When I first recognized that I was trans, but before I fully owned up to it, the word that triggered my realization was "transgender." I was able to recognize myself as "transgender" when I heard a professor give a talk at a conference about LGBT people. When he gave the definition of "transgender" I said inside myself, "So this feeling of mine has a name!" But somehow I managed to keep denying that I was trans for a year and a half after that. Eventually it became much too obvious to deny: it kept alerting my subconscious in all kinds of ways, until I finally owned up to being "transgender."

The human mind's capacity for denial is truly phenomenal. I had spent my whole life telling myself: "Yeah, I want really bad to be a woman--but I'm not one of those transsexuals." I guess that shows the depth of the fear I felt if I would ever open up that door--I must have sensed that once embarked on the journey I would never come back.

To learn that the definition of transgender was one's inner sense of gender identity being other from what I was assigned made it so much easier for me to admit that's what I was. But the day I finally acknowledged to myself, "Yes, I am transgendered," that left me with no idea what to do about it. All I had was the bare realization that my inner self is a woman. Transition still did not seem like a possibility. I was in the public library at the time, and borrowed the book Crossing: A Memoir by Deirdre McCloskey, because it was the only trans book they had. My first sight of her on the cover--wearing a dress--made me scared all over again. Is that going to happen to me? I'm not one of those transsexuals, am I?

But I immediately read right through the book, and learned about transition. At first I still could not conceive of myself actually doing that. I remember spending the first few months telling my therapist I can only see a little ways ahead of me on this journey, I don't know where I'm actually going with it. Transition seemed like too much to take on and my family would never tolerate it. Which left me with the dilemma--I know I'm a woman, but what to do about it? It seemed to call for doing something, but what?

At this time, when I read the definition of "transgenderist"--someone who identifies with the other gender and lives as that gender but without transition-- I thought that must be me. I wasn't even sure at first if I should go on HRT (though all along I knew I wanted it)--and SRS was too daunting to contemplate. So I maintained an agnostic attitude about whether I was "pre-op" or "no-op."

But after about a year exploring ->-bleeped-<-, I was desperate to begin hormones and knew I wanted to transition. I knew I wanted SRS and the whole deal, to fully live as a woman in every possible respect. For over a year now, I've stopped using the word "transgender" for myself and now understand that I really am one of those transsexuals, and I'm nearly at the point of transitioning now. It was just so hard to accept at first. I needed time to get used to the idea.

Now, I'm skeptical about the concept of "transgender" at all--the term is so vague, it doesn't really mean anything. So I think transsexuals should be clear that we're transsexual and forgo the word "transgender." Especially after learning that the word was coined by crossdresser Virginia Prince to describe other crossdressers and specifically to exclude transsexuals, because Prince was a phobe who hated transsexuals. So no more "transgender" for me--I think the word should probably be retired, since it doesn't serve much of a useful purpose, it's more confusing or obfuscating than anything. Maybe it could still apply to "transgenderists" who identify as the other gender but don't transition. But then what are crossdressers still doing using it? I don't think GID people should be lumped into the same category as crossdressers or drag queens because we are fundamentally very different.

On second thought, maybe the word "transgender" was very useful for me after all, because it allowed me to finally open that door and go through it, to where I'm now about to transition. It had temporary relevance for me, though I needed to move on from it. Maybe it will help other newbies to begin to understand who they are. But now I really don't want it any more. Your thoughts?

I prefer transgender as an umbrella term because it is vague.  I don't feel like I need a term that specifically states the state of my genitals, or sets up any sort of weird separation between myself and other aspects of the gender bending/breaking community.

Plus Transsexual is a bothersome term for me because it places direct attention on the sexual, when it's really not about what's between your legs or in your bedroom.  But that sexual part of the term--it's like you're just asking for people to bug you about your genitals and orientation.

I'm not gender bending. I'm a woman and I feel no identification with androgynous or genderqueer--I'm just a woman. Knowing that Virginia Prince coined the term "transgender" as a transsexual-phobic word has seriously tainted it for me.

Lots of us feel that "transsexual" isn't the best word for it, and some have tried to coin new terms that are more precise, like "Harry Benjamin Syndrome" (HBS) or "Atypical Gender Development" (AGD). But these have not generally caught on, and at this point there's no sign that they will catch on. So like it or not, the specific word for us in the English language is transsexual. All I know is, "transgender" is not for me. I don't want to blur the lines between me and those whose situation is totally different from mine. I want the distinction to be clear and definite.

Quote from: Hypatia on September 01, 2007, 02:18:35 PM
I'm not gender bending. I'm a woman and I feel no identification with androgynous or genderqueer--I'm just a woman. Knowing that Virginia Price coined the term "transgender" as a transsexual-phobic word has seriously tainted it for me.

