So I'm looking at press about WorldPride (in Toronto, summer 2014) and this thing crops up:

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/63847

I really don't get this at all. That little country is not guilty of apartheid. In addition to that, it's the only place in the middle east where they can walk around free, not fearing for their lives. Don't they have something more fitting to protest?

What, you mean like protesting gay executions in every single middle east nation that surrounds them by thousands of miles? Get out of here, that's just crazy talk.

Ooops! Silly me! What was I thinking?

Tell that to the Palestians in the West Bank that have to traverse a clockwork of walls and checkpoints just to go three miles, a place where the IDF punishes people by spewing homes with septic waste. It's not about bigotry or anti-Semtism, it's about giving people a chance just to be people without the boot of the IDF on their throats. This has nothing to do with "the entire Middle East" or what other countries do. Let's look at the 2009 conflict. How many Israeli civilians died? Um, four? There were what nine soldiers too. Something like that. How many Palestinian children? I think the answer is 252 with a total of 1,400 war dead, half of them being civilians. So that's 1,100 (Ill leave out Hamas members) dead to Israel's four dead. Yup, nothing to see here. Perfectly acceptable.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 17, 2014, 09:35:05 PM
Tell that to the Palestians in the West Bank that have to traverse a clockwork of walls and checkpoints just to go three miles, a place where the IDF punishes people by spewing homes with septic waste. It's not about bigotry or anti-Semtism, it's about giving people a chance just to be people without the boot of the IDF on their throats. This has nothing to do with "the entire Middle East" or what other countries do. Let's look at the 2009 conflict. How many Israeli civilians died? Um, four? There were what nine soldiers too. Something like that. How many Palestinian children? I think the answer is 252 with a total of 1,400 war dead, half of them being civilians. So that's 1,100 (Ill leave out Hamas members) dead to Israel's four dead. Yup, nothing to see here. Perfectly acceptable.

Gee, you think electing Hamas as their leadership and subsequently launching rockets all over had anything at all do to with that?

http://rt.com/op-edge/palestine-human-rights-dugard-un-328/

Quote from: Olivia P on June 17, 2014, 11:45:07 PM
http://rt.com/op-edge/palestine-human-rights-dugard-un-328/

You can't stop progress.

Palestinians lost a lot of that land when they got together with the other Arab nations and attacked Israel. They started a war and Israel spanked them hard in about a week. Bad stuff happens when you attack another nation. Without the Israelis, the place would just be another middle east crap hole and the Palestinians would care less. Also, Jordan has about half of what the Palestinians claim is theirs but no one mentions that.

Here's another opinion.

Quote from: EllieM on June 18, 2014, 10:26:43 AM

Here's another opinion.

Brilliant synopsis!

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=45707&

Regardless of anything, their still regularly enforcing forced evictions making people homeless and building on land where other people used to live.

As for the whole hamas terrorist thing:

ter·ror·ist [ térrərist ]
1. somebody using violence for political purposes: somebody who uses violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, to intimidate others, often for political purposes

All goverments do this, so whats the difference?  There is no moral high ground here, everyone is engaged in violence to enforce their agenda.

What does matter however, are the innocent civilians caught up in the middle of it all, and with the endless forced evictions, there is a lot of suffering present in that region.

Quote from: Olivia P on June 18, 2014, 11:51:11 PM
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=45707&

Regardless of anything, their still regularly enforcing forced evictions making people homeless and building on land where other people used to live.

As for the whole hamas terrorist thing:

ter·ror·ist [ térrərist ]
1. somebody using violence for political purposes: somebody who uses violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, to intimidate others, often for political purposes

All goverments do this, so whats the difference?  There is no moral high ground here, everyone is engaged in violence to enforce their agenda.

What does matter however, are the innocent civilians caught up in the middle of it all, and with the endless forced evictions, there is a lot of suffering present in that region.

Well then, don't complain. "Ours is a world governed by the aggressive use of force." But trying to equate a civilized, stabilized, democratic government with a terrorist is typical, cliched, and just plain intellectually lazy. Nobody in the entire world has done more to accommodate the Palestinians than Israel. They are thanked with rockets.

And I'm sorry, I didn't find anything that the UN had to say about the captured Israeli teenagers. I'm sure you will hope they are returned home safely. In the meantime, let's celebrate their capture with a  3 finger salute and cookies! Look, it's for the children.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/06/18/palestinian-social-media-campaign-celebrating-kidnapping-goes-viral/
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/arabs-celebrating-kidnapping-of-jewish-boys/2014/06/14/
http://www.israellycool.com/2014/06/17/more-palestinian-reactions-to-kidnapping-the-most-disturbing-of-all/

Quote from: H.H. The XIV Dalai LamaThrough violence, you may 'solve' one problem, but you sow the seeds for another.

Quote from: BuddhaHatred will not cease by hatred, but by love alone. This is the ancient law.

Quote from: BuddhaPeace comes from within. Do not seek it without.

Quote from: BuddhaAll fear violence, all are afraid of death.
Seeing the similarity to oneself, one should not use violence or have it used.

