I have posted about this before but ended up deleting the thread before I got replies because I feel really silly worrying about this. This is a sorta long post, but I would really appreciate advice, even if it is just ' get over it and stop caring what other people think'

I want to keep going to a coffee shop I went to before I started HRT. It is most convenient, they always do my drink right, etc... but, I have been going there for coming on a few years now. And, it is a chain, and I have gone most mornings for my entire adult life at various stores at different locations, even through moves across the country. It is a stable part of my routine. I go at least 5 days a week.

I want to be anonymous in pretty much all situations, but despite this they know me - some of the same people have been working there since I moved here and started going to this store. They all want to give good customer service and be friendly and chatty with me, but I don't want them to. I want my drink and I want to leave, as soon as possible. I hate small talk with a passion, but they feel obligated to do their job and be nice to me.

The thing is - at this store, while I would pass to new people sometimes, mostly I got the impression I was just the weird genderless thing that they saw frequently, so really they just didn't gender me at all. A couple that were friendly with me she'd me, and I didn't correct them because it was before HRT.

I have been on T awhile now, a very low dose at first- but the changes are coming in force now. My voice has dropped. I have side burns - I can grow a lame chin beard, but I shave it most of the time.

I tried switching stores (it is a chain after all) but I had to go out my way to do so, and one of the people from the other store showed up after a transfer or something and while being chatty and friendly with me, she she'd me in front of everyone, including people that had sir'ed me for the couple of months I'd been at the other store. Awkward. No reason to go out of my way there now.

So, I went back to the one I always go to after 3-4 months of not going there. I got the impression that once I showed up with some clear facial hair, the gender ambiguity was gone. Maybe.

There was one occasion where someone working there just started laughing when I ordered after I started going there again, it seemed like a reaction to my voice right after it dropped (as in, they spoke to me 5 days a week for a couple of years with female voice, I came back with facial hair and a more male voice).

She walked away, and someone else came up and said, "she's really embarrassed..." and I have no idea what it was about, but it was obviously related to me in some way. I didn't really care at the time as I chalked it up to my voice dropping and her realizing she'd been gendering me incorrectly. I actually sorta felt good about it because of this, even though there was the chance it was the other way around, but whatever.

Then, yesterday I went like always- and one of the people there she'd me again in front of people that have seen me with facial hair.  I didn't correct her when I had the chance to clear everything up. I just took my drink and left.

The anxiety I have surrounding this simple act of buying a caffeinated drink every morning is nuts. It is part of my routine, I used to really enjoy it. I want to again, but this is really starting to bother me. I don't want to have to drive way out of my way to go to an even farther store to continue to do the same routine I have done for many years, especially because last time I tried, it didn't work.

What would you do? Is this really silly, or has anyone else obsessed over something like this?

Basically I just need to get over people who knew me from before thinking I am Pat from SNL or a really weird woman with facial hair and unshaved legs in shorts.

I keep wondering why I didn't just correct her yesterday and set the record straight. But the awkward vibe was starting to show itself, and I just didn't have the courage to do so.  Generally, in every interaction with random strangers, I never know if I pass or not. It is not great.

Why don't you correct them next time they call you "she?"

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 06:20:27 PM
Why don't you correct them next time they call you "she?"

I will, as long as I don't wimp out (I will be prepared for it this time) - but most of them just don't gender me. 

The employee sorta forced it into conversation this time, so I kinda feel like she was 'trying to resolve the issue' after that other barista laughed at me for whatever reason, and now I missed the chance.

Also, I know that I have a tendency to over think this and make things about myself when mostly other people are focused on themselves not others, but I worked at the same chain coffee store way, way back in the day in another state, and we totally talked about the weird customers after they left, so I feel like the "is that a man or a woman?" conversation happens

Also - I should add that I have talked to my partner and my therapist about the anxiety I have over this, and they both said "Who cares? Get over it" mostly, but in nicer ways

Are there any tricks to get over this? People get so flustered when they think they have gendered you incorrectly.

You can do it!
It's possible that conversation happens, but as you know, they're ultimately more interested in their lives than yours.
As for tips, I'm not entirely sure. I still struggle with things like this too. Practice I guess.

