Hey, I'm new here, but have been reading around on different forums here for some time. Hope that doesn't sound suss, or wrong. Anyways.... I've had some rather prominent difficulty getting people to understand what I'm comfortable with in intimate situations, and why/why not. It seems that no one really wants to accept my boundaries. As a note, I am bi, bottom, and prefer men, especially other transmen that like men as well. Other transmen seem more inclined to accept, and understand my boundaries, but cismen don't. Neither do females, of any kind (Again, apologies for the crappy wording, not meaning to offend anyone). I understand this topic has probably been brought up somewhere along the lines, but I can't find it, so.....

I've been on T for almost 8 months, I'm Australian, live in Queensland, on the Gold Coast. I am a very introverted type of guy, i.e, I don't like being drawn attention to unless I seek it myself, if that makes any sense. I am pre-op, and some of my boundaries are no touching my chest, at all, my binder stays on, most of the time I wear a shirt as well. I don't like any of those areas looked at, especially my chest and hip area. I don't like my junk to be stared at, and definitely don't like it to be touched. Unless it's with someone I REALLY trust, then that area and it's boundaries change. My problem seems to be that a lot of gay cismen want to...... Y'know, use that part of me (Sorry if that offended anyone). I don't like being penetrated, I can't deal with it. They also use female terms when they talk about my junk, which makes me dysphoric. I have come to terms (Mostly) with what I have, as long as male terms are used, for both my junk, and any actions regarding it. Cismen don't use them, and don't respect me at all. I was wondering how some of you guys tell people so that they actually listen, and apply what you tell them. I've become rather self-indulged (Excuse the pun, only way I could explain it), and find it rather boring. Does anyone else have these issues? Thanks, any advice is much appreciated, and sorry if this topic has already been covered.

I think its a bottom problem in general.
ive only been with a few men and each time hands wonder. AND when they wonder too close to my "no go" zones and don't show any signs of stopping I simply move the hand ta place I do like being touched. If this happens twice and then hands wonder for a third time ill move them again but ill definitely bring it up after.

"did you enjoy THAT?"
"not as much as I would of liked"
they usually have no idea. "why?"
"because you keep moving your hands to places  I don't like"

and having my junk referred to in anyway, turns me off and kills my mood. "I mention this before hand"
so when that happens I just say it like it is. "that's it cant do this, not in the mood no more"

why? because I told you before I don't like being reminded that part of my  body exists, its extremely depressing that it is there. But now you've reminded me im not in the mood no more sorry.

setting boundaries is one thing, but we have to police those boundaries. And assert our reasons why, for the justice system to work. it takes time for this to sink in to some, and others just don't care what we want as long as they get what they want. The process of relationships is to weed out the ones that don't care.

although there are those that will respect you in order to get what they want, the level of respect needed is up to you.
trans man, have experienced disrespectful sexual dominancy them self, and have learned what marginalisation of boundaries is like.
and by their existences more of understanding these boundaries.

NO offence intended to anyone. If people disagree by all means bring it up with me or start a different topic. But understand this is an attempt to help somebody and I wouldn't like for this thread to diverge from help to the OP.

I know im not F2M but as a bottom, I still think I can help here.

Hope this helps

- Victoria

See, I don't even like being called, or referred to, as an FTM, or anything like that. I don't like acknowledging how I was born, an I don't like others doing it either. I came out a very young age (19 now), and always did my best to pass as a dude, from as early as I can remember. I do tell these guys why I don't like it, for me it's not so much that I feel dysphoric about what I have being there, but I like it to be treated how the rst of me is treated, in a male way. I don't like it when people use the v word, because to me, it isn't one. That being said, I don't like being reminded it isn't a dick either, so D is usually how I go about calling it, and that's what I expect from anyone who wants to get intimate with me. Or just junk. I always tell them I don't like hands near my pants at all, because I don't like being reminded that it's made of silicone instead of skin. It also awkwardly arouses my T growth, which I don't like happening in front of people. It's embarrassing, and I still haven't learnt why I *feel* like I have a hard on, but don't, it makes me want to cry and rip myself into pieces. I don't even like my ass being touched, because that arouses me as well, and awkward. If hands go anywhere near me, I move them off, and  I'll do that twice before telling the person to piss off and stop being a rabid monster. I have a very excitable sex drive, but T doesn't realise that I haven't got the body to match it, so I've learnt self-control as a defense mechanism. As much as I'm a bottom, I'm a very dominant and in control bottom, if I don't like something, the top, or just the other person, is going to know about it. Thanks for your reply, by the way, much appreciated.

