I'm sorry I am flooding the forum with new threads.  But it is my desire to offer possible thought provoking ideas.

One of the terms we use a lot is "authenticity".  Being authentic.  But what does that mean to you?

For me it means rigorous honesty with myself, knowing the truth of who I am all the time, and being that truth regardless of whatever presentation may be necessary or appropriate or real at the moment.

I would prefer being openly "out" but reality is that just doesn't work for me, the collateral damage is too great to family and possibly to carreer, but not so much that.  And it is only a family issue because they cannot handle the visual death of their father or mate.  They are just learning now who Satinjoy is.

Authentic to me means being true to your core values.  True to yourself and family, hiding nothing, but respecting their needs. 

But raw authenticity is simply being the gender your mind is in at the moment.  Not hiding who you are at core.

I don't know, I think I am not making much sense, but i think authenticity is the most import concept we have as trans, being true to ourselves, not self decieved, not being an act, but being real in the moment.

Thoughts?

SJ

Great question.   This is a quick response.  I need to think some more.

To me authenticity connotes a whole range of attributes eg being genuine; honest; ego free; open; transparent; self realised; grounded, present or being consistent with your core values, inner truth or guiding principles.

It therefore implies that dishonesty; selfishness; ego driven etc is the polar opposite and enemy of authenticity.

For me authentic expression is not a constant and is in many ways a moveable feast;  the expression of authenticity changes as I change and as I grow; in many ways it is moving to the dance of spirit and soul - bathed in the music and presence of other spirits and their love.  I suspect that, distraction from or the pursuit of, personal agenda denies authenticity.  I also suspect that lack of insight from lack of inquiry and self understanding also prevents authenticity.

Aisla

Well that was very pretty prose for a "quick response" and I can only applaud.

Authenticity, for me, has to do with the dominant paradigms and boxes we inhabit.  Being mindful of my life long effort to appear male while feeling female I have an aversion to jumping neatly into the other box that says "female."   Having grown up with mass media's stereotypes I want to feel a genuine sense of self and embrace change as the constant.
I do not know the end of this story. 

Quote from: Tessa James on June 24, 2014, 01:25:51 AM
Being mindful of my life long effort to appear male while feeling female I have an aversion to jumping neatly into the other box that says "female."   Having grown up with ...  stereotypes I want to feel a genuine sense of self and embrace change as the constant.
I do not know the end of this story.

TessaJames

Thank you for the applause but your comments are more resonant, closer to the mark and much closer to my sense of the truth in authenticity.   Being mindful, seeking to find and to embrace a genuine sense of self; and embracing growth and change while consciously choosing one's journey and narrative is closer to what I would have liked to have said.


Aisla

Thank you Aisla,

One area of authentic concern for tg/ts people is our literal voice.  While I have availed myself of speech therapy there is a part of me of wanting to retain some of my actual voice and not affect a mickey mouse substitute.  It is also the reason I keep my legal name as Tessa James, acknowledging my past identity with my old first name now my middle.  The personal narrative part I addressed by telling my early story in the daily newspaper here.

Trans people are too often accused of deception and my remedy is to be out and honest to a fault, perhaps

Saying I don't know, when I don't know.
Its means admitting my failings.
Does being authentic mean being openly out, to me yes. But that is because I can. For another it means not being so because they in their situation cant. it is being out when you don't want to that is not authentic.

I think that in a lot of ways it is impossible for a person not to be authentic. even if say being a liar is their authenticity. because liars lie? authenticity is being you, for yourself, and not you for someone ells. unless of course you are yourself for someone ells for yourself. Being authentic is about what matters most to us as people. you might want one thing, but want something ells more. and we sometimes forgo some things we want to have others we want more. We have reasoning and this is what makes us authentic to ourselves.

Because what ever we do we do it for reasons. and this is who we are.

Now my authenticity in the eyes of others (is a different question and that) would be being honest with them, not lying painting a picture that is me. expressing myself, my likes my dislikes, saying I don't like something even if I eat it . because eating something usually says you like it.

So authenticity? for me it being me for someone ells? that depends on whether they believe me or not. Because the truth is a lie to those that don't believe it.