Do you have a source for this, and like what was actually said?  Not that it matters, because it would hardly be the LGBT term that started out derogatory and got adopted as something positive.

So since you abhor being a part of the transgender movement, how do you feel about abandoning the political causes of it?  Like there is a political dimension that I think you're leaving out as well.

And do you feel that your identification leads you to be bigoted towards non-transsexuals, since you so badly don't want to be identified with them in a society that would?  I feel like mentally that sets up a separation, that must be awful to try and overcome.

I've preferred the term transgender to transsexual because of less emphasis on sex and more on gender, also it sounds too clinical, I don't like identifying as a word that the medical community coined. For similar reasons I dislike the word homosexual as opposed to gay. I don't know of many people these days who use the term transgenderist, basically I'd consider non-op, non-hrt ts to be same.

Knowing the background of Virginia Prince's transphobia and the origin of the word inspires me to want to use a different term for transgender.... but not sure what. I sometimes use gender variant, but don't like that because it implies that something else is the norm... I don't like gender-challenged for the same reason. Maybe gender-blessed 

zythyra

Quote from: Hypatia on September 01, 2007, 02:18:35 PM
I don't want to blur the lines between me and those whose situation is totally different from mine. I want the distinction to be clear and definite.

The catch is, when using any term to describe yourself, you just never know what it's going to mean to someone else.

I went back-and-forth with both terms when first coming out to people, but I eventually found it much easier to skip labels and explanations and just focus on exactly what I was doing. I never tell anyone "I'm a transsexual" anymore, I just say "I'm changing my sex and going by the name Kate now."

I realize we do need labels for diagnosis and study and all, but in practical life when actually dealing with people it just seems to confuse things and leave things open for interpretation.

~Kate~

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on September 01, 2007, 02:36:12 PM

Quote from: Hypatia on September 01, 2007, 02:18:35 PM
I'm not gender bending. I'm a woman and I feel no identification with androgynous or genderqueer--I'm just a woman. Knowing that Virginia Price coined the term "transgender" as a transsexual-phobic word has seriously tainted it for me.

Do you have a source for this, and like what was actually said?

Well, for example there's this--

QuoteVirginia Prince, a dedicated cross-dresser, was apparently not too jazzed about transsexuals, and openly referred to us as "losers."

QuoteNot that it matters, because it would hardly be the LGBT term that started out derogatory and got adopted as something positive.

It didn't originate as a derogatory term for the people it applied to-- it's just that it does not apply to me.

QuoteSo since you abhor being a part of the transgender movement, how do you feel about abandoning the political causes of it?  Like there is a political dimension that I think you're leaving out as well.

Excuse me. Where did you get this from? That's an unwarranted and unfair assumption. I'm now more of an LGBT equal rights activist than ever. I don't know what you're referring to, but just because I don't identify as a drag queen or a CD, that doesn't mean I abhor equal rights.

QuoteAnd do you feel that your identification leads you to be bigoted towards non-transsexuals, since you so badly don't want to be identified with them in a society that would?  I feel like mentally that sets up a separation, that must be awful to try and overcome.

Again, where are you getting this from? This assumption is completely out of line. I'm an activist for gay men's rights too, even though it's clear that I'm not one. I don't have to identify the same as each and every group whose rights I support. I engage in LGBT activism because it's the right thing to do. I'll thank you not to project prejudice onto me.

Maybe Kate is right and labels are more trouble than they're worth. I just can't believe how wrongly my honest exploration of self has been misinterpreted here. Another problem with the word "transgender" is that no one seems sure just what it means.

QuoteWell, for example there's this--
Quote
Virginia Prince, a dedicated cross-dresser, was apparently not too jazzed about transsexuals, and openly referred to us as "losers."

Hypatia,

Thanks for posting that link. Wow, Max Valerio's reasoning for reclamation of the word transsexual is powerful!

Zythyra (gender-blessed) 

Regardless what labels come and go, I'll always be out and proud QUEER. (I'm a woman who likes women, after all, how could I not go with LGBT?)

Labels are just words that we give too much power of control over.  I think the idea of labels must have been invented in some sort of marketing lab.  We allow ourselves to be bound to labels, and those labels build hiearchies, whether we want them to or not, and they fester in the subconsciousness of the culture contributing to a greater and greater sense of alienation.

And I apologize that I came off as prejudicing you hypatia.  I was more responding to your negative reactions to the word transgender.  I mean you want to completely get rid of it.  And I was just interested in exploring the ramifications of doing that.  Like all parts of LGBT--al of those words encompass a spectrum of people.  But what LGBT is really about, and you certainly must understand this, is unity against a common foe, and pushing for the equal treatment of all people.  If you get rid of Transgender as an umbrella term, then suddenly you have a very splintered community, and because of our relatively small numbers, I would worry about our voices not being heard.  As an activist how do you reconcile those worries?