Most of us who have body dysphoria have a list of things that we don't like done to us or don't enjoy about intimacy.  You have a pretty specific list - and I think that any sensitive lover will be happy to comply in whatever way that will help you to enjoy the experience.

Just blurt it out once you're sure that you're getting it on.  I can't be sure from your post, but it seems like you're also saying that you've set these boundaries with people and they still went ahead and touched you where you didn't want them to.  Okay - well, that's an obvious solution - stop it.  If someone's hand wanders once - maybe that was unintentional, but if it happens again - cut to the chase and bring the games to an end.  If you let people get away with that then you're just defeating yourself.

Very true. I usually do give off a very "don't touch me" kind of air, well at least to me anyways. I always listen to music or read, and if someone does approach me, I hate being rude, but most of the time I ignore them. Like I said, if I'm interested, I will seek out intimacy by myself. Most of the time, I only go to gay bars etc, to talk to my friends and likeminded people. I'm not as sex crazed as they seem to be, putting it that way. If they touch, I move away, but they usually follow, because it seems to them that it's more enticing for them to keep doing things I tell them not to, or give off signs that I don't like being done. If they follow, and touch me again, I straight up tell them to piss off and mind their own business. But again, most people- especially the gay cismen I come across, are enticed by my rejection/disinterest. I wish I could find some way to alleviate this problem, besides completely isolating myself from my own friends :/

Yeah, thats difficult, and also the reason why I tend to avoid gay cismen. I am bi (or actually pan), myself too, and have a preference for guys, mainly transguys too. Why transguys? They understand what I feel, I understand what they feel, and I'll much easier open up to them, cause I know they wont see me as less male for the junk I have or call it wrong names, etc. If someone doesn't respect my boundaries, refers to my junk with the V word, calls me 'she' or 'girl' (I am not on T and feel like I don't pass well), or touches me down below they are OUT. Okay, with ONE accidental touch and one time saying the V word I'd correct them and give them ONE more chance, but if they call me a girl, no excuses. It's over. If they don't listen to my boundaries, goodbye. I am awkward and dysphoric enough already as it is, I can't even masturbate cause it will give me more dysphoria than pleasure, let alone let someone do stuff.

I didn't even know what masturbation was before I started T, and I cry every time I..... Yeah, it isn't enjoyable for me. I didn't even know orgasms existed either, and at this stage, I honestly wish they didn't exist. I just feel wrong every time, and like I said, cry. I don't do it because I want to, I do it because I have to. You pass fine as far as I can see, by the way. Not that what others thinks matters. I correct people that use the wrong pronouns all the time, I get sick of it, repeating myself, and I don't like sounding like a complete ->-bleeped-<-, but honestly, most of the time, I wonder if cisgender folk even have a brain or heart in them. I always get gay cismen that say "Oh, so you're trans*? That means you have a (insert v word here)? Or have you had your operation already?" Idiots, and so rude. I hate it how the media and so forth exposes trans* people in a manner that is obsessive with bodies and genitalia, and secondary characteristics. But that's me. I wish I could go out more, but it's safer for me to just lock myself in my house. I've honestly even had other transmen that have wanted to have that kind of sex with me, or have asked me about that. *face palm* I'm one of those guys that will just never be satisfied with the bottom surgery techniques on offer, and I'm a pensioner, so I'll never be able to afford bottom surgery. It would be great on me, if I could just completely ignore what I have, but T does what T does. Sigh.

Sounds like the cis guys you've been with just...suck. There are people out there, cis and trans, who will 100% respect your boundaries and do their absolute best to ensure that they don't set off any discomfort. I guess it's just harder in general for cis guys because they aren't used to those boundaries and can't understand the discomfort or upset it causes.