EDIT --- after thought, is authenticating not a seal of approval? so authenticity to another is them agreeing with me . And in that sense it means having my own approval in my actions. Not doing something I don't want to not being ashamed of myself

TessaJames

I admire and applaud your honesty and transparency.  Your comment re literal voice is quite thought provoking. The literal voice is a major challenge and seems to fundamentally shift for most folk who undergo a fundamental or binary shift in presentation.  For the MTF it can be a 'give away' but for a GQ or MTA it does not need to shift in a significant manner.  It would be nice for a MTF or MTA to be able to change gears and their literal expression but seems to require a high order and not easily attained skill. 

Your desire to keep some of your actual voice could be realised through maintaining your usual intonation and syncopation but I suspect that any change in pitch may drown out or over power these elements.  Would you feel the same way if your voice felt less mickey mouse and more cis as appears to be possible via Yeson surgery?

This desire to retain and to express part of your original identity is interesting, as it is this need which keeps be trending towards an Andro or GQ presentation in sympathy with my non binary identity.  Do you think that your desire for a non binary voice or Q voice is consistent with your stated F identity or doesn't it really matter, as who needs or really needs to fit,wholly within a pink or a blue box?

Aisla

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on June 24, 2014, 02:13:25 AM
Saying I don't know, when I don't know.
Its means admitting my failings.

I think that in a lot of ways it is impossible for a person not to be authentic. even if say being a liar is their authenticity. because liars lie? authenticity is being you, for yourself, and not you for someone ells. unless of course you are yourself for someone ells for yourself. Being authentic is about what matters most to us as people. you might want one thing, but want something ells more. and we sometimes forgo some things we want to have others we want more. We have reasoning and this is what makes us authentic to ourselves.

Because what ever we do we do it for reasons. and this is who we are.

Now my authenticity in the eyes of others (is a different question and that) would be being honest with them

EDIT --- after thought, is authenticating not a seal of approval? so authenticity to another is them agreeing with me . And in that sense it means having my own approval in my actions. Not doing something I don't want to not being ashamed of myself

ButterflyVickster

I wish that I had studied logic or philosophy as I don't know if what I am going to say, makes sense or is logically flawed. 

I agree with you that being honest with yourself and with others is being authentic. Not doing something that I don't want to do also suggests authenticity.  But I do wonder if seeking or receiving approval is closer to seeking or receiving validation, which seems to be speaking to satisfying or feeding the ego, rather than necessarily reflecting  your truth.   Similarly while there will always be a reason as to why we do something, the reason  could be that we have simply chosen to bully, hurt or to harm others, in which case I don't see this as living your life or expressing yourself honestly or in line with your core values or higher purpose (unless of course you are just plain nasty). 

So perhaps my departure point from your definition is my sense, that authenticity has a sense of higher purpose, truth, selflessness and a lack of a personal or selfish agenda.

Just a thought,  need to keep thinking ...

Aisla

Quote from: Aisla on June 24, 2014, 02:35:48 AM
ButterflyVickster

I wish that I had studied logic or philosophy as I don't know if what I am going to say, makes sense or is logically flawed. 

I agree with you that being honest with yourself and with others is being authentic. Not doing something that I don't want to do also suggests authenticity.  But I do wonder if seeking or receiving approval is closer to seeking or receiving validation, which seems to be speaking to satisfying or feeding the ego, rather than necessarily reflecting  your truth.   Similarly while there will always be a reason as to why we do something, the reason  could be that we have simply chosen to bully, hurt or to harm others, in which case I don't see this as living your life or expressing yourself honestly or in line with your core values or higher purpose (unless of course you are just plain nasty). 

So perhaps my departure point from your definition is my sense is that authenticity has a sense of higher purpose, truth, selflessness and a lack of a personal or selfish agenda.

Just a thought,  need to keep thinking ...

Aisla

Maybe I don't know what authenticity means. I had assumed they In many cases mean the same? authentication is a seal of approval? a validation? if something is invalid it is wrong? untrue? maybe the problem is language?, translation?  I have learned that two word sounding the same can mean different things. maybe authentication has nothing to do with authenticity, apart from "authent" but icity and ication can drastically change there meaning.

