I mean, obviously it's oral, but does bypassing the liver to go straight to the bloodstream lessen the effect from nicotine at all?

Jenny we probably do haha there's only a few in the whole state from what I know that do it downside is its expensive but better results and less health risk I'm willing to pay for it

You get what you pay for and that includes hormones

Kinda scary when k here these girls talking about all the orals and there's lots of research to back it up and also patches are a waist of time I had a friend on them she was 18 and used for a year did hardly anything plus the dose is so ridiculously low it's like throwing your money away any who to anyone  I offended I wasn't trying to be mean just giving some facts out to you all

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 24, 2014, 05:15:55 PM
Sounds like we have the same endo maybe? I am in California as well. I've never put a single hormone / antiandrogen pill in my mouth and I never will.

Always happy to hear of another person using pellets- I wish I could convince everyone to go this route. You are very right about the consistency and happiness thing. Not to mention you pretty much forget you're on HRT at all

Ok, yeah that would be pretty amazing

I gotta ask about different delivery methods next time I see my endo.  So, the cost is higher I gather.  Luckily my insurance picks up most of the cost of orals right now, I wonder if they would for something like that.  Just have to see I guess.

Amazing autumn. Yes there's multiple ways some with higher risk and different benefits I pay out of pocket which sucks but it's what I have to do my insurance doesn't cover it pellets are nice because they last 3-6 months and some people longer no stress on liver downside cost haha I pay about 650-800 depending on how much I get tho for health risk it's alot better my endo has only ever had 2 patients on hrt that had blood clots and it's because they flew on a plane and didn't take aspirin before hand and one was very over weight so in 30 yrs of him helping I liked his stats and how he explained it all I would see what your endo says best of luck

wow great info here

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 23, 2014, 09:17:17 PM
Speaking of addictions, I wish that endocrinologists would kick their addiction to prescribing oral HRT! If demand was higher for other methods, it would surely become cheaper and better for everyone.

I spoke to mine about this, who said that they prefer oral as they are more consistently picked up on blood assay. I had a very low estrogen level until my patch was changed to another brand, which was apparently because it was not picked up well. I am not really sure how that can happen between branding of supposedly identical products, so I remain a little sceptical, but when we discussed my preference for patches and their desire to move me to orals, which I resisted, these were some of the things they said. 

Kira I would be skeptical seeing is if a endo has been around for awhile and "prefers" orals and between the patches from what my doctor said it's like .25% of what a trans needs plus going threw the skin lowers the dose but if it's working then no reason to change I'm 24 and from what I know patches were a waist Cus I need stronger effects and pills I'm too scared Cus of my liver I thought about injection but the ups and downs not really a fun game to play so either way haha "p's sorry to rant" if your levels are good and your happy with results then awesome

Smoking IS bad for you. We've known this for decades but people still do it. We know nothing about e-cigs at this point. It's pending approval in the EU and further studies are being conducted on it's safety. What we do know is that there are people out there who do have bad reactions to some of the chemicals used. Don't think e-cigs are a risk free alternative to smoking.

Quote from: jname on June 25, 2014, 06:12:34 AM
Don't think e-cigs are a risk free alternative to smoking.

It's true, there is very very little info about it now. Luckily all of the chemicals used have been around for ages, like propylene glycol which is even used in asthma inhalers. But who knows, really.

Either way if you aren't allergic to PG (propylene glycol) it seems a pretty safe option.

But... who knows really

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 25, 2014, 06:52:19 AM
It's true, there is very very little info about it now. Luckily all of the chemicals used have been around for ages, like propylene glycol which is even used in asthma inhalers. But who knows, really.

Either way if you aren't allergic to PG (propylene glycol) it seems a pretty safe option.

But... who knows really

I do know a fair few people allergic to PG. Some on this site.

The problem is when that vapour is released and comes into contact with someone who is allergic, that's not fair, just like second hand smoke.

Quote from: KatVonDoom on June 24, 2014, 08:00:13 PM
I mean, obviously it's oral, but does bypassing the liver to go straight to the bloodstream lessen the effect from nicotine at all?

I think sublingually, there's still a fair amount that gets swallowed...so nicotine might still affect it, yes.

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on June 25, 2014, 01:34:24 AM
I spoke to mine about this, who said that they prefer oral as they are more consistently picked up on blood assay. I had a very low estrogen level until my patch was changed to another brand, which was apparently because it was not picked up well. I am not really sure how that can happen between branding of supposedly identical products, so I remain a little sceptical, but when we discussed my preference for patches and their desire to move me to orals, which I resisted, these were some of the things they said.

Estradiol is estradiol. Whether delivered by pellets, injections, patches, orals, it will be picked up by the blood test because all deliveries get estradiol into the blood. That explanation makes no sense whatsoever. If blood test picks up very low levels, it's because it's either not absorbing well (gel, patch, cream), your body is metabolizing it quickly and quite efficiently (i.e. orals) or that the dose you're on is just low.

Quote from: Jessica90 on June 25, 2014, 01:43:47 AM
I thought about injection but the ups and downs not really a fun game to play

I and many other transwomen on injections don't have this problem. This can be easily circumvented by taking the injection frequently enough, usually weekly. Some fluctuation though is actually good to prevent cells from eventually desensitizing to estradiol levels that are too stable. Injections are also much less expensive and just as good as pellets for yielding high levels of estrogen. They also leave no scars or, at least, it's VERY rare!

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 25, 2014, 06:52:19 AM
It's true, there is very very little info about it now. Luckily all of the chemicals used have been around for ages, like propylene glycol which is even used in asthma inhalers. But who knows, really.

Either way if you aren't allergic to PG (propylene glycol) it seems a pretty safe option.

But... who knows really

I think propylene glycol is also used in some gels that deliver estrogen. So yea...

Sorry, so just to clarify, nicotine will have no effect on estrogen levels or absorption if your not on pills?

I'm going out of my mind reading through all these papers online correlating cigarette smoking to early menopause :S

It appears, according to scientific data, that nicotine will not affect (i.e. reduce) estradiol concentrations if exogenous estradiol is taken non-orally. But, nicotine/smoking is in general not advised for its health risks, including increasing risk of blood clots.  The sooner you quit, the better but I know it can be hard. I used to be a smoker but in the end, it's soooooooo worth it!

Quote from: KayXo on June 30, 2014, 10:40:11 AM
It appears, according to scientific data, that nicotine will not affect (i.e. reduce) estradiol concentrations if exogenous estradiol is taken non-orally. But, nicotine/smoking is in general not advised for its health risks, including increasing risk of blood clots.  The sooner you quit, the better but I know it can be hard. I used to be a smoker but in the end, it's soooooooo worth it!

Oh i don't smoke I;m concerned about the effects of second hand smoke, sometimes it's hard to avoid.

Thank you for clarifying :x