Oh and what differences do you see between not using the umbrella term transgender, but using the umbrella term of queer?

Posted on: September 02, 2007, 02:06:26 AM

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Oooo that was a nice article.  What I like about his position of wanting to use the term transsexual is as a revolutionary badge.  My fear with schisming off transsexuals from the broader transgender movement has always been grounded in the feeling that it was being done just because of shame for types of expression that some transsexuals didn't like.  For me I view transgender the way he views transsexual.  In that I feel like transgender is the more "forget you" revolutionary badge.  Because it's saying like "go away", these are my people too".  Whereas transsexual thrown off on it's own feels very white tower conservative.  Like "oh I have a medical condition, so I'm really not like "them"".

But it's good to see even from Valerio's position that he sees that we can't just retire the term transgender.  It's the flag from where all the heavy lifting has to be done because it's the one that can accomplish the most good for the most people.

I marched in the Pride parade with all the drag queens--there were tons of them alongside just a few transsexuals--so don't you dare insinuate I'm trying to abandon other types of transgender people or am ashamed to stand with them for equal rights.

I just have to be clear about my specific needs as a trans woman, which I've noticed tend to get obscured when I'm lumped in with those who have different needs.

I identify as queer not because I'm trans, but because I'm a woman who likes women. I can't settle on if I'm more lesbian or more bi or what-- so the only way to describe it is "I'm just queer." My boundaries on sexuality are all blurred and indistinct, while my boundaries on gender identity are very sharply delineated. I'm not a man who pretends to be a woman-- I'm a woman.

I'm tired of having "third gender" or "two spirit" identity imposed on me by those who don't want to fully accept that I'm a woman. I don't welcome any assumptions that blur my gender boundary. I'm not interested in being part man. I'm just a woman. I feel like for years the politically correct line in transgender activism was to blur the distinction--that it's more radical or edgy to refuse to identify as a discrete gender, while those of us who feel we belong in one side or another of the binary are put down for reinforcing gender stereotypes. That the only way to liberate transgender is to destroy gender altogether, so that in some idealized future there will be no more men and no more women.

But that does nothing for me, it only gets in the way of realizing my goal of transition. And lately I've noticed some others who identify as a single gender, like Julia Serano, beginning to assert that we have a right to our identities too. That's where I'm coming from.

I like she-male. I'm a she that happens to be male.

Plus, some of the most gorgeous ts are she-males. Always there to provide aspiration.

Quote from: Hypatia on September 03, 2007, 06:38:34 PM
I marched in the Pride parade with all the drag queens--there were tons of them alongside just a few transsexuals--so don't you dare insinuate I'm trying to abandon other types of transgender people or am ashamed to stand with them for equal rights.

I just have to be clear about my specific needs as a trans woman, which I've noticed tend to get obscured when I'm lumped in with those who have different needs.

I identify as queer not because I'm trans, but because I'm a woman who likes women. I can't settle on if I'm more lesbian or more bi or what-- so the only way to describe it is "I'm just queer." My boundaries on sexuality are all blurred and indistinct, while my boundaries on gender identity are very sharply delineated. I'm not a man who pretends to be a woman-- I'm a woman.

I'm tired of having "third gender" or "two spirit" identity imposed on me by those who don't want to fully accept that I'm a woman. I don't welcome any assumptions that blur my gender boundary. I'm not interested in being part man. I'm just a woman. I feel like for years the politically correct line in transgender activism was to blur the distinction--that it's more radical or edgy to refuse to identify as a discrete gender, while those of us who feel we belong in one side or another of the binary are put down for reinforcing gender stereotypes. That the only way to liberate transgender is to destroy gender altogether, so that in some idealized future there will be no more men and no more women.

But that does nothing for me, it only gets in the way of realizing my goal of transition. And lately I've noticed some others who identify as a single gender, like Julia Serano, beginning to assert that we have a right to our identities too. That's where I'm coming from.

Isn't Valerio's case for using the word transsexual though to do with his desire to be viewed as not a transgender but as a transsexual.  Like he wants the surgeries he had recognized and in people's faces, so he won't be assimilated into mainstream culture?  I don't really understand your position fully within that context.  Because you don't seem to want your surgeries and body of work in people's faces.    Or maybe you do?  I don't really understand.

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on September 02, 2007, 02:23:55 AM
Labels are just words that we give too much power of control over.  I think the idea of labels must have been invented in some sort of marketing lab.  We allow ourselves to be bound to labels, and those labels build hiearchies, whether we want them to or not, and they fester in the subconsciousness of the culture contributing to a greater and greater sense of alienation.