I have no idea. but this derivative was a questioning afterthought. meaning my words after were an "if" not an is maybe I do have an ego. I am struggling with "pride" and "vanity" at the moment. and those are the ego's . Maybe I need to learn my own language. Or discover another less confusing one. sighs. I think Ill step out of this convo. Until I know what authenticity means. (Maybe I should just quote the dictionary, but wait...... if it was this meaning sought the question wouldn't not of been asked) what does it mean for ME?? honesty, truth, transparency, openness, (and ironically) knowledge.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on June 24, 2014, 03:09:42 AM
what does it mean for ME?? honesty, truth, transparency, openness, (and ironically) knowledge.

BV

Sorry I do get a little intense.  I love these types of discussion and sharing ideas.  No one is right or wrong.  All questions are good questions.  In fact I think that we are converging on the same definition, or sense, of authenticity.

Aisla

Great questions Aisla and while not wanting to derail this thread it seems that an element of this conversation gets to the concept of passing.  Is it more important to pass than feel real?  I went into transition feeling it was not vital for me to pass and very important to feel real.  I can appreciate a husky, sexy voiced woman and have no interest in surgery on my vocal chords.  You answered your own question nicely and yes it is true that I feel and desire greater femininity (a stereotype) in presentation but consistently feel the need to be my real self.  Since my reality includes a six decade long shadow it is a fun challenge to flesh out and occupy the darkness I once knew.  How and why do we know what feels "right"?   Like appreciating art I may not her able to articulate why but I feel some images speak out loud.

Quote from: Tessa James on June 24, 2014, 03:24:49 AM
Great questions Aisla and while not wanting to derail this thread it seems that an element of this conversation gets to the concept of passing.  Is it more important to pass than feel real?  I went into transition feeling it was not vital for me to pass and very important to feel real.  I can appreciate a husky, sexy voiced woman and have no interest in surgery on my vocal chords.  You answered your own question nicely and yes it is true that I feel and desire greater femininity (a stereotype) in presentation but consistently feel the need to be my real self.  Since my reality includes a six decade long shadow it is a fun challenge to flesh out and occupy the darkness I once knew.  How and why do we know what feels "right"?   Like appreciating art I may not her able to articulate why but I feel some images speak out loud.

TessaJames

Sorry SJ (as the OP), but I can't resist a brief side exploration. 

I sense that TJ and I are in a similar place.  My first inclination was to transition to F, and even when my non binary identity emerged and asserted itself, I initially continued to lean in this direction.  At the time I could see the much greater flexibility in expression or presentation afforded to me if I chose the F box but .... there were costs - relationship, family, career etc .... and I had a growing sense that my truth as a non binary would actually be compromised by a binary transition or change in presentation as an MTF.   

In addition I felt the need to see if I could gain greater amplitude in my expression, emotional bandwidth etc without a binary transition.  ... and also felt that leaving my shadow behind rather than integrating and illuminating it in my new self would be damaging to my soul and to my psyche. 

So long story longer - I am transitioning MTA and determined to see whether I can find authenticity through more nuanced and richer experience with out a binary transition.  Suspect it will be a challenge, as males, and in particular TG folk born male are more rigid, strait jacketed and constrained than most.

Need to think more on this but this is fascinating stuff.  I suspect that there are a number of potential threads embedded in our discussion.

Aisla

This is exactly what I had hoped would happen in this discussion.  Don't stop. 

I have a choice to make concerning staying GQ or going A or even TS stealth.  Authenticity now becomes about not fooling myself, and having my eyes wide open to the choices i make, the cost to my personal needs and expression, and living up to my ethical and spiritual standards, where my self worth is drawn from.  As well as my role as father and husband.

Let the posts fly my precious dears, come out and play

Working sincerely and honestly and feeling right while transitioning defines my journey of change.   I called myself genderqueer for some time.  I lived a good deal of my life as an androgynous sort of person with very long hair and being out as queer and bi while some people likely thought I was gay.  Stealth has no attraction for me even if I could pass 100% of the time--not likely in this lifetime   I respect others going stealth but I would not want to be back in that situation of having a secret with a past and would worry again about being outed.  I am very happy to be transgender and consider myself very fortunate to have these unique and delicious connections to a non binary gender identity.  No secrets, no shame and what a relief to give up on trying to act like a man.  Free thinking and free feeling.  We know all too well about the chains of self loathing, expectations and consequences that can hold us back.  Chain gangs are a prison motif.

Stretching the metaphor, are we shackled by responsibilities?  My spouse and most of my family accept me and, for the last year my wife has introduced me as her wife.  Does that mean I am a better housekeeper, cook or parent?  IDK but the better alignment of my identity and presentation feels sublime. 

