Nero's original question was specifically about transwomen (then Nero, bless his little heart, added transmen into the mix). The question wasn't about people who view themselves 'gender defiant', genderfluid or genderqueer. A lot of people are adding layers of their own issues and pain to the question, issues that have more to do with people who don't want a gender binary, don't believe in a binary, don't feel a part of the gender binary. Which are all important feelings and things to talk about, but not very much having to do with core of the thread and, as I see it, are mixing up two very different issues.
Nor did Nero's question have to do with 'how the world should be' 'how should one behave towards a transitioner you initially don't connect to as their target gender" or 'what's wrong with doing this or not?' it was was more a survey of how we view people who not seem to us much like their target genders (not a genderqueer ideal society) and how we respond to them as a result. I wish people would respect that instead of highjacking the thread. This is an important question of both transpeople and cisgendered people and I think it's unfortunate it's being watered down (yes, I know that's judgmental, but how I feel) by people who are uncomfortable with its not especially nice but important premise. Moreover, I think there are a LOT of people not being especially honest about their emotions and reactions to people and are filtering them from what they ARE to what they WANT THEM TO BE. I would like to see people be honest about this situation:
You see two people. One is very tall, large boned, broad-shouldered with a strong, powerful bony face, possibly some 5 0'clock shadow, what possibly looks like a wig or not very styled long but thin hair, a very deep loud voice, large, thick hands, and walks with big strides. The other person is much smaller, has hair that looks like you'd see in a women's magazine, has a higher, softer voice, is fine boned, walks with smaller/lighter steps, has no sign of facial hair, face has smaller/more rounded features. So people here are telling me they have zero initial reaction as to the possible gender of each person? If so, I don't buy it. It's in the category of white people who say, "oh, I don't notice a person's race when I meet them, just whether they're a good person or not." Which I also don't believe. Nor do I believe, in this situation, that ANYONE, is really just experiencing inside "oh, these are just two very different looking women!" I do believe that some people are experiencing, "I want to be respectful of the first person's experience of themselves" or "why do I have to put people into categories" but I DON'T believe you're viewing those two people the same or as two different kinds of women (which was the premise of the thread). Don't buy it at all.
No, this is not a nice, supportive thread hand-holding people and making them feel positive about their transitions, it a tough-to-ask question that might make people squirm a bit. Moreover, it has a LOT to do with how MOST cisgendered people view those of us who aren't especially 'passable'. This stuff about transpeople being so much harder on themselves is a copout. It's cisgendered people who pass laws marginalizing us, cisgendered people who might not want their children taught by us and cisgendered people who might not be able to deal with having a relationship with us because that would make them 'gay.' However snotty people get on transforums, it's nothing compared to how the cisgendered world deals with those it can't easily absorb.
ciao,
Gina M.