Quote from: Thích Nhất HạnhWe are often exposed,if not first hand, then through films, reading material, and conversations, to violence, fear, hatred, meaningless infatuations.Society is full of violence and hatred, which accumulates in the collective consciousness. If in our daily lives we do not know now to abstain from damaging materials and attitudes, the seeds of violence, hatred and suffering in us will continue to be watered. We need to be aware of what we hear,see, and read every day... Do our associations and consumptions poison us?

________________________________

QuoteBut trying to equate a civilized, stabilized, democratic government with a terrorist is typical, cliched, and just plain intellectually lazy.

Side note, how this this, something that happens regularly, civilized in any way at all?

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/12/world/meast/yemen-u-s-drone-wedding/
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/08/11/more-than-160-children-killed-in-us-strikes/

QuoteThe Bureau has identified credible reports of 168 children killed in seven years of CIA drone strikes in Pakistan's tribal areas. These children would account for 44% of the minimum figure of 385 civilians reported killed by the attacks.

A bunch of vapid quotes which have done nothing to prevent, stop or solve anything. Go talk to the 11,000,000 Jews who walked peacefully into gas chambers. Your boy Hạnh sat in France while the Khmer Rouge slaughtered somewhere around 2,000,000 in Vietnam. Nobody knows the exact number, only 20,000 mass graves have been identified.

Quote from: Olivia P on June 19, 2014, 12:16:04 AM
________________________________

Side note, how this this, something that happens regularly, civilized in any way at all?

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/12/world/meast/yemen-u-s-drone-wedding/
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/08/11/more-than-160-children-killed-in-us-strikes/

160 kids isn't even a bad year in Chicago Metro.

Quote from: TiffanyT on June 19, 2014, 12:34:23 AM
A bunch of vapid quotes which have done nothing to prevent, stop or solve anything. Go talk to the 11,000,000 Jews who walked peacefully into gas chambers. Your boy Hạnh sat in France while the Khmer Rouge slaughtered somewhere around 2,000,000 in Vietnam. Nobody knows the exact number, only 20,000 mass graves have been identified.

You think Buddhist monks are powerless?

Warning Graphic imagery...



http://www.annalsofamericus.com/wp-content/uploads/malcolm-browne_buddhist-monk_colorized.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c

QuoteThe act occurred at the intersection of Phan Đình Phùng Boulevard (now Nguyễn Đình Chiểu Street) and Lê Văn Duyệt Street (now Cách Mạng Tháng Tám Street) a few blocks Southwest of the Presidential Palace (now the Reunification Palace). Duc emerged from the car along with two other monks. One placed a cushion on the road while the second opened the trunk and took out a five-gallon gasoline can. As the marchers formed a circle around him, Duc calmly sat down in the traditional Buddhist meditative lotus position on the cushion. A colleague emptied the contents of the gasoline container over Đức's head. Đức rotated a string of wooden prayer beads and recited the words Nam mô A di đà Phật ("homage to Amitābha Buddha") before striking a match and dropping it on himself. Flames consumed his robes and flesh, and black oily smoke emanated from his burning body.[25][26]

Quang Duc's last words before his self-immolation were documented in a letter he had left:

Before closing my eyes and moving towards the vision of the Buddha, I respectfully plead to President Ngo Dinh Diem to take a mind of compassion towards the people of the nation and implement religious equality to maintain the strength of the homeland eternally. I call the venerables, reverends, members of the sangha and the lay Buddhists to organise in solidarity to make sacrifices to protect Buddhism

QuoteU.S. President John F. Kennedy said that "no news picture in history has generated so much emotion around the world as that one"

Quote"Before the Vietnamese monk Thich Quang Duc burned himself alive in 1963, he meditated for several weeks and then wrote very loving letters to his government, his church, and his fellow monks and nuns explaining why he had reached that decision.  When you are motivated by love and the willingness to help others attain understanding, even self-immolation can be a compassionate act.  When Jesus allowed Himself to be crucified, He was acting in the same way, motivated by the desire to wake people up, to restore understanding and compassion, and to save people.

When  you are caught in a war in which the great powers have huge weapons and complete control of the mass media, you have to do something extraordinary to make yourself heard.  Without access to radio, television, or the press, you have to create new ways to help the world understand the situation you are in.  Self-immolation can be such a means.  If you do it out of love, you act very much as Jesus did on the cross and as Gandhi did in India.  Gandhi fasted, not with anger, but with compassion, not only toward his countrymen but also toward the British.  These great men all knew that it is the truth that sets us free, and they did everything they could to make the truth known.

  Ok everyone, remember this is a support site and personal attacks are against TOS. Calm down a little and this topic will stay open. Personal attacks will result in it being locked. 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 19, 2014, 12:46:11 AM
Ok everyone, remember this is a support site and personal attacks are against TOS. Calm down a little and this topic will stay open. Personal attacks will result in it being locked. 

We are only attacking a failed terrorist quazi state and small children here....   

Just a preemptive reminder for this delicate topic. Nothing more sinister I promise. This can easily go nuclear with emotions.

Quote from: Olivia P on June 19, 2014, 12:43:49 AM
You think Buddhist monks are powerless?

Warning Graphic imagery...



http://www.annalsofamericus.com/wp-content/uploads/malcolm-browne_buddhist-monk_colorized.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c

Yes and Saigon fell 12 years later after 2,000,000+ died in the war and communist Vietnam closed itself to the world for another quarter century. JFK wasn't available for comment.