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What does it feel like to know your gender?

Started by suzifrommd, July 14, 2014, 09:44:21 PM

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suzifrommd

Many trans folk talk about "knowing" that their gender is different from their body sex. Some at a very young age.

I've never had this experience. I assumed because I was male-bodied, I must be male gendered.

What does the message of your true gender feel/sound/look/seem like?

Apologies for reposting this, especially if you already responded. All the wonderful posts got lost in the Great Memory Wipe.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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sunandmoon

I've been looking for the answer to that for a few years. If you get the answer, please inform me :)
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Valleyrie

For me, it was never feeling comfortable with myself. I always hated looking at photos of me or even being in front of a camera whether it was on or off. I never liked being called handsome and I've always gotten along better with females. I used to try be very masculine and would pretend to be something I'm not which fed into my dysphoria a lot. I remember growing my hair out back in grade 6 and I absolutely loved it but my parents would always force me to get my hair cut short. I hated it and would always burst out in tears. I hated putting my gender down as male and would put it down as female on anonymous surveys back in school. I never knew why I was feeling like this until I finally found out what the word transgender actually meant. There's probably a lot more I could go on about but I won't. ;p

I am and have always been female. I guess I'd love to sound more feminine and have the curves and parts that most women do (only a dream for me right now).
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Jay27

I am gender fluid, but I guess I can still share my experience?

For as long as I can remember, I have felt somewhat uncomfortable with myself. My parents gave me Barbie dolls, which were okay, but I secretly really wanted to play Pokémon and Yu Gi Oh! games with my brothers as well. In school, all of the other girls would talk about things like shopping and cosmetics, but I couldn't really relate that well. I have a girlish and a boyish side, but for as long as I've lived I've been crammed up in the 'girl' box. Only recently have I looked at myself and realized what kind of a person I want to be. I would stand in front of the mirror and press my chest down flat, kind of wishing I was born in a different body. I don't want to completely abandon my girlhood, but I want to embrace the other me. I can't suppress it any longer, so it's time to let the boy inside of me come out for some air once in a while. Going outside of what I've grown up with, I feel like I have more freedom now. Things just feel more right than they ever have. I suppose that's what it is when you come in touch with who you truly are. 
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Carrie Liz

I didn't start experiencing dysphoria until I was a teenager, so I'm not one of those people who "always knew I was a girl" that you're probably looking for, but I still feel like I have something to say about this.

Through the posts on this site, and reading how people describe their own dysphoria, I have come to realize that there was no difference in our dysphoria. The only difference is that they understood these same feelings differently than I did.

As a kid, I was very much of the "well, everyone calls me a boy, and I have boy parts, so therefore I must be a boy" frame of mind.

When I started experiencing dysphoria as a teenager, I didn't experience it as "I am a girl," I experienced it as an intense jealousy of girls... like a sort of "vagina envy." I envied them for not having to have their voices change. I envied them for not having to put up with body hair. I envied them for being able to wear pretty body-hugging clothes. I envied them so much for being able to be cute and sweet socially and being rewarded for it, rather than being forced to be masculine. I envied them for their genitals, and wished that I could have them. Again, I didn't experience these things as "I am really a girl," I internalized them as "I wish I was a girl."

Others feel the exact same thing. They envy girls, and want what they have. The only difference at all is that some experience this feeling as "I AM a girl," where others experience it like I did, where it's "I wish I was a girl."

Ultimately it's no different. We all describe the feeling exactly the same, so I think it's fair to say that they are the same. The only difference is perspective, and how our unique minds process and react to these feelings. That envy that I felt, that feeling that what I was experiencing was wrong and that what the girls were experiencing would be what's right, that was my mind telling me that I really was a girl. I just didn't recognize it at the time, and didn't realize it until later in life, while others recognized it is their minds telling them that they were really girls much younger.
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helen2010

I wish I knew the answer.  I am non-binary and I am still seeking to understand and to express my gender in the most powerful and authentic way possible.
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xponentialshift

At first I was going to say that I felt almost the exact same as Valleyrie growing up, then I read what Carrie Liz posted and that fits perfectly too: it really is the same just a matter of perspective.

