Southern Baptists approve resolutions on transgender identity, the afterlife and casinos

By Carol McPhail | on June 10, 2014 at 2:22 PM

MOBILE, Alabama -- Southern Baptist delegates approved resolutions at the denomination's annual meeting Tuesday on topics ranging from transgender identity and Hollywood's portrayal of the afterlife to government support of casinos and lotteries.

On transgender identity, the delegates affirmed that "God's good design that gender identity is determined by biological sex and not by one's self-perception." The resolution, which was approved, urges transgender people to "trust in Christ and to experience renewal in the Gospel."

More: http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2014/06/southern_baptists_approve_reso.html

Translation?

A group of humans got together recently to decide for themselves what gods wishes are. After making sure no decision made affected themselves, they proceeded to conclude that because they don't like a specific group that god deems it ok to be ignorant.

"Gender is decided by biological sex"? There is no such thing. I mean what is it? its definitely NOT your chromosomes :/.
That alone suggests, these people don't know what your talking about.

What would they call a person with AIS? (That's biology)
Or a person with 47 XXY? (Don't think they would agree these people are both)

So what is the argument?
  "We retain the right to judge people how they look and we're going to use a word like biology and god to sound like we know what we're talking about and in some way justified in our ignorance"


GOD is no longer in that church, just people that like to feel as if there better then everyone ells.

This is not much of a surprise, and it's just typical of a religious group that has willingly put themselves on the wrong side of history.  The Southern Baptist Convention was formed in 1845 following a split from northern Baptists over the issue of forbidding Southern slave-owners from becoming ordained missionaries. They became Southern Baptists because they wanted to be slave owners more than they wanted to be righteous.

This is the 21st century version of religious narrow-mindedness, and it's why organized religion is in trouble these days.

Really, seriously? So our Souls are supposed to be what our physical bodies are? I guess these are the same people that think they will be driving thier Cadillacs in heaven on gold paved streets. It never ceases to amaze me how people that are supposed to be so Spiritual are so mired down in the material world that they can't distinguish the differences between the body and Spirit.

Can we not turn this into bashing of southern baptists? I'm not religious, but my cultural background is southern baptist, and a lot of those people are just living with what they know and the way they've been raised. Even if you don't like them, how they deal with us is certainly relevant and worth approaching with diplomacy. They won't be so mean and small-minded if they get to know us as family members and neighbors, but they'll buckle down harder if we hate them back when they're being short-sighted.

Quote from: Felix on June 14, 2014, 07:05:53 AM
Can we not turn this into bashing of southern baptists? I'm not religious, but my cultural background is southern baptist, and a lot of those people are just living with what they know and the way they've been raised. Even if you don't like them, how they deal with us is certainly relevant and worth approaching with diplomacy. They won't be so mean and small-minded if they get to know us as family members and neighbors, but they'll buckle down harder if we hate them back when they're being short-sighted.

If people express bigoted hateful speech, they have to be prepared for the consequences when those hurt by said speech defend themselves.

With that said, thats no excuse to sink to their level, its far more effective to neutralize them through using the power of information and truth than to react in a non compassionate way that involves some level of anger and hate for them.

But even then, were only humans, back someone into a corner and they will bite back, its only natural, instincts. Its not ideal, but its how things are.

Quote from: John F. KennedyThose who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

If someone decides to support messages of intolerance and hatred, they need to be realistic about the world they live in, there are consequences that nobody would ideally support, but can happen in the heat of the moment if the wrong person is pushed enough.

Its a horrible truth, but its true either way. Im sure everyone would prefer to settle things in a peaceful compassionate mindful way, and i sure hope it happens, after all hate can never dispel hate, only love can dispel hate. Aggression can only ever create more aggression.

It is hard to deal with such situations, but its equally important for us to find our center, make space for peace within ourselves and to do all we can to resolve conflicts in the only true way possible.

Using Compassion, Understanding, Empathy, Unconditional Love, Concentration and Mindfulness

Quote from: Felix on June 14, 2014, 07:05:53 AM. . . a lot of those people are just living with what they know and the way they've been raised.