How do we define ourselves and what are the obvious and unconscious forces that shape our world?  Is our self image and behavior consistent?  All part of working toward authenticity for this girl.

Our self image is changing continually, as we go from people who have not tried to those that have, those who know not and those that do. With everything we learn, we learn more about our self. We might see our self as being unable to do something in a situation, and discover we can when in that situation. Or think we would and discover we cant.

We are alive, and as such we grow, we learn, we change. There are things about us that do not change, and denial of these things is not authentic, authenticity demands us to be open and honest about these things. And this is what happens when we say I cant do that because, or I can and this is why.

I suppose authenticity is broadcasting the why behind the what?

Well I figured out that for me right now, authentic will be to remain GQ in presentation.  Nothing changes except the nice gift I am going to get about a more fulfilling full transition beardless presentation, when I am in that center or core, when in the times that I nurture the female component in me and cradle her in my loving arms.  A far better emotional state than I was for many years.

But out, in business, everything falls into place, I keep the nails, I stay male attire outside only, and if anyone asks, then I am physically an androgyne, blended anatomy.  Only the cruel would I block from this, and I am getting to the place of not caring about them either.  Had enough of bullying.

As to our constraints and responsibilities, being shackled to them, motives are big with me there, sensitivity to needs.  I bound myself to my wife in wedlock, that is final.  I had a dream last night of two blue angel planes taking off side by side, flying high and wing tip to wing tip.  That dream is a metaphor of what my marriage is and I would fight to the death for it.  That is authentic.

But the GQ presentation is really who I am out in the world, my comfort level, my reality, my neutral and fluid and mtf states simultaniously in one body.  So that is genuine, comfortable and real.

The beard shield will be gone.  That will be a new place for me, out of my comfort zone but with great dysphoric relief rewards.  Is that genuine?  Hard to say.  It was a tool.  It was a mask, a costume.  It once was a way to prevent me from going out "in drag" decades ago, during the purge years when I had no clue.  There are no needs anymore for such a thing, where fear is the motivation behind all.  There is a new motivation now, courage, honesty, and it would not be here had I not read the many posts from the rest of us here.  I cannot and will not do this on my own, not without you, you have all become family to me and my essential support.

Blessings and Love to all here.  I want very badly to be authentic.  Transparent, like the bra I wear lol.  Absolutely real.

I hope Ativan comes in on this thread, sh'e probably has some amazing insights on authenticity we would all gain from.

OK that's it, I'm giving up going to conferences, visiting friends, until I write some software that will automatically alert me to what you guys are doing.  My favorite authors have a conversation and me not butting in seems so unfair!

Rant done.

I am  woman. I identify as such, and do what I can to look and fill the roles that womanhood implies in my somewhat jaundiced view of the world.  Even so I know that there are pieces of my personality that appreciates my residual masculinity, and I have endless admiration for Satinjoy and Aisla who seem to be able to weave a blended life into successful living. 

From ButterflyVickster "We are alive, and as such we grow, we learn, we change. There are things about us that do not change, and denial of these things is not authentic, authenticity demands us to be open and honest about these things."  And yes I agree that authenticity demands candor about the core, but that portion of me that is static seems to be shrinking and that which is fungible expanding.

My attitudes and beliefs about what is masculine, and what is feminine as always been tempered by what needs to be done now, but I seem to be shedding the need to define most things in that dichotomy.  I am not Yin and Yang, I am a blend of all the universe has to offer.  Transition is less and less about the journey from guy to gal, although that continues, but more about the journey from persona to person.

"Working sincerely and honestly and feeling right while transitioning defines my journey of change."  Yes Tessa, I so agree that sincerity is the defining trait of transition which can only be accomplished by an honest and open examination of who I am. I have to cast off the chains of my oppressors to become me, and I am both the oppressed and the oppressor in your metaphor.

My male persona was not authentic, neither was he a lie.  He was the best I could do at the time with what I believed to be true.  So, can sincere inauthenticity be acceptable?  For a while I think it can or I would have spent much more time in the psych ward on suicide watch.  But there is the rub, for me to live the persona leads inexorably to despair, and if I persist long enough to emotional  or physical death.

