Yesterday my mom and I were talking, and I think she's finally opened up to me on why she won't be supportive towards me. She told me that it's because of her beliefs, and that if she were to condone what I'm doing she'd also lose her Christianity beliefs as well. So I'm being faced with a pretty obvious sitaution here which is that if I want to go further and start living full time, I am going to lose everything.

Gina 

Gina,
  I'm really sorry that your mom has put you in a place where you have to choose. I know that must be hard. I just can't imagine giving my child a choice like that. I hope someday you will be able to work things out, whatever you do. It will not be easy, but follow your heart and your feelings. Be true to yourself as you are the one who has to look into the mirror everyday.
Sheila

It has been awhile since you PM'd me and I have returned. (Post op)
My Mom has pretty much lost her memory so from day to day she does not even know me. So count your blessings after time every mother has a personal affections for her children. After time passes she will see her protests did not succeed and accept you.

Maybe you need to remind Mom that Jesus never said anything against TS or TG people. He said things like "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Also, the only reference against men lying with men is in Ecclesiastes which was written about 250 BCE. Nothing to do with Christianity. At least not as outlined by Jesus.

Good luck to you anyway. You might have to do this without Mom.  And Mom doesn't represent everything. On the other hand, she might just figure out holding to her views is not worth it.

Be patient with her Gina... Google "transgender Christianity"  there were a couple of hits that seemed helpful for Christian acceptance...

The best way for you to get acceptance from her is to educate her... She is scared because she doesn't know.

invite her to come to Susan's, we have a significant other's area... albeit rarely used... she can ask questions and receive support here.

Give it some time. Theres much horrible things I can say right now, but I choose not to.


...Not about you though. Heh

Be patient with her.  Talk to her often and tell her that you love her.  If the TG thing becomes a topic for dispute, avoid it whenever possible.  Never hang up on her or leave without telling her how much she means to you.

You'd be surprised how much love can smooth the way.  That was the powerful message of Jesus.  Love.

Cindi

Gina,

I am  a transgender Christian. I to struggled with this issue as a Christian before accepting who I was. I have researched this as a theological issue. It is an interesting subject and one that the church has to deal with. I do not consider myself liberal in fact evangelical.

Anyway he's what I have found. Deuteronomy 22 verse 5, seems to say that it is wrong to crossdress and that God detests anyone who does. However that must be seen in the context of the verse. It seems that this is early on in God's progressive revelation and may be more to do with bad practice in ritual temple prostitution. So God's people should not do this as a means of idolatry. I hope I am explaining it OK.

There is silence after this for hundreds of years until the New Testament. Which again suggests it being forbidden because of the temple prostitution and gaining access to the temple. One thing that seems to be a green light for acceptance within Christianity is in the promise and faithful blessing to the eunacchs in Isaiah 56verses 4,5 and in Acts 8:26-39. Enunchs are the closest thing in scripture to transexuals as far as I can see. They are accepted by faith and forgiven like the rest of us. God actually sends philip to meet one such person whom he baptises and sends them on their way rejoicing. Their condition is not even the subject of conversation, no can't because they are a eunuch, etc.

I think so many Christian are oblivious to God's blessing for transsexual people and any other for that matter.

Hope that helps

Gina

Hugs

Nigella

Quote from: Nigella on September 06, 2007, 02:08:50 PM

Anyway he's what I have found. Deuteronomy 22 verse 5, seems to say that it is wrong to crossdress and that God detests anyone who does. However that must be seen in the context of the verse. It seems that this is early on in God's progressive revelation and may be more to do with bad practice in ritual temple prostitution. So God's people should not do this as a means of idolatry. I hope I am explaining it OK.

Nigella,

I am Jewish, and have also been interested in understanding biblical attitudes and laws regarding gender variant people. One rabbinical opinion I've read regarding this scripture is that the law was against use of cross dressing to deceive someone, such as to commit adultery or criminal activity. So if one is cross dressing to express who they are, this wouldn't be considered an abomination.

Zythyra

Quote from: y2gender on September 06, 2007, 02:18:56 PM

Quote from: Nigella on September 06, 2007, 02:08:50 PM



Nigella,

I am Jewish, and have also been interested in understanding biblical attitudes and laws regarding gender variant people. One rabbinical opinion I've read regarding this scripture is that the law was against use of cross dressing to deceive someone, such as to commit adultery or criminal activity. So if one is cross dressing to express who they are, this wouldn't be considered an abomination.

