Being told you're an abomination can have deadly results.

BY CONNOR BRASSINGTON JUNE 30 2014 5:30 AM ET

I stood in the rain peering over the bridge onto U.S. 31, not even a mile from the campus of Andrews University. Not caring to dry my face, I let the raindrops trickle down my forehead and onto my eyes, mixing with the salt from my tears.

What would a wet face matter anyway if in a few minutes I'd be lying unconscious on the asphalt of the highway below? It was Saturday night, October 13, 2012, and I was determined to end my miserable existence.

I wrestled with depression since the eighth grade, when I made the connection between the attractions I was having and the words that society — specifically the church — used to label people like me. I was a ->-bleeped-<-got, a homo, a freak, and an abomination in the eyes of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. The only options I was offered were celibacy, a life of lies, or sin. I wasn't OK with any of those choices.

More: http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2014/06/30/op-ed-how-my-conservative-religion-almost-killed-me

I wish there were a way to help religious folks see which elements of their religions were created by humans and weren't actually mandated by heaven.

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 30, 2014, 09:00:17 AM
I wish there were a way to help religious folks see which elements of their religions were created by humans and weren't actually mandated by heaven.

Given an omnipotent, omniscient God, the only aspect that was actually created by humans is the way things are interpreted. And even that is a matter of he-said she-said as far as who's right.

I'm glad you stopped with those two. I can't reconcile omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.

I doubt Deity speaks clearly and directly to very many of those who claim to hear.

Most religious people don't believe what they ate supposed to believe. Being a Christian means acting like Christ. He loved everyone and accepted everyone without exception. He believed in helping everyone including those less fortunate. Most Christians won't lift a finger to help anyone, are extremely discriminatory.

I know its not universal, but its common. My ex fiance was a waitress and said they used to fight over not working on Sundays. The church crowd would not tip or tip badly. Fortunately my parents have found that some churches are accepting as they should be. They told me they had a lesbian in a position of authority.

anyway since usually most churches, especially here in the south, are discriminatory I don't go anymore and have no intention of going either.

Quote from: awilliams1701 on June 30, 2014, 12:51:03 PM
Most religious people don't believe what they ate supposed to believe. Being a Christian means acting like Christ. He loved everyone and accepted everyone without exception. He believed in helping everyone including those less fortunate. Most Christians won't lift a finger to help anyone, are extremely discriminatory.

I know its not universal, but its common. My ex fiance was a waitress and said they used to fight over not working on Sundays. The church crowd would not tip or tip badly. Fortunately my parents have found that some churches are accepting as they should be. They told me they had a lesbian in a position of authority.

anyway since usually most churches, especially here in the south, are discriminatory I don't go anymore and have no intention of going either.

Most Christians I've met have been extremely generous and selfless, even for those who are living in what they consider sin. Your negative generalizations and stereotypes are kinda harmful.

Well that's why I said its not always true, but in my personal experience it is true. I haven't come out yet, but I expect it to stir the hornets nest. I have 2 sisters that don't accept LGBT in the name of religion. One is tolerant and the other will use anything she can find to attack you with her bible. I'm hoping when I come out to both that the homophobic one will become more tolerant. Unfortunately she married a pro old testament man who who told me all gay people should be stoned. This is not a good starting point.

Quote from: suzifrommd on June 30, 2014, 09:00:17 AM
I wish there were a way to help religious folks see which elements of their religions were created by humans and weren't actually mandated by heaven.

I second that one. But unfortunately people will fall for charisma, the fear of eternal damnation the promise of reward and so on. I mean the whole concept of the hell that is accepted by mainstream religions comes from a book called Dante's Inferno. Fiction. "Abandon all Hope Ye who Enter Here." the seven levels of Hell and so on. The pits of hell that Christ speaks of were pits outside of the cities that refuse would burn day and night. When a criminal (bad sinner) was caught and the crime bad enough for execution the criminal's body would be thrown into those burning fire pits with trash instead of proper burial. Even the Seven Deadly Sins aren't in the Bible. They were written 500 years give or take after the fact. Maybe even in the medival peroid. I really can't remember but all they are is animalistic instincts.

But you have to do a little research to find these things. A little history has to be looked up and it is much easier to listen to someone with supposed inside information than forming your own thoughts. I don't remember Christ in the Bible calling anyone abominations, maybe the moneychangers or the heads of the temple that were profiting for selling the meat for burnt offerings and that pissed him off and sealed his fate. No more Mr Niceguys from the temple. Corruption run amock.

