It seems like the forehead is one of the key markers of a male or female face. With that in mind, it's going to be the first FFS procedure for me.  I have a bit of an androgenous face already so can get by without having to do everything in the beginning

My question is...

Who is best at forehead reduction/reshaping?

Some of the people I like so far based on results I've seen online are...
1. Dr. Toby Mayer
2. Dr. Zukowski
3. Facial Team EU

Dr. Z appeals to me since he does the endoscopic procedure which I much prefer vs getting cut from ear to ear. I know that doctors who don't do the endoscopic procedure say you can;t get as good of results but... Dr. Z says those docs only say that because they're not trained to do the more modern procedure.  Each doctor makes a very compelling case for their approach so hard to know what to think or who to trust.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!!!

Thanks Angel for all the info and feedback.

I just wish I could get to the bottom of the whole endoscopic issue.  It's so hard to know who is right as Doctors will always put down procedures they don't do.  I've seen that in all specialties.

I do know that the old school facelift methods to do a browlift used the ear to ear incision but now that's obsolete.

Angel, curious who you used for the other procedures?

Angel, i've heard there are a lot of great surgeons on Harley Street.
Can you please post their names or PM them to me.

I guess though none of them could do the forehead work that your looking for
and that's why your going to Dr.Z.

Quote from: angel0202 on May 11, 2014, 12:19:39 PM
I have only met one FFs surgeon in person, Dr Bart de van, and all ill say is I was disappointed. I asked him lots of questions in a consultation and he basically seemed as though he was uninterested and looked at me as if I should leave. I talked about scheduling and he said "do you have a proposal from us", I could go on and on but basically very rude and uncomfortable vibe from him, but his work is good from my understanding and every one else seems to rave about him.

Wow ! This review of Dr. Bart is nothing short of a surprise to me, maybe he had just had a bad experience with another consultation that day you went? I just had a consultation with him this past Saturday and, I had the absolute opposite experience to yours... He seemed keen, willing, both him and his wife even payed me compliments and had a laugh every time my bf threw a joke at them (inspite of them being from mainland Europe and having a drier sense of humor)

He does stare a lot but seemed like he was assessing the face closely so he tends to be pensive cause he is coming up with the procedures he needs to suggest and then his wife goes ahead and writes the proposal in the mean time. This may sound strange but, I am glad to hear a different point of view of Dr. Bart than the mainstream, I mean, it can't all be good, all the time right?  although I am sorry you didn't enjoy your consultation with him... Could it have been that he felt bombarded with your questions? It just sounds so unlike him not to be nice to someone...

I am mentioning all this cause I decided to go to consult with him precisely for his forehead work... His results are constant and aggressive... And he didn't push any extra procedures in my case

I did go for rhino before hand before thinking of ffs... It is a good idea that you suggest that.

I just don't see how a Dr can achieve the results needed on half the trans population that don't have a thick enough anterior sinus wall using an endoscopic only approach, my mind just can't process that logic, not only that, but that way there isn't a reset of the eyebrows to a new more appropriate place after the forehead has lost bony volume... that's why I never thought of Dr. Z and Spiegel's results are way too subtle for my liking. I'm not really that crazy about any of the American or Thai ffs surgeons only one whose results seem nice is Toby Mayer...I have seen some great before and afters from the European surgeons and a Canadian Dr. Whose name slips my mind...

You do look very feminine already Melissa... I am happy to see another girl who has gone the whole nine yards before jumping to ffs ... It's time for me too .. Exciting times!!

"I have only met one FFs surgeon in person, Dr Bart de van, and all ill say is I was disappointed. I asked him lots of questions in a consultation and he basically seemed as though he was uninterested and looked at me as if I should leave. I talked about scheduling and he said "do you have a proposal from us", I could go on and on but basically very rude and uncomfortable vibe from him, but his work is good from my understanding and every one else seems to rave about him. "

I had the SAME experience... I flew all the way from Seattle to see Dr Bart and he seemed completely disinterested in me. The consultation was "meh" .. .he also forgot his laptop at home. I left Belgium feeling totally BLAH. It seems girls from mainland Europe have a better experience and the prices they are quoted appear lower too...  Funny enough he is doing a consultation in Seattle soon (where I live) but I think that is just because he happens to be on vacation here and Vancouver, BC at that time (he mentioned it during the consultation) anyhoo...  When I saw your comments it really echoed my exact experience and I had to comment on it.