I agree wholeheartedly Sarah, I think some people give these labels too much power and it becomes a very 'in your face' attitude! 

Quote from: Candi Nahasapeemapetilon on September 03, 2007, 06:47:21 PM
I like she-male. I'm a she that happens to be male.

Plus, some of the most gorgeous ts are she-males. Always there to provide aspiration.

I respect that you would like to be known as a she-male unless this is a tongue and cheek comment.    But doesn't it bother you that this term is used I thought, exclusively to the porn industry?  I'm not dissing them either, people have got to do what they've got to do to survive in this world and I'm certainly not preaching here.   

cheers,

buttercup 

hey buttercup...

i'm always the insolent one.

i have no problems with she-male. I have a huge collection of porn, mostly of gorgeous women whom i wanted to be. funny, i downloaded them over years, but never look at them again. they collect digital dust...

so for me, porn is no biggie. likewise she-male.

also being on the receiving end of slurs such as rice-ball, slope, gook, chink, ching-chong-cho (always in male mode i get them), makes me a whole lot more tolerant of labels.

Hmmm.....I see we're coming to "terms" again with the gender spectrum.  Personally, I refer to myself as transsexual to folks in general, if asked, and specifically as a lesbian transwoman, out and proud.  I own up to being lesbian, woman, and trans.

As far as all other individuals in the queer community, I cannot, and will not reject any, and will not think ill of any.  I will stand up for them all.  I have personally been through enough hatred, that I will stand hand in hand in a line of people that all have different terms they use to describe who they are in the spectrum of gender and orientation.

I've experienced enough verbal and emotional abuse to see the whole pitiful picture, and know that it has little to do with knee-jerk responses to terms used to describe our differences, but EVERYTHING to do with ignorance and hatred.

Rather then spend time picking at the differences between terms with other gender and orientation variant people, I would rather spend it doing my part to change the opinions to some degree, at least, of those ignorant, bigotted people that would make our lives hell on earth.

Bev

I pretty much refer to myself as a transwoman or transgrrl (which seems to be pretty often).  I get refered to as transgender by my friends, it seems to be the term more popular with young people as supposed to transsexual.  Most people under 30 use to describe somebody who is transitioning and transsexual as transgender, at least the people in my circle of friends. 

I am pretty oblivious. If somebody wants to refer to me as transgender thats fine with me.   Same with trans or transsexual.  I would prefer female or woman, and that is happening more often.

Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on September 03, 2007, 07:02:25 PM
Isn't Valerio's case for using the word transsexual though to do with his desire to be viewed as not a transgender but as a transsexual.  Like he wants the surgeries he had recognized and in people's faces, so he won't be assimilated into mainstream culture?  I don't really understand your position fully within that context.  Because you don't seem to want your surgeries and body of work in people's faces.    Or maybe you do?  I don't really understand.

I'm sorry, Sarah, I find it really hard to have dialogue with you because you keep reading into it things I never said, never intended. Please cut it out. Not everything in my life has to be politicized.

If I wanted my SRS in people's faces, I'd become a stripper. 

Posted on: September 04, 2007, 09:03:26 AM

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Quote from: regina on September 03, 2007, 08:04:46 PMAs a transwoman who's going for SRS in the near future, I don't have an issue with non-op transwomen, although I admit I don't always understand their reasoning, but so long as they truly experience themselves as women, the connection is fine. But it gets smudgier when referring to CDers and dragfolks. Then you're not really talking about people who have the same core issue of gender mismatch and a real identity with their target genders.

Thank you, Regina. That is exactly what I was trying to say. It's about the GID. Different needs, different interests, different focus on equal rights. To say I'm different from others isn't to put them down, it's just being real about who I am so that my own needs aren't obscured.

I'm like you, the word I use for myself is "woman" -- if anyone (like Deep Purple fans) inquires why I'm such a "Strange Kind of Woman," my one-word answer to explain how I got to be the woman I am is "transsexual."

Woman is a noun. It says who I am. Transsexual is not a noun, it's an adjective. It describes the sort of woman I am.

Posted on: September 04, 2007, 09:09:36 AM

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Quote from: regina on September 03, 2007, 08:04:46 PMI know I've been on other forums where there were huge fights about genderqueers and more fluid, non-op people who called themselves 'transsexuals'. Even huge fights about the 'right' of non-ops to use 'transsexual' instead of 'transgender.' I hope that doesn't happen here and, as far as I'm concerned, if someone wants those terms, they're welcome to them.

Yeah, I am so not interested in that argument. Way I see it, GID is GID.