Personally I had all the common puberty dysphoria triggers without really knowing why. I didn't like my hair getting cut short (other than the low maintenance), I hated when my voice changed when I was almost 16. I hated all the other things too that are probably best left untriggered.
What Valleyrie mentioned about the gender marker while filling out forms... I always eventually marked M, but it would take a lot of hesitation and I never realized that until she mentioned it.

Now my perspective on all of those feelings wasn't that "I was a girl", nor was it really "I wish I were a girl". At the time I didn't know I could do anything about the feelings so my perspective was threefold: I was a girl in my past life. I would have been a girl this life if I had had the choice. I will be a girl in my next life. (And somehow I believed I would remember all the thoughts and ideas I had for living as a girl once I got to my next life even though I don't remember my past life now... Naïve child that I was... And probably still am)

My brain is so rational I wish I had had the knowledge I have now back then. I could have transitioned so easily back in highschool both mentally and socially because it was such a great environment (in fact one student in my highschool yoga class began her transition to female just as I was graduating)

Edit: forgot to answer the question...

Now, I don't try to think about my true gender because it doesn't really matter. Nothing can ever be perfect because everything is always changing. As long as I am moving towards the goal of who I want to be, then I am happy. Right now I plan to go the full binary switch as far as life will let me, but that may change as I begin to experience what the other options available are. So in conclusion I don't feel like I know what my true gender is, just in which direction I want to progress. And I am very glad that I have been made aware of this compass  that I now use to navigate the vast gender plane (while so many other people never look any other direction from which they first opened their eyes to)
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Northern Jane

As a young child, my sense of gender came from "where I fit" - all my playmates were girls, I played girl's games, disliked boys (who were loud and rough), and I got along well with other girls so I naturally assumed I was one. My physical state didn't matter - it was irrelevant - and I would correct adults who mis-gendered me. I can't say I had a sense of my own gender as something on its own but more in the societal sense.

It wasn't until age 8 that I realized anything was amiss and at the first hint of puberty it became a crisis and I rebelled against anything and anyone that tried to push me in the male direction, even to the point of self-mutilation. I felt I should have been a girl and wasn't about to accept any degree of "male-ness".
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Serenahikaru

I didn't realize my dysphoria until I was about 12, though even before then I loved pretending to be a girl and wearing my sister's clothes. I would of said something sooner if I knew changing gender was possible.
"There'll come a day where you realize you were so afraid of what others thought, you never got to live the life you wanted."
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Asche

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 15, 2014, 12:03:11 AM
As a kid, I was very much of the "well, everyone calls me a boy, and I have boy parts, so therefore I must be a boy" frame of mind.

When I started experiencing dysphoria as a teenager, I didn't experience it as "I am a girl," I experienced it as an intense jealousy of girls... like a sort of "vagina envy." I envied them for not having to have their voices change. I envied them for not having to put up with body hair. I envied them for being able to wear pretty body-hugging clothes. I envied them so much for being able to be cute and sweet socially and being rewarded for it, rather than being forced to be masculine. I envied them for their genitals, and wished that I could have them. Again, I didn't experience these things as "I am really a girl," I internalized them as "I wish I was a girl."

Others feel the exact same thing. They envy girls, and want what they have. The only difference at all is that some experience this feeling as "I AM a girl," where others experience it like I did, where it's "I wish I was a girl."
I think this describes me, too.  Except that I felt threatened by this feeling.  I remember reading stories where a boy got turned into a girl (remember what happens to Tip in The Marvelous Land of OZ?) and it always creeped me out.

I think at some level I always wished I'd been a girl, but repressed it.

For one thing, I grew up (as I put it) "in the Ante-Bellum South", where boys were expected to be rough and tough and free of any taint of girl-ness, and those who weren't (e.g., me) were punching bags and tackling dummies for those who were (with the approval of the adult world.)  It was bad enough that I wasn't sufficiently masculine; if I'd articulated wanting to be a girl, I'm not sure I would have survived.  As it was, I spent most of my childhood thinking about suicide.

For another, I didn't have any sisters when I was young (my only sister was born when I was nine), so I couldn't, say, try wearing my sister's clothes or play with girl toys or have an older sister dress me up, the way some here did.  The only contact I had with girls was with two cousins who thought we (my brothers and me) were too weird to be in the same room with.  Girls might as well have been martians when I was growing up.