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 10, 2014, 12:26:15 AM
"I have only met one FFs surgeon in person, Dr Bart de van, and all ill say is I was disappointed. I asked him lots of questions in a consultation and he basically seemed as though he was uninterested and looked at me as if I should leave. I talked about scheduling and he said "do you have a proposal from us", I could go on and on but basically very rude and uncomfortable vibe from him, but his work is good from my understanding and every one else seems to rave about him. "

I had the SAME experience... I flew all the way from Seattle to see Dr Bart and he seemed completely disinterested in me. The consultation was "meh" .. .he also forgot his laptop at home. I left Belgium feeling totally BLAH. It seems girls from mainland Europe have a better experience and the prices they are quoted appear lower too...  Funny enough he is doing a consultation in Seattle soon (where I live) but I think that is just because he happens to be on vacation here and Vancouver, BC at that time (he mentioned it during the consultation) anyhoo...  When I saw your comments it really echoed my exact experience and I had to comment on it.

I had the same feeling with him after he responded back to my email I had sent him to get his feedback on what I needed to correct the mistakes made.

Five weeks post FFS with Dr Z.  I had really extensive work.  Far, far more than what the OP needs. I actually had 10 different procedures at the same time.  I had serious facial issues


Jen

This is really subjective.

The thing is, I really think there's a push by many girls to get rid of every even slightly masculine feature, no matter how attractive it looks or works in toto. Many very attractive cisgirls have certain manly features like strong jaws or prominent brow bossing, and they have no problems finding work as actresses or models.

Unfortunately I don't looklike my avatar yet(Gina Carano) but I could easily pass for her brother now. She's about my frame size, build and height, and has a strong jaw. And despite that she's very smexy.

An overdone face IMO sometimes doesn't work because it doesn't match the body. Fact is, a girl 5'10"-6' with the neonotonous face of a preteen doesn't look right. Bigger girls have bigger features, and sometimes the most striking and attractive feature is a more androgenized one.

Regarding foreheads, DiMaggio seems to be the best currently. He does full type 3 reconstruction, while most others stick with type 1 shaving or type 2 shave/fill.

For me it depends on my sinus. I remember having a very thick sinus wall from my youth where I needed X-rays due to issues, so I may be lucky enough to take type 1 successfully. I've seen Mayer's results in person and they're amazing. So what if I still have some slight bossing? Go out in the world and look at the cisgirls with the same or more that not only look natural but sometimes even hot!.

I've always thought Z is a little overdone and cookie cutter at times, but there's some girls that are perfect for his technique. This isn't something where there is one perfect ffs surgeon and a bunch of lessors, this is something where there are a bunch of very good ones with different techniques and strengths, and the best one for one girl may not be the best or another.

Quote from: ErinS on June 11, 2014, 01:49:13 PM
This is really subjective.

The thing is, I really think there's a push by many girls to get rid of every even slightly masculine feature, no matter how attractive it looks or works in toto. Many very attractive cisgirls have certain manly features like strong jaws or prominent brow bossing, and they have no problems finding work as actresses or models.

Unfortunately I don't looklike my avatar yet(Gina Carano) but I could easily pass for her brother now. She's about my frame size, build and height, and has a strong jaw. And despite that she's very smexy.

An overdone face IMO sometimes doesn't work because it doesn't match the body. Fact is, a girl 5'10"-6' with the neonotonous face of a preteen doesn't look right. Bigger girls have bigger features, and sometimes the most striking and attractive feature is a more androgenized one.

Regarding foreheads, DiMaggio seems to be the best currently. He does full type 3 reconstruction, while most others stick with type 1 shaving or type 2 shave/fill.

For me it depends on my sinus. I remember having a very thick sinus wall from my youth where I needed X-rays due to issues, so I may be lucky enough to take type 1 successfully. I've seen Mayer's results in person and they're amazing. So what if I still have some slight bossing? Go out in the world and look at the cisgirls with the same or more that not only look natural but sometimes even hot!.

I've always thought Z is a little overdone and cookie cutter at times, but there's some girls that are perfect for his technique. This isn't something where there is one perfect ffs surgeon and a bunch of lessors, this is something where there are a bunch of very good ones with different techniques and strengths, and the best one for one girl may not be the best or another.

I'm not sure, I've seen many taller women with very feminine features, albeit their features are larger, but they are still feminine and in proportion. Cis-gendered women with masculine features really isn't the same thing as trans women with masculine features. While some masculine features may be seen as modelesque in cis-gendered women, they don't often appear that way in trans women (usually) there are some exceptions I'm sure. Regarding forehead, I had a type I completed with Cardenas. For type I he did an excellent job, and although my brow bossing is gone and my forehead is mostly convex (compared to what it was) my frontal sinus still remains prominent. I don't particularly find a prominent frontal sinus to be attractive on women in general and will likely have this redone. I was thinking of having it done with DiMaggio but I'm not sure if that's what I'll do yet...   I may actually have Cardenas do it. There is another girl going for surgery this month who is planning to have type III with Cardenas and said she'll be posting her results...  Hang tight everyone    

