Quote from: Laura Squirrel on July 12, 2014, 07:03:57 PM
I ran out of tar. How about I grease & spoon you instead?

Oh no! not the greasy spoon!!!

Ally

I read it before I started my transition.   Figured even that was better than what was going on in my life.  Now, every time something good happens, I'm really excited.

Hugs

Jen

Quote from: Allyda on July 12, 2014, 08:30:18 PM
I had dial up internet (though back then it wasn't called the internet) in 1986, but I see your point though. It's the way she talks about the internet.

Ally

I still have dial-up. It's the only thing available in my area.

1986, huh? That's the year I was born, hehe~ We didn't have internet until '95-ish.

I personally think she has a rather cartoonish vision of both transitioning/transitioned trans women, and those who seek to transition, potentially even the female gender as a whole; which does a disservice to us all. All of our stories are the same? I don't think so lol.. It would be just laughable if that tirade wasn't doing any harm... I also think it is quite North American centric, the shrill tone seems tone seems to suggest that as the geographic source to me (I apologise to my North American sisters/friends, I'm not saying that's how any of you come across, it's just something I've noticed in popular media etc). As for me, I am not, nor will I ever be some nails and hair obsessed fashionista or some lace and silk obsessed closet fiend. The sort of women I look up to are intelligent and practical people, NZ has a fine tradition of educated, liberal and practical rural women. My mother, for example, runs her own agricultural business, drives tractors and four wheel motorbikes, and sails competitively. My grandmother could still shear a sheep into her 60's while running a multi million dollar family business, she is probably the most formidably intelligent person I've ever met too.

Anyway I'm starting my MSc in geology next year (fingers crossed some scholarships come through!), and I will just keep working towards being the calm, graceful, intelligent, educated (and hopefully respected) woman that any family would be proud of.

I read it when I first started accepting I was trans but the last part of it really pissed me off....  There are so many things in there that don't sit well with me, but reading things like this (and talking to my therapist) have helped me just embrace the fact that I am me, and I don't give a damn if anyone else labels me as a man, woman, straight, gay, trans, whatever.   I don't see why taking a "bastardization of a male name" as a female name even matters. 

If your friends and family all know and love you as "Jack" then a move to "Jacqueline" is not absurd in the least. 


You Shouldn't Transition If...

You shouldn't transition if you are a crossdresser, ->-bleeped-<-, or drag queen... if you have pictures of yourself on the net that are sexual in nature or of you in a hotel room... if female clothing turns you on... if you go to meetings at a crossdresser club, a transsexual club, or a gay rights group... if you are "out and proud" (lesbians don't count)... if you took a bastardization of a male name for your female name...if you took something like "Luvs" or "Aphrodite" or some other overly-feminine, ridiculous, childish word or name as part or all of your new name... if you hang out in drag bars... if your friends hang out in drag bars... if you have a "drag mother"... if you go out in 6" heels and mini skirts... if you own 6" heels and mini skirts... if you do not own a pair of jeans and sneakers... if you penetrate men in the anus during sexual intercourse... if you "dress up" to masturbate... if you can't have sex naked... if you think playing with your breasts after they grow would be "cool"... if you want to be a porn star or an escort after you transition... if you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards... if you still own a single item of male clothing... if you display photos of the "old" you... if you still have a single piece of your male life intact... if you still go out as a male for any reason now... if you do not plan on, are working towards, or already have tried to get GRS... if you do not have a plan that will see you through to stealth and beyond... if you think your voice doesn't need work... if you consider yourself a "transgender", "gender ->-bleeped-<-", or label yourself as anything other than a woman... if you describe yourself as "sexually confused", a "freak", or un-definable... if you plan on being a transsexual rather than a woman... if you want to keep your penis... if you think it will be easy... if you start a fight when you get clocked... if you haven't seen a psychiatrist, a doctor, and a lawyer yet... if you get your hormones without a legitimate prescription while under a doctors care... if you want more out of the transition than what any other woman out there has now... if you think transitioning will make you happy... if you want to become a transsexual, or, if you want to become a woman.

FilaFord : Good grief, there are cis women who think playing with their own breasts is cool, wear 6" heels, or like to penetrate men. Also, "because it'll make you happy" is a GOOD reason to transition!