I'll agree with that statement on an individual-by-individual basis.  If someone who is ill-informed about gender issues asks me a strange or intrusive question, makes incorrect assumptions about what or who I am, or if they misgender me, I'll make allowances for the fact that they might know no better or perhaps that they think it's how they're supposed to treat me.  It's a great educational opportunity and a chance to show someone that we're not what they might expect (in a good way).

But when an entire group of 5,000 - which I cannot believe for one moment doesn't have some members who know better - is presented with a statement so clearly incorrect and not one of them stands up and says, "You know what guys, this is pretty hateful and just plain wrong," I have my doubts that we can give them a pass based on blanket ignorance rather than just calling it for what it really is: endemic intolerance.

While individual spirituality is absolutely harmless, let's not forget that organized religion is often nothing more than a semi-political tool used to legitimize bigotry.

It is unfortunate that this group defines gender by biology, and being Baptist myself and coming out to my wife as TG, I've been on the brunt of a lot of negativity and their definition of biology is the plumbing. They have no clue about the Gender Spectrum and refuse to listen to someone unless they have a "Christian" perspective. Heck, my wife still believes the earth and universe are 6,000 years old. Rational discussion is sometimes not possible.

Hugs,

Traci

Quote from: Felix on June 14, 2014, 07:05:53 AM
Can we not turn this into bashing of southern baptists? I'm not religious, but my cultural background is southern baptist, and a lot of those people are just living with what they know and the way they've been raised. Even if you don't like them, how they deal with us is certainly relevant and worth approaching with diplomacy. They won't be so mean and small-minded if they get to know us as family members and neighbors, but they'll buckle down harder if we hate them back when they're being short-sighted.

^^^ That is one approach...

I rather side with....

Even though many Cities and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo Southern Baptist and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail.

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Alabama,
we shall fight on the malls and schools,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the courts, we shall defend our rights, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the facebook,
we shall fight on the newspapers,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the radio;
we shall never surrender,

after W. Churchill

This is a decision based on their theology and doctrine. For purposes of this discussion:
Theology - study of God
Doctrine - teachings and practices resulting from ones theology.

Theology is viewed from the prism of ones cultural background and personal biases.

Of the top of my head, I believe that Southern Baptists are a conservative group, and base their theology on a literal bible.  As a result, their theology and doctrine regarding transgender lies along the lines of condemnation of transition, but loving the sinning transexual.  (I am expressing their viewpoint).  I could certainly raise issues with their lens/viewpoint, but it is what they as a group believe, regardless of ones personal sympathies.

As a group, if we bash and condemn them, then we do no better than them, and will have no chance of moving their position.

Some thoughts to dwell on, maybe?

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world."

"An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind."

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win."

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is like an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

Mahatma Gandhi

Quote from: luna nyan on July 23, 2014, 03:30:26 AM

Of the top of my head, I believe that Southern Baptists are a conservative group, and base their theology on a literal bible.  As a result, their theology and doctrine regarding transgender lies along the lines of condemnation of transition, but loving the sinning transexual.  (I am expressing their viewpoint).  I could certainly raise issues with their lens/viewpoint, but it is what they as a group believe, regardless of ones personal sympathies.

As a group, if we bash and condemn them, then we do no better than them, and will have no chance of moving their position.

We shouldn't bash or condemn but try to educate. However, as I am married to an independent fundamental Baptist (they think Southern Baptists are too liberal) some people will not listen to reason. Many of these people still believe the earth is 6,000 years old. All we can do is continue to try to educate that there is more to gender identity than original plumbing that makes a person male or female.

Hugs,

Traci

!

Traci,

Southern baptists are already too fundy for my taste, and you're married to someone more extreme. There is going to be a lot of work ahead for you and your SO if there is goin to be any civilised discourse...

As far as the Genesis narrative is concerned, there are many ways of looking at it, but let's not get bogged down on that here.

Wishing you luck and patience,
Luna

Quote from: peky on July 22, 2014, 05:59:44 PM
^^^ That is one approach...

I rather side with....

Even though many Cities and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo Southern Baptist and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail.

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in Alabama,
we shall fight on the malls and schools,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the courts, we shall defend our rights, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the facebook,
we shall fight on the newspapers,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the radio;
we shall never surrender,

after W. Churchill

Serious question....How do we fight or what do we fight with?