But I did envy girls being able to wear pretty clothes and be cute, and being treated gently and (as I saw it) being loved for who they were, rather than having rough approval doled out by eyedropper but only if you were a winner.[1]  And I've never liked my body, even before male-pattern fat and baldness, so even when I have to look in a mirror, I manage to not actually see myself.  (And yes, I know that being a girl -- or a woman -- is not all cookies and cream.  But that's in my head, not my heart.)

[1] IMHO, Glory is a poor substitute for love.
"...  I think I'm great just the way I am, and so are you." -- Jazz Jennings



CPTSD
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Lonicera

(My original post was still open in my one of my laptop's word documents so I hope people don't mind me re-adding it. I apologise for the length and relative uselessness, I ended up writing something for the sake of my own clarity as well as to try to answer questions as thoroughly as they apply to me.)

At present, the best personal explanation of how I feel is that when I look internally and ask "What am I?" there is an instantaneous and strong insistence that I'm a woman. If I ask "Am I meant to be male?" there is an instinctual rejection of it and a lot of distress associated with it. The responses feel certain and integral to the person I am, they feel deeply rooted somewhere in my mind. Why is there such certainty that I belong to the binary and has it always been that way? I don't know the answers to that and I expect I'll never know. Any answer I do give is susceptible to bias and imposing a narrative on past events to suit the present.

Details about personal experience of me feeling 'certain' if anyone would like them:

What I think I know is that during my early childhood I seem to have assumed I would be a girl/woman in the future. I didn't really understand gender or biology but I'd automatically be female in any roleplaying games irrespective of whether that was acting as a monarch, a doctor, a parent, a mage, etc. Any attraction to dolls, behaviours, colours, etc seems to be because I simply internalised what I thought I should/would be. I just wanted to match other girls. It's obvious I still retain some of that socialisation given my predilections, habits, body language, issues, attitudes, etc.

A malaise began to permeate everything when I did become aware of the way society divides people into the restrictive binary based on sex designation. This intensified into strong attacks of distress when I also began to truly appreciate that my biology was destined to make me an adult male thus, for society, a man. I hated my body and it just got worse. It deeply confused and shocked me that I didn't have the same genitals as my mother.

During a distress attack, I remember fearfully telling my grandmother/guardian I needed to be a girl. This was at age eight and my internal concept of gender seems to have become ingrained by that point. I knew it was taboo to say it to some degree but my grandmother replied that my 'auntie wanted to be a cat.' I felt despondent but trusted her.

Obviously, it never did go away. It just got more potent. When I believed in God (prior to age 11ish), I prayed to wake up a girl or begged for the desire to go away. Around that point, I got regular internet access and instantly searched for anything related to feeling the need to be female. I don't remember what I found but I know I learned what 'gender dysphoria' was and that it described my feelings accurately.

Unfortunately, I was too terrified to say anything by that point because I was keenly aware of how gender and sex are policed. As with a lot of other people, puberty ruined me mentally since the physical changes were repugnant to me, they were taking me in a direction that felt fundamentally wrong. I believe a psychiatrist described it to me as 'a loss cognition' but I haven't been able to find information on exactly what that means. I presume it relates to some sort of grief.

Throughout my teen years I tried every possible explanation, no matter how mutually contradictory or inapplicable they seemed, to reject the certainty of my 'internal' gender and sex dysphoria. All of them never really convinced me and quickly fell before facts that proved them wrong.

My gender expression has varied, and will no doubt continue to vary, but my utter internal certainty that I should be female has proven impervious to everything I've desperately applied to deny it. Could it ever waver? Maybe since anything is possible but until now it has remained as steadfast as gravity in the face of many obstacles and attacks.
"In the middle of the journey of our life, I came to myself in a dark wood, where the straight way was lost. It is a hard thing to speak of, how wild, harsh and impenetrable that wood was, so that thinking of it recreates the fear. It is scarcely less bitter than death: but, in order to tell of the good that I found there, I must tell of the other things I saw there." - Dante Alighieri
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Bronwethiel

I have really enjoyed this post.  So many of the questions that I have lived with and had trouble coming to terms with are addressed by the excellent responses I have read here. 