(Oh, and don't do it if you want to become a transsexual *or* if you want to be a woman? What does that leave for a trans woman - only transition if you wanted to be a man?!)

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 12, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
FilaFord : Good grief, there are cis women who think playing with their own breasts is cool, wear 6" heels, or like to penetrate men. Also, "because it'll make you happy" is a GOOD reason to transition!

(Oh, and don't do it if you want to become a transsexual *or* if you want to be a woman? What does that leave for a trans woman - only transition if you wanted to be a man?!)

RIGHT!? 

Like seriously, I remember reading that and I was just floored.  I couldn't believe that an actual transwoman had written that garbage.  It was basically saying "if you are reading this page, then you shouldn't transition"

Reading it definitely helped though.  Although I look back and have some regrets regarding my transition, I have come a long damn way this year.  It amazes me when I think about it all really and my therapist is so encouraging.  She constantly praises me and says that she rarely sees someone progress at the rate that I have.  From self-denying, to part-time in about 6 months, and HRT and full-time by the end of the year.  I'm feeling mighty glad that I didn't listen to this article and not transition for any of those silly reasons.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 12, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
FilaFord : Good grief, there are cis women who think playing with their own breasts is cool, wear 6" heels, or like to penetrate men. Also, "because it'll make you happy" is a GOOD reason to transition!

(Oh, and don't do it if you want to become a transsexual *or* if you want to be a woman? What does that leave for a trans woman - only transition if you wanted to be a man?!)

Nah, what she's actually trying to say is that you should only transition if you ARE a woman, not because you want to "become" one. She talks about it in depth in the next chapter. Basically, her whole thesis is about how you have to have known you were really a woman from the age of 4-6 to be a "true" transsexual, and that if you're not a "true" transsexual you shouldn't transition at all. Again, it's just a bunch of "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" bulls*** where she's trying to say that she's more authentic and more female than everyone else because she's a WOMAN, not a tr***y.

QuoteYou Shouldn't Transition If...

You shouldn't transition if you are a crossdresser, ->-bleeped-<-, or drag queen... if you have pictures of yourself on the net that are sexual in nature or of you in a hotel room... if female clothing turns you on... if you go to meetings at a crossdresser club, a transsexual club, or a gay rights group... if you are "out and proud" (lesbians don't count)... if you took a bastardization of a male name for your female name...if you took something like "Luvs" or "Aphrodite" or some other overly-feminine, ridiculous, childish word or name as part or all of your new name... if you hang out in drag bars... if your friends hang out in drag bars... if you have a "drag mother"... if you go out in 6" heels and mini skirts... if you own 6" heels and mini skirts... if you do not own a pair of jeans and sneakers... if you penetrate men in the anus during sexual intercourse... if you "dress up" to masturbate... if you can't have sex naked... if you think playing with your breasts after they grow would be "cool"... if you want to be a porn star or an escort after you transition... if you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards... if you still own a single item of male clothing... if you display photos of the "old" you... if you still have a single piece of your male life intact... if you still go out as a male for any reason now... if you do not plan on, are working towards, or already have tried to get GRS... if you do not have a plan that will see you through to stealth and beyond... if you think your voice doesn't need work... if you consider yourself a "transgender", "gender <not allowed>", or label yourself as anything other than a woman... if you describe yourself as "sexually confused", a "freak", or un-definable... if you plan on being a transsexual rather than a woman... if you want to keep your penis... if you think it will be easy... if you start a fight when you get clocked... if you haven't seen a psychiatrist, a doctor, and a lawyer yet... if you get your hormones without a legitimate prescription while under a doctors care... if you want more out of the transition than what any other woman out there has now... if you think transitioning will make you happy... if you want to become a transsexual, or, if you want to become a woman.

*blink blink*

Um... exactly who does this leave?

I'm having trouble believing anyone could seriously write the above paragraph. Some of these are just utterly silly. Women never play with their own breasts? Women don't want to be women? Women shouldn't be happy? Well, I guess the last one explains a lot about why the author has the kind of attitude she does...

EDIT: Now that the initial shock has worn off, I can't resist dissecting this ludacris paragraph a little more...