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 10, 2014, 12:26:15 AM
"I have only met one FFs surgeon in person, Dr Bart de van, and all ill say is I was disappointed. I asked him lots of questions in a consultation and he basically seemed as though he was uninterested and looked at me as if I should leave. I talked about scheduling and he said "do you have a proposal from us", I could go on and on but basically very rude and uncomfortable vibe from him, but his work is good from my understanding and every one else seems to rave about him. "

I had the SAME experience... I flew all the way from Seattle to see Dr Bart and he seemed completely disinterested in me. The consultation was "meh" .. .he also forgot his laptop at home. I left Belgium feeling totally BLAH. It seems girls from mainland Europe have a better experience and the prices they are quoted appear lower too...  Funny enough he is doing a consultation in Seattle soon (where I live) but I think that is just because he happens to be on vacation here and Vancouver, BC at that time (he mentioned it during the consultation) anyhoo...  When I saw your comments it really echoed my exact experience and I had to comment on it.

Thank god it wasn't just me, iv seen about 10 surgeons for various things, and I was actually really offended after I left, and im a nice person, would not have given him any reason for him to take a dislike to me. He made no effort to make me feel comfortable it was plain AWKWARD, and no contact from him after the consult.

 "Cis-gendered women with masculine features really isn't the same thing as trans women with masculine features"

Absolutely! The point I'm trying to make is that FFS is to look naturally female, and you need to keep in mind that cisgirls with larger frames tend to have slightly more androgenized features than average, and trans women also fall into the above average category. I've clocked people before simply because their ffs was so aggressive it looked out of place.

Like I said, it's a very subjective thing. Personally part of me wants to go hog wild and scrape away every last vestige of manhood, but I also know I don't need that much to look attractive and passable.

I'm 4 weeks out from surgery with Dr. Cardenas and as noted below, you can still see my sinus, especially in the light. Noticeable shadow on the right side, which is my left side (See picture below)  Type III will be needed to resolve this... Not sure at this time if I'm going back to Cardenas to do it or to someone else.


1 month post op straight on:

Has anyone here had type III with DiMaggio?

Yeah. I've had. I think it looks natural and femenine. I think he only does type III, I think he told me that's the only way to really shape it that way.

Quote from: kaleymo on June 15, 2014, 01:09:33 PM
Yeah. I've had. I think it looks natural and femenine. I think he only does type III, I think he told me that's the only way to really shape it that way.

Thank you, Kaleymo. Have you had any complications with your sinuses post surgery? How long ago was your surgery? Are you happy with your experience with Dr.DiMaggio? Any information or advice you can share? Thanks again!   -J

No, some normal bruising and swelling (the regular stuff) but the forehead seems fine and no problem with sinuses yet. It was a little more than a month ago.

The Dr is very good himself. I won't lie, travelling to Buenos Aires is no walk in the park. But the Dr and his assistant checked on me frequently, and I saw them taking care of my needs and the needs of another patient that was there at the time. Medically I was well covered. I'm sure if I planned a bit better it would've been easier (I took someone with me, so she did all the shopping I neglected to do pre surgery like food). After that though, it's a nice city to visit and it's refreshing to be in a different place. I'm glad I got a chance to visit, in the end.

I can answer any other question you have.

Quote from: kaleymo on June 15, 2014, 04:40:22 PM
No, some normal bruising and swelling (the regular stuff) but the forehead seems fine and no problem with sinuses yet. It was a little more than a month ago.

The Dr is very good himself. I won't lie, travelling to Buenos Aires is no walk in the park. But the Dr and his assistant checked on me frequently, and I saw them taking care of my needs and the needs of another patient that was there at the time. Medically I was well covered. I'm sure if I planned a bit better it would've been easier (I took someone with me, so she did all the shopping I neglected to do pre surgery like food). After that though, it's a nice city to visit and it's refreshing to be in a different place. I'm glad I got a chance to visit, in the end.

I can answer any other question you have.

Thank you! How do you feel about the chin/jaw work he did? Assuming he did?  thanks again! -J

My cat has a prominent frontal sinus... Does Dr. DiMaggio do work on cats too? =^..^= 

Quote from: kaleymo on June 15, 2014, 01:09:33 PM
Yeah. I've had. I think it looks natural and femenine. I think he only does type III, I think he told me that's the only way to really shape it that way.

Hi Kaleymo. Did you have any other procedures with Dr DiMaggio. He has given me a price, it is more than I thought it would be, but Ive heard that he is the best at foreheads. Do you know how he is with chins and jaws? He also said I need an "open rhinoplasty" as my nose is very badly damaged. I have not heard of this "open" procedure before, have you, if so what can you tell me about it? Thank you for your time.