Zythyra

I agree with you Zythra I have read that too. Rabbi Shlomo Yizchaki (medieval time) said that women who dress like men is for no reason other than to fornicate. So the cross dressing (this being a case of female to male) is interpreted for immoral purposes and nothing to do with the condition of GID. In the Mishne Torah of Rabbi Moses Maimonides Deuteronomy 22 verse 5 is debated under the section dealing with idolitry which would also fit my point.

Anything that is mentioned about transsexual behaviour in Judaism or Christianity is to do with the act of deception for immoral purposes and I repeat not GID.

I have also read about the Jewish teaching manual the Shulhan Arukh which permitted a certain amount of cross dressing in the feast of Queen Esther (Purim). This was for the reason of rejoicing not immorality.

hugs

Nigella

Gina, remind your mother what Jesus said when he was asked by the 12 what heaven was like, "There are no free nor slave, no male nor female....." as for the Old Testament passage that speaks to a man lying with a man; Paul teaches that that if you condemn yourself to one part of the law then you are bound by all of the law.  Also Christ came to fulfill the law not to condemn.  Then there is Genesis, God created man, He created male and female, He created him. Any believe that in Adam, God had created one being that was both male and female.  And when the sleep came upon Adam, God removed the portion from Adam that was female and used it to create Eve.  My prays are with you and good luck in whatever you choose to do.

Quote from: gina_taylor on September 05, 2007, 07:04:17 PM
Yesterday my mom and I were talking, and I think she's finally opened up to me on why she won't be supportive towards me. She told me that it's because of her beliefs, and that if she were to condone what I'm doing she'd also lose her Christianity beliefs as well. So I'm being faced with a pretty obvious sitaution here which is that if I want to go further and start living full time, I am going to lose everything.

Well, I would not go so far as to say you will lose everything.
It would be interesting to hear what her beliefs are and what her 'christian' beliefs are and what the basis of them is.

It is really hurtful when someone you love does not support you. I hope she comes round to seeing the wonderful daughter she has.

Quote from: y2gender on September 06, 2007, 02:18:56 PM
I am Jewish, and have also been interested in understanding biblical attitudes and laws regarding gender variant people. One rabbinical opinion I've read regarding this scripture is that the law was against use of cross dressing to deceive someone, such as to commit adultery or criminal activity. So if one is cross dressing to express who they are, this wouldn't be considered an abomination.

One word.  Purim.

QuoteOne word.  Purim.

Lisbeth, I'd like to celebrate Purim year round 

Zythyra

Thanks for all your replies. Shiela, my mom is very old fashioned and that is why she can't see anything good. She believes that bad things will happen. But I try to stay true to myself at all times. I'm sorry for not keeping in touch with you Lisagurl. I'm really happy to hear that you're now postop. I'm sorry to hear about your mom's lack of memory for you, but you are right. I should consider myself lucky that my mom has some affections for her children. My mom takes the Bible literally and everything written should be taken seriously. I will bring to her attention about the differences between the old testament and the new testament and what Jesus had said. Alison, you'll never believe how many times I've tried to 'educate' my mom but she just tells me that she already knows, and that she doesn't need to be educated. But I will try.
Now what i menat by losing everything, is that if I do decide to go full time, I've lost my job and along with that my financial stability and I'll never be able to see my two year old niece who adores me.

Gina 

Gina,

Thinking of you.

Big Hug

Nigella

Thanks for the big hug Nigella. In my troubled times, I need it.

Gina 

QuoteYesterday my mom and I were talking, and I think she's finally opened up to me on why she won't be supportive towards me. She told me that it's because of her beliefs, and that if she were to condone what I'm doing she'd also lose her Christianity beliefs as well. So I'm being faced with a pretty obvious sitaution here which is that if I want to go further and start living full time, I am going to lose everything.

She doesn't have to "condone" what you're doing to be supportive. She can love you, help you, be kind to you, and have you over for dinner, all without budging an inch with her beliefs. (Of course, this is kind of hard to convey to some people...I sympathize...)

Point out to her the following verses:

Jesus said:

QuoteFor there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. -- Matthew 19:12

God said:

QuoteFor thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. -- Isaiah 56:4-5

Moving this thread to the Christanity forum

Gosh, how did I miss this one?

Anyway, I know that when a family member shuts out their support for religious reasons, it's extremely hurtful. I'm sorry you have to go through that.

Some people just don't want to see beyond their doctrine, which is sad.

There's a great list of articles on whosoever.org on being transgender and Christian:

http://www.whosoever.org/v2Issue2/

My prayers are with you!