First off, you shouldn't transition if you are a crossdresser? I thought early crossdressing was part of the standard transgender narrative that she seems so passionately beholden to.

What in the world does having sexy pictures of yourself on the internet have to do with anything? Is this supposed to suggest that if you are truly dysphoric, you wouldn't have posted pictures of your pre-transition body? I don't buy that at all. A lot of times people are manipulated into doing something like that, too. My ex is probably still in possession of some pictures I hope never see the light of day. 

You're apparently not allowed to support gay rights in any way if you are trans*. Okay... You know, it is possible to be both gay and trans. And being both myself, issues like marriage equality still affect me.

I can only be "out and proud" if I'm a lesbian? Am I reading that right? ...What?

Do I even need to dignify that bit about names with a rebuttal?

I'm not allowed to have friends who hang out in drag bars. Why? Why would I care what kind of places my friends hang out?

You're not trans if you don't own jeans and sneakers. Or if you do own heels and mini-skirts. She's taking fashion policing to a whole new level here.

Quoteif you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards...

Don't even know what to say about that particular sentence, other than it confuses me to no end.

Quoteif you still have a single piece of your male life intact...

Because you should be completely unrecognizable after transition and not have one single thing in common with your former life. Right. That makes sense. What kind of person is so shallow that all their interests and every aspect of their personality is tied into their gender?

Quoteif you still go out as a male for any reason now...

So all the trans women who force themselves to preset as male when going to visit family members who can't deal with the change aren't real women. Otherwise they would not even consider trying to keep their family relations intact.

Quoteif you do not plan on, are working towards, or already have tried to get GRS...

Well, I'm clearly not a real woman. Apparently being a woman is all about what you have or don't have between your legs. This REALLY bothers me because what it's implying is that women are mainly sex objects. That womanhood depends on your ability to have sex using a specific orifice. I'm sorry, but to me womanhood is about far more than my sex organs. In fact, they have very little to do with it.

Quoteif you do not have a plan that will see you through to stealth and beyond...

Never wanted to be stealth. If it's what some people want, that's fine, but I can't see how hiding my past somehow makes me more of a woman. If people can't accept the present, that's their problem, not mine.

Ehh... I think I've said enough. There are plenty of other parts I took issue with (practically all of it), but they really weren't worth commenting on.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 12, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
FilaFord : Good grief, there are cis women who think playing with their own breasts is cool, wear 6" heels, or like to penetrate men. Also, "because it'll make you happy" is a GOOD reason to transition!

(Oh, and don't do it if you want to become a transsexual *or* if you want to be a woman? What does that leave for a trans woman - only transition if you wanted to be a man?!)

To be the devils advocate, I think she means that you should already regard yourself as a women, and are just seeking to change the outside to match what you are on the inside.

Edit: Opps, Carrie beat me too it lol

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:09:00 PM
Nah, what she's actually trying to say is that you should only transition if you ARE a woman, not because you want to "become" one. She talks about it in depth in the next chapter. Basically, her whole thesis is about how you have to have known you were really a woman from the age of 4-6 to be a "true" transsexual, and that if you're not a "true" transsexual you shouldn't transition at all.

Meh, whatever.  Labels are for food and medicine.

There are so many variations on how people are raised.  Some of us knew when we were younger but repressed it to fit the mold that we imagined our beloved parents expected of us.  Reading her words make it sound as if she can just define such a broad-spectrum of people into whatever her perception of the word is and I disagree with it.

Sorry, but playing with your breasts can be cool.  Ask the millions of natal women out there that love to grab their fun bags while they have sex.   I've had a couple of handfuls myself.

FilaFord : I'm glad things are going so well for you! Clearly you're well-adjusted and transition is working for you, no matter what someone like this says.

Carrie Liz : Ah-ha. Thanks for clarifying, but I suspect you know what I think of that sort of true transsexual BS. Not to mention that someone who's truly secure in her own decisions doesn't need to to put other people down to prove she's right.

Pikachu : Your last line made me giggle!

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:09:00 PM
Basically, her whole thesis is about how you have to have known you were really a woman from the age of 4-6 to be a "true" transsexual, and that if you're not a "true" transsexual you shouldn't transition at all. Again, it's just a bunch of "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" bulls*** where she's trying to say that she's more authentic and more female than everyone else.