I've actually been in this literal situation - going to the local Starbucks for years and years and then transitioning, and I'm super shy so I couldn't figure out any way to explain to them (if there IS a non-TMI/non-awkward way, I don't know it). I went with never saying anything, and the funny thing is, they all assume I'm female *and have been all along.* And it sounds like the same might be true for you; they've never really thought about it, and now that you're unambiguously male they assume you have been and they just couldn't tell. If she's embarrassed, after all, that means she thinks SHE made the mistake. To reiterate, she thinks not that you're some kind of weirdo, but that she screwed up. In fact, they probably think you've just been too polite to correct them when they thought you were female, exactly as a shy soft-spoken cis guy might have been.

Give it a few more weeks, and I bet it'll be a nonissue.

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 06:34:30 PM
You can do it!
It's possible that conversation happens, but as you know, they're ultimately more interested in their lives than yours.
As for tips, I'm not entirely sure. I still struggle with things like this too. Practice I guess.

Yeah. Practice. I didn't really realize that this part of it would be so difficult before I started transitioning.

Mostly I just wish I knew how people were gendering me when they interacted with me, in all situations, not just the coffee shop. I look really young too if I pass, so that is another dimension that is confusing to navigate.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 10, 2014, 06:41:08 PM
I've actually been in this literal situation - going to the local Starbucks for years and years and then transitioning, and I'm super shy so I couldn't figure out any way to explain to them (if there IS a non-TMI/non-awkward way, I don't know it). I went with never saying anything, and the funny thing is, they all assume I'm female *and have been all along.* And it sounds like the same might be true for you; they've never really thought about it, and now that you're unambiguously male they assume you have been and they just couldn't tell. If she's embarrassed, after all, that means she thinks SHE made the mistake. To reiterate, she thinks not that you're some kind of weirdo, but that she screwed up. In fact, they probably think you've just been too polite to correct them when they thought you were female, exactly as a shy soft-spoken cis guy might have been.

Give it a few more weeks, and I bet it'll be a nonissue.

I am glad to hear someone else had to deal with this same problem, so now I don't feel so silly - even though it sucks to go through. I thought for sure I couldn't be the only one. I hope you are right.

Next time it comes up, just say, "Listen, I'm not offended, but I'm a guy." As long as you're non challant and don't give them reason to feel embarrassed, it will probably go smoothly.

The last time this happened to me, I made a big joke out of it and it hasn't happened since - and I felt amazing after the experience, instead of hurt and bewildered. Perhaps trying a bit of humour might work for you too?

I was buying multiple drinks and the barista asked 'Would you like a carrier for your drinks, madam?'. I'd only been on T for a few months and wasn't passing yet, but it stung like a slap in the face. So I called on my knowledge of method acting and thought to myself: what would a cisguy do if somebody said that to him?

So I blushed, looked startled and blurted out: 'Madam!?!? I should bloody well hope not!' and I looked pointedly down towards my crotch area. Then I started cracking jokes about having a sudden urge to go into the bathroom to check nothing's missing, and so on. The thing is: I wasn't even packing and of course I know exactly what really is missing down there. But nobody else in the shop knew that, and as long as you say it with confidence, you can carry it off. After all, a lot of cisguys tell tall tales all the time to massage their own egos. Why not give it a try?

And if you're worried about them having a conversation behind your back, might I suggest reflecting on the words of the late, great Coco Chanel?: "I don't care what you think of me. I don't think about you at all". (I know, easier said than done... but it gets easier with practice).

Oh, and if you're not sure you're passing, that lame chin beard can make all the difference. It certainly does for me.

i'm sorry, can't help you on this one. i only have to deal with that online as i'm still pretending to be cis offline. if you stay mysterious about your gender, people might start overthinking to such an extent that they end up settling for your presented gender. because that's safer than all the alternatives people can think up when they don't know which side you're coming from or going to, or if you even are.

one thing that might help, is if you pretend you were actually enjoying people being confused about your gender while you were still underdeveloped as a male, but have now decided to fit a little better into the male role than when you were younger and managed to like rather than hate your confusing girly appearance. i mean, it's fun to see people's reaction when they realize they made a mistake about your gender. especially online. i've even pretended to be a girl, just for fun, despite being born with a female body. (that was seriously difficult by the way. no matter how girly my parents tried to make me, or how much i still go for being female, i have no idea how girls talk or act. made me wonder what i'm still doing pretending to be cis.)