Do you talk to them about intimate stuff beforehand? If not, make sure you do once you know there's a possibility of stuff like that happening. It's not an easy conversation, but it'll get easier, and let's face it, an awkward conversation is much more enjoyable than dysphoria. Tell them what you don't like, what to avoid, and make sure they know that certain things are off-limits. If they don't respect that, get rid of them. Seriously, don't waste your time giving a second chance to someone who willingly does something they know you don't like.

Yes, I always tell them what I'm comfortable with etc, beforehand. Just how I'm doing it isn't getting through with anyone. I'll just be a loner for the rest of my life, it's cool. Sucks, but I can deal with that.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on June 11, 2014, 07:09:36 AM
I think its a bottom problem in general.
ive only been with a few men and each time hands wonder. AND when they wonder too close to my "no go" zones and don't show any signs of stopping I simply move the hand ta place I do like being touched. If this happens twice and then hands wonder for a third time ill move them again but ill definitely bring it up after.

"did you enjoy THAT?"
"not as much as I would of liked"
they usually have no idea. "why?"
"because you keep moving your hands to places  I don't like"

and having my junk referred to in anyway, turns me off and kills my mood. "I mention this before hand"
so when that happens I just say it like it is. "that's it cant do this, not in the mood no more"

why? because I told you before I don't like being reminded that part of my  body exists, its extremely depressing that it is there. But now you've reminded me im not in the mood no more sorry.

setting boundaries is one thing, but we have to police those boundaries. And assert our reasons why, for the justice system to work. it takes time for this to sink in to some, and others just don't care what we want as long as they get what they want. The process of relationships is to weed out the ones that don't care.

although there are those that will respect you in order to get what they want, the level of respect needed is up to you.
trans man, have experienced disrespectful sexual dominancy them self, and have learned what marginalisation of boundaries is like.
and by their existences more of understanding these boundaries.

NO offence intended to anyone. If people disagree by all means bring it up with me or start a different topic. But understand this is an attempt to help somebody and I wouldn't like for this thread to diverge from help to the OP.

I know im not F2M but as a bottom, I still think I can help here.

Hope this helps

- Victoria

Never any intimacy here (as it is even a non-intimate touch sometimes bothers me), but I think you've given me a clue as to how I could handle it if/when I get there. Hand wanders, move it someplace else that I'm more comfortable with, subtle clues that shouldn't have to rely on words, unless they (guy or girl) is just totally clueless, stubborn or disrespectful of your feelings.

I've had similar problems. I've broken it off with guys I liked when they couldn't be respectful of my need to keep my binder on during sex. Transguys are awesome for not needing to have that kind of thing explained more than once.

It does sound like you know what you want. If you can be that explicit about it, there's no reason to put up with people who don't listen.

I'm okay with hearing female terms for my genitalia, and I'm okay with using the hole that shouldn't exist, but only with partners who seem to have a real understanding of who I am. If they see me as a guy with a vagina, I can accept that. If they see me as a girl who looks like a guy it's a huge turnoff.

Masturbation is kind of a separate issue. I figured out how to do that when I was 4 or 5, got in trouble in early primary school for it because I didn't know it was a private thing, and while that wasn't the most socially functional way to enter the situation, I think I'm healthier for it. I don't necessarily associate it with gender at all, and it seems sometimes like a shortcut out of the problems of being trans. Having sexual experiences outside of sex is useful. Like, I can have all the problems in the world with living as a man, but I know how to operate the machinery I live with.

It's not just that they use the v word, they also insist in reminding me that I have an extremely small penis. Or that I must have if I'm trans*. I don't consider what I have to be a penis, like I've said, I call it D, or just junk. I don't ever take my binder off, and I don't know how many times I've had to say that I don't like my chest being touched or acknowledged even though I am binding. I admit, it is pretty damned difficult to have sex with me because of my boundaries, but boundaries are boundaries. So like much everything else, I have given up on ever having a sex life. Whatever, I'd rather be alone than to be treated like crap by people that don't even know me.