Jen

Luna,

Thanks for the well wishes. There will be no rational discourse. When I begin HRT, its over. We just have to figure out how to best split and not upset my son's life (like that's a possibility. we raised him well to be a good little fundy so I probably lose him too.) She wasn't always so rabidly fundamental and I wasn't always so dysphoric. But "It is what it is."

My advice for anyone who is trans, the idea has ever crossed their mind that they might be trans, be a cross-dresser, don't date or fall in love with a fundy, find someone more open-minded like maybe a Methodist, or better yet a Wiccan.

Hugs All,

Traci

Quote from: JLT1 on July 24, 2014, 09:30:43 AM
Serious question....How do we fight or what do we fight with?

Jen

Science is on our side, and has been used by our advocates to enable the decision makers with the justification to pass laws that benefits.

The educated media, and their reporting of trans news, have been a great way to turn the tide against the obscurantist and religious extremists

Hollywood has put a positive spin on trans issues thereby enhancing acceptance and tolerance by the general chusma (plebeians)

Some religious organizations are and have been powerful advocates of our rights,

and the Democratic party of course, sans a few Neanderthals

Traci,

So your family has not explored the basis for other positions in Christianity?  Personally, I find discussion with fundy Christians difficult, as they tend to have blinkers on and refuse to see the validity of other viewpoints.

Many fundamentalist Christians I know, base their doctrine on a simplistic dogma.  It is easy to make decisions and judgements when things are black or white, and the beauty of fundy Christianity is that the areas of grey are also coloured black or white.

Perhaps someday your family may see that things are not so black and white in the scriptures.  Until then, you have my sympathies in discussing things with them.


Peky,

Although rational science may give evidence based answers to these people, the true issue at hand is how they theologically define what is male or female.  Cultural shifts may happen in the secular world, but the attitude of some sections of Christianity is to view deviations as a reflection of a fallen world.

A pure biological explanation may not be sufficient for acceptance by some Christian groups.  Their theology has to change in order for doctrine to follow, but that may never happen, or may be a long time in happening.

Thanks for your sympathy Luna, It is appreciated. I know I got myself into it when I decided to accept the Bible as fact, hook, line and sinker. But after I became a lay preacher and through much study came up with too many contradictions which to this day, I can't get any of them to acknowledge. They keep their blinders on even though I've now fallen away.

Yes Peky, The extreme fundy viewpoint is God said it, it is true. If the Bible said the moon was made of green cheese you'd have these people spouting the  moon is made of cheese. That's why they've developed a whole alternative science to show the earth is 6,000 years old. According to them God made male and female - never mind that there are people born intersexed. Just overlook those and look to the plumbing to see if they're male or female. The gender spectrum is a figment of our imagination.

Unfortunately a split in the family is coming. Its just when I decide to start HRT.

Hugs girls,

Traci

btw you should have seen her flip out when I got my first check for an erotic novel I had published yeow!

So let me get this straight...an organization that prays to imaginary claims it's not "okay" to be who I am? They then want me to further embrace their delusions? That's down right freaking hilarious!

Traci,

For me, a person of scientific bent and background, there is much truth about human nature in the Bible.  By faith, I have come to my relationship with Jesus Christ.  My life experience has had too many weird coincidences for me to not say that there is something out there beyond human ken.

I hope that the reason you have left the church is more because of issues with theology, rather than the actions of others.  If it is the latter, then for what it's worth, you have my apologies on their behalf.

Quote from: Natalie on July 25, 2014, 02:21:54 PM
So let me get this straight...an organization that prays to imaginary claims it's not "okay" to be who I am? They then want me to further embrace their delusions? That's down right freaking hilarious!

Ah, that's the beauty of it.  To them, you are the delusional one, the one in denial of the true reality of things.  As previously posted, let's not get into religious bashing. 

Perhaps some day, I might post something for discussion in the religion/spirituality section and you can poke fun at me there.

The position that the Southern Baptists have taken is not surprising.  That is all.  And nothing will come of it until the group changes a lot of their theological and doctrinal positions.