But anyway it is sad that someone actually considers ending their life over being made to feel like an abomination. This person may have been seen like that in the eyes of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, but definately not in the eyes of God or Christ. Most churches look at me like that but I got to live my life I don't need them and really don't care if they need me.

Several weeks ago I was in the West Hollywood Pride parade with a group from my Christian denomination who for the most part were TGLBQIA with one or two SO's and even children, an experience I have written about in the Christianity Forum, never the less, we were loudly denounced by another "Christian" group who were not marching, and were shouting waves of hate.  As a member of a TLGBQIA group in my national church, I have been following a blog with our members being part of that life, and the stories of people who see us and thank us for being who we are.  The haters do exist, I do exist.  My Bible was at home that day but I knew where its nominal author was, in the hearts of my companions.  To paraphrase one verse ---

"My works are not my faith, and my faith is not my works, but by my works you shall know my faith."

Quote from: Vicky on July 01, 2014, 10:20:18 AM
Several weeks ago I was in the West Hollywood Pride parade with a group from my Christian denomination who for the most part were TGLBQIA with one or two SO's and even children, an experience I have written about in the Christianity Forum, never the less, we were loudly denounced by another "Christian" group who were not marching, and were shouting waves of hate.  As a member of a TLGBQIA group in my national church, I have been following a blog with our members being part of that life, and the stories of people who see us and thank us for being who we are.  The haters do exist, I do exist.  My Bible was at home that day but I knew where its nominal author was, in the hearts of my companions.  To paraphrase one verse ---

"My works are not my faith, and my faith is not my works, but by my works you shall know my faith."

My God Vicky and people wonder why I despise society. When christians (with a little "c") belittle and judge other Christians it kind of blows the "Judge not lest ye be judged" rule out of the water. You know I really wish I could be psychic at times because I would probably be amazed at all the sin in the hearts of the haters screaming at ya'll. No I probably wouldn't be that amazed probably more like horrified. Thank God I can't read minds after all.

But good for ya'll. It is hard for me to believe that christians would be screaming hate when their were children present.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 30, 2014, 01:19:13 PMI don't remember Christ in the Bible calling anyone abominations

I don't believe he did, however, he is the son of God but also God and in the old testament, God was stating what people (or the people of Israel) can and can't do, one of which was, that man shall not lay with man as he doth a woman, for it IS an abomination. Now did he call the person an abomination? No, but people may interpret it as that but the truth is he called the act an abomination. I should note here, he didn't call it a sin, he called it an abomination and as I've said countless times, that word has many different meanings including disliked, frowned upon and greatly disliked and more, heck, I ever recently re-read what they all are and "sin" is not one of those meanings, yet, people still interpret that as sin for some reason. 

Quote from: Shana-chan on July 03, 2014, 10:29:15 AM
God was stating what people (or the people of Israel) can and can't do, one of which was, that man shall not lay with man as he doth a woman, for it IS an abomination.

Actually, that's just one possible transition. I remember hearing a biblical scholar make a case for a translation something like "a man shall not lay with man in his wife's bed..."

Quote from: Shana-chan on July 03, 2014, 10:29:15 AM
I don't believe he did, however, he is the son of God but also God and in the old testament, God was stating what people (or the people of Israel) can and can't do, one of which was, that man shall not lay with man as he doth a woman, for it IS an abomination. Now did he call the person an abomination? No, but people may interpret it as that but the truth is he called the act an abomination. I should note here, he didn't call it a sin, he called it an abomination and as I've said countless times, that word has many different meanings including disliked, frowned upon and greatly disliked and more, heck, I ever recently re-read what they all are and "sin" is not one of those meanings, yet, people still interpret that as sin for some reason. 

Christ is called the Son of God and the son of man. I believe that holds a lot of weight since I think Christ was less of an idol to be worshipped than a Great Teacher, maybe a little older Spirtually than us. But I think the great message was that Christ tried to teach us that we are all Sons and Daughters of God and man and created with the same Love that he himself was and that we have all the possiblities within us that he did.

The part about a man laying with another man, is that a law in a physcal sense or Spirtual sense? We M2F are not men in a Spiritual sence. Or at least I'm not so I really don't want to speak for everyone. We all may be a mix and match but my Psyche, the greek word for Soul is definately not male. I most definately would rather experience love as a female because that is what I feel inside and my identity is more along that line. Sex is just an an urge that stems from love and a giving that part of yourself to someone that you love.

The bible is so vague and confusing a lot of times at what is man's law and God's Laws. God Laws I see as the ten comandments anything else I am leary of as coming from and and even the Ten Commandments but they jsut seem right because it raises us thought wise above all the otehr species and animals of the world.