I don't really feel any sense of masculinity or femininity, I just am me. Just because someone, somewhere, sometime in the past decided that men should do this and women should do that, why should I care? The only reason I can see for the gendering of interests, activities, roles, etc is as a setup for forcing people into doing things, for taking away their freedom to just be human.
So being a programmer, interested in maths, robotics, AI, physics, science in general and more, things which are generally seen as being more 'male' associated, does not take anything, at all, away from me as a woman. Neither does being interested in more 'female' things like drawing or painting or whatever add anything. My gender is independent of all these things. But they all add something to me as a person, as a human regardless of gender/sex.
Naomi is still wondering if she is a Cylon
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Heather

Quote from: Paula Christine on June 04, 2014, 11:12:07 AM
That's three of how many, percentage-wise?  Of the number of cis males I know in my life,
family, friends and coworkers.. three wouldn't even register a number..  Airplanes, boats, cars, bikes, houses, 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th wives.. -most-   and by most, I mean 60-70% or more, fall into this category.  If they don't have them, they want them.
I don't care about percentages I care about people. But I've noticed this attitude with trans women that somehow if you bash males it makes you more of a female. I'm here to tell you it don't! I had a discussion with a friend yesterday at work about what it was like to be a parent. And what he told me was the most sweetest most caring thing about the love he felt for his son. And you know what he likes sports but guess what he's a devoted husband and father. Are all men perfect? God no but neither are women but you should judge a person by the way they live they're life not by they're gender. And btw if 60-70% of the men you know act like this it's time to get a new group of friends. Or maybe you should ask yourself what about you attracts these sorts of men? Because I can tell you flat out I have no use for shallow men or women in my life. ;)
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Sephirah

Hmm. Having read the majority of this thread, something occurs to me. Some people accrue things because they think it defines them. Be that wealth, power, material possessions, whatever the case may be. For some people it's a way to show maybe the world, but moreso themselves who they are. A means of looking for something within themselves that the trappings they surround themselves with are merely a byproduct of. A method of addressing insecurity perhaps. Or a way of avoiding having to ask themselves questions about themselves and their lives. Perhaps a need to fit in. Or a way to somehow prove they "have what it takes".

During my time in the Navy, I saw a lot of that. From both men and women. As soon as they had, maybe for the first time, got some money behind them... disposable income, they started to buy things, and attempt to buy people. Why? Who knows. I do know that one lass who blew a huge chunk of change on a new car, that she barely ever even got to see, did it because it was the only way to prove to herself that she was good enough. Because growing up her family was very poor. Barely made ends meet most weeks, and some they didn't. She was the first person in her family to ever really do anything with her life (according to her). And that was her way to prove to them, and everyone who ever made fun of her, that she could have something expensive and flashy to call her own. It was her way to look at the car and know that even if she never drove it, she'd got to a place where she could have something like that. And it made her feel good about herself. 

All these things are often means by which one attempts to get society to see one as who they want to be seen as. An external validation of who someone wants to be. A need to prove oneself. To do what others do and impress in order to gain a boost in self-esteem. I don't find it so hard to see why some, most, or even all guys here don't automatically want the same things. Or elsewhere in the world for that matter. When it isn't drilled into you that you have to have all these things in order to be someone. When you come from an upbringing where emphasis is placed on who you are, not what you have. Or when you come from a place inside yourself that's taken sometimes years of pain, heartache, soul-searching and understanding to arrive at who you are... well, these symbols lose a lot of their symbolism. For some people, life just isn't a competition. A need to have the biggest and best. And that has nothing to do with gender. More a state of mind. If you have it you have it, if you don't you don't. You do what you feel you need to do to live your life how you want to live it. As a man, or a woman, or a non-binary. And whatever that is, more power to you. :)
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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randomroads

I've talked to PEOPLE who think they have to have expensive things in order to be someone in the world. They look down on people who have more practical tastes and only spend what they must in order to have a comfortable life despite a large bank account. It's always a good mix of both genders.

I just bought a very practical car. It only has 160 hp. It gets 40 mpg. I can cram three dogs, camping gear, and a friend inside.

If I had the desire to offend the women here, I'd find a bunch of those 'homemaking' blogs where women gush about the cookies they made and how they helped their 10 children make a scrapbook and post it to the women's section. I'm not particularly offended by the blog, but it is kind of uncomfortable that there's an agenda behind it with blatantly biased questions from the OP.
I believe in invisible pink unicorns

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randomroads

QuoteI don't care about percentages I care about people. But I've noticed this attitude with trans women that somehow if you bash males it makes you more of a female.

Thank you. I could rattle off some percentages of trans women who seem to have a vendetta against men of any ilk, but I remind myself that people are people and we all have our opinions.

QuoteIts like this, calling something a woman enjoys to do manly, because it is dominated by men, takes away from her femininity.
Calling something a man likes feminine because its associated with girls de masculinises them.

It's my choice to allow people to take away my 'masculinity'. What's really wrong with society is that so many people are caught up in the 'lets be politically correct and sensitive to everything all the time every day no matter way' bandwagon. It's amazing how easy life can be when you don't care what random people think of you. As long as I'm not hurting the ones I care about, and maintaining a professional face at work, who the f cares if some woman gets offended that I did or did not hold the door open for her at 7/11 or some man thinks I'm a '->-bleeped-<-' and endangering his marriage because I'm holding hands with my husband.
I believe in invisible pink unicorns

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Ms Grace

 :police:
This thread is going nowhere good - and BTW, telling trans men they sound like women is definitely uncool and highly offensive.
Grace
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Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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