Lol, "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" you just made my day Carrie!! So true, and something I see on the net a lot. Ironic that these "->-bleeped-<-r that thou" bitches turn it into some d**k measuring contest..lol. Just chill out and get your T and sanctimony levels checked asap!

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:09:00 PM
Nah, what she's actually trying to say is that you should only transition if you ARE a woman, not because you want to "become" one. She talks about it in depth in the next chapter. Basically, her whole thesis is about how you have to have known you were really a woman from the age of 4-6 to be a "true" transsexual, and that if you're not a "true" transsexual you shouldn't transition at all. Again, it's just a bunch of "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" bulls*** where she's trying to say that she's more authentic and more female than everyone else because she's a WOMAN, not a tr***y.

Quote from: lemon_ice on July 12, 2014, 11:19:12 PM
Lol, "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" you just made my day Carrie!! So true, and something I see on the net a lot. Ironic that these "->-bleeped-<-r that thou" bitches turn it into some d**k measuring contest..lol. Just chill out and get your T and sanctimony levels checked asap!

These two quotes are loltastic. 

Thanks ladies, I always can use a good laugh

Quote from: lemon_ice on July 12, 2014, 11:19:12 PM
Lol, "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" you just made my day Carrie!! So true, and something I see on the net a lot. Ironic that these "->-bleeped-<-r that thou" bitches turn it into some d**k measuring contest..lol. Just chill out and get your T and sanctimony levels checked asap!

Pre-transition: "My dick is 9 inches" "Well mine is 10!"
Post-transition: "My vagina is 8 inches deep" "Well mine is 12!"

Some of the "->-bleeped-<-r Than Thou"(here after refered to as "T3") seem to have an attitude than trans women have to meet some caricature of a 1950's housewife, never minding the fact that plenty of ciswomen wear jeans, cut their hair short, sleep with other women, and hell occasionally even cowboy up and grab a rifle and stack on a door with SWAT. how does that make them any less of a woman? And why would that principle not also apply to transwomen?

I personally don't see it as a case of transitioning to be a woman in my case; I'm transitioning to be myself, and that person is closer to the female end of the spectrum.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 12, 2014, 11:28:35 PM
Pre-transition: "My dick is 9 inches" "Well mine is 10!"
Post-transition: "My vagina is 8 inches deep" "Well mine is 12!"

Jeez, you gotta warn me! LOL

*wipes spewed sparkling water off monitor*

You know, back when I first started doing research on wanting to be a woman, being trans, before I came here that is, or even found a support group, I came across that TRASH of a wiki. I read through some of it, most I don't remember and have just read some of it again just to make sure that was indeed the thing I read years back, it is. I DO NOT agree with how it tries to talk us out of transitioning. I do NOT agree with how dark, bleak and while yes that can happen, I'd like to think not ALL of it would happen to someone and so, I'll add unrealistic* with a * there as it does happen, just I don't think all that bad stuff happens to one person, so I don't agree with how it portrays it so dark and negatively. I do NOT agree with how it tries to scare, and shame trans people out of being who they truly are and I SURE AS HELL don't agree with the TONE the person who typed it up or some of the things they said in it. Lastly, I DO NOT agree with some of the things that were listed at the end there below You Shouldn't Transition If... , I don't remember what I read that long ago, and I'm not going to re-read it but I know some of what it said there was just wrong and not right. Thus, if someone wanted to transition, they should even if it was listed in there.

Also, from the article

So, You Want to be a T-Girl

So you do all this and you are ready to transition, huh? Good god, you have not heard a word I have said! Listen to me now...

The last thing you should ever hope for is that your bell goes off.

this is part of that tone I was referring too but, on top of it all, the "bell" that this person keeps referring too, I am interpreting that as, a trans person realizing they want to be a woman or a man etc. but what the person who typed this up DOESN'T REALIZE is that a trans person whose already got those feelings of wanting to be a male or a female etc. has already HAD that bell go off. This article imo is wrong, pointless, discrimination against trans people and does more harm to us than good. Down with it I say. (Disclaimer, I've only read parts of it a long time ago and a little just now, but what I read and what I typed here is how I feel about it)