The good news is that seeking an authentic life is a phoenix exploding from the ashes of who I tried to be.  And since that flight is fueled by acceptance of the search, it is filled with color and excitement.  (Whew, sometimes I mix metaphors until there is a patina of chaos in my thoughts, but I don't know how not to.)  I am thriving on the conversation, and by the freedom of action in discarding most of my check boxes.  That freedom does include trying to make myself pretty, and trying to blend socially.  But I do not live in stealth, nor do I take umbrage when misgendered.  Actually I'm not sure that I can be misgendered.  Gender queer? trans female, cis-male, they all feel mostly OK.  If wishes were fishes, as Tessa says, I would have been raised a girl regardless of my genotype.

I wasn't, but that is becoming OK as I travel through life.  Next year I will have surgery, and be anatomically female.  Will that make being addressed as sir more or less annoying?  When I am addressed as a woman, I feel affirmed.  Will that simply fade away as it loses its novelty?  Know what?  I don't much care.  However I am imagined by others is their business, how I am imagined by myself is mine.  It seems simple, but is actually hard.  I often imagine myself in the third person.  The integration of male, female, queer is not complete.  I am not a multiple, but sometimes it feels like that disassociation is immanent.

The costs of an authentic life are real, but mostly paid.  I have lost love, but I've gained both love and respect. 

So somewhere I seem to recall that Satinjoy asked the question as to what it means to be authentic.  It think that it means to be the best me I can be.  Not hiding, not shading the truth, being willing to accept the costs and to delight in the evolution.  It means loving without condition, and nurturing without expectation.  It means embracing spontaneity and owning responsibility, but eschewing rigidity.  It means living in the fullest most joyful way I know how, and to know that the knowledge will expand for as long as I live.  It means laughing, helping, building, crying, even destroying.

I am reminded of Pete Seger who quoting Ecclesiastes, "To everything turn, turn, turn, there is a season turn, turn, turn, and a time to every season under heaven."  Embracing and acknowledging that, is what I believe is the essence of what it means to be authentic, and also what it means to be truly alive.

j

I think it's way overrated.

I tend to be more pragmatic about things. In general terms, not even about gender, a lot of people shoot themselves in the foot by being authentic. Does it really help ones career going into a job interview with visible tattoos that could be covered up? Does it really help you going to court dressed like a slob because that's how you normally dress?

And yes, unfortunately, the same thing applies to gender, does being authentic really serve your purposes? Is it worth getting beat up? Is it worth not being able to get a good job? Is it worth losing your family over? To me it's not. Yeah, I am a girl inside, but I'd rather have a nice job, and all that, than be authentic and be in a much worse situation.

We are all actors, whether we want be or not. Those that don't get that usually aren't all that successful in life. The only other way is to be so arrogant and/or confident that your presence just overwhelms everyone...

That said, I am not totally pragmatic either. I have to not worry about what mannerisms I have or what words come out of my mouth or none do. There is always a slight hint of androgyny in my physical appearance as well, but just that, in those situations where I am called to play the role of a guy.

JB/VL

Great posts. Julie,  I think you capture the nature of authenticity but accept Veronica's view that authenticity may sometimes be over rated or perhaps even confusing, confounding or potentially dangerous.

I really need to think about non binary identity and authentic presentation   The issue I have is that a binary transition, for a non binary like me, almost seems contradictory.   Is it driven by the attraction of a fresh start, improved ability to integrate or access other binary characteristics or, as in the case of MTF, does it take you to a presentation where society allows and understands a more nuanced or non binary presentation ?

Aisla

Waaaash, a Great Wall of text!  @.@

TL;DR . J/k

JB - I think you're on the mark on being totally honest.  The question is - is it appropriate for each person?

VL - I feel your comment on the possible costs of genuine honesty in gender presentation salient.  I'd agree that we tend not to be honest with one another - we change our outward mask depending on whom we are interacting in order to keep our interactions "harmonious"

Definitely, it is harder for mta presenting more on the femme side vs fta.  A woman posing as a man is strong, a man posing as a woman is weak - that is the long held stereotype in society, and it will be a long time before that changes.  For those of us who are non binary - it's a suffocating double standard.

Most certainly, there is an attraction for me in going mtf then fta due to the flexibility in presentation that society allows.  Sometime I wonder if this is one of the possible core reasons for my dysphoria.