I, as well, have always been not quite the standard definition of a boy.  I knew I was one.  Everyone said so and any activity I pursued that might indicate otherwise, was quickly discouraged.  Actually, when you're very young, assuming the role of a boy isn't all that bad and I had a number of good experiences that will always be treasured.  Along with that though went the shame over feelings you kept locked away.  That's how I remember many things from my youth, embarrassed and with shame.  I liked being a boy a lot but I had such strong feelings about being something else.  What was I?  As I grew older the shame only increased. 
It's terrible that someone has to deal with being labelled as one thing or the other.   I would have been a much happier person if I didn't have to fight with the choices that were pushed on me. 

I found that I liked being with females way more than males and to this day do not have any male friends.  I have finally started to realize many things about me that are not so binary.  I feel that I too, am seeking to discover the real me.  I know that person is not the accepted definition of a male.  I know I want to be someone much more feminine than I appear right now.  So do I know my gender?  I would think I never have.  I live in a body that doesn't allow people to treat me the way I want to be treated.  So I guess, I'm not this gender.  People don't see me as I feel, so I guess I'm not that gender.

I do know that being so unsure of something that society puts so much importance on, is very difficult.

I also know that I dislike seeing myself as I am and take every opportunity to change my appearance.   I have read the terms and definitions of this site and I don't think I like what that makes me by your definition.  Inside, I have come to accept that I am as female as I can get.  I am just trying to get to that place where I'm happy.  I haven't started hormones and am still struggling with that decision.  It's a real game changer for someone who has established ties with family etc. over this many years.

I may be getting away from the original topic so I'll stop. 

Thanks,

Faith
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Jess42

I guess I could be more nonbinary than anything and I always felt my gender was trans before I even knew what transgender was. Something didn't ever seem quite right since my first memories. Sort of mixed up, mushed up aspects of both genders and both kind of set in and came in naturally. Not really boy, not really girl but sometimes boy and most times thinking like a girl. ??? Does that rally make any sense to anyone but me?
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Miharu Barbie

What is it to feel my gender?  I am one of those odd individuals who knew that there was a mix-up long before I knew what gender even meant.  I tried to talk with my Mexican/Catholic mother about it when I was about 4 or 5 years old; she responded with horror and strict instructions to never say such a thing again.  (My brother tormented me for many years after that; our relationship never recovered.)

How did I know?  It's a matter of identification.  Human beings are social creatures and every helpless infant immediately seeks out a sense of identification, that is, "Where do I fit in?"  There's safety and comfort in "fitting in".  First we fit in with our family, then our community, friends, school mates, racial identification, socio-economic identification, etc.  Somewhere in all of that early fitting in, most of us identify with mom, dad, uncle, aunt, brother, sister, other little boys, other little girls. 

What can I say?  I identified with mom, with sister, with other little girls; I always did; I always will.

I just knew.

I didn't understand why others didn't understand.  It made no sense to me.  For me the identification with other girls was way too strong to ignore, hide, suppress, or tuck away.  I became very careful about who I told, but I had a small group of girlfriends when I was 13 that I played dress up with.  They knew about me.  I joined the US Army at 17 years of age, but they totally rejected me and nearly murdered because I could not hide who I am.  I simply could not not talk about it.  As a young adult, pre-transition, I told every girlfriend I've ever had about my gender mishap before I would agree to date them.  All my closest friends knew about me.  I just couldn't suppress it.

And the only way I can describe the sensation that drove me to "know my gender" is that I identify as a girl; I "feel" that I'm exactly the same as any other girl, always have been, always will be.

I hope that answers your question.
FEAR IS NOT THE BOSS OF ME!!!


HRT:                         June 1998
Full Time For Good:     November 1998
Never Looking Back:  Now!
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helen2010

Quote from: Jess42 on July 16, 2014, 06:07:43 PM
I guess I could be more nonbinary than anything and I always felt my gender was trans before I even knew what transgender was. Something didn't ever seem quite right since my first memories. Sort of mixed up, mushed up aspects of both genders and both kind of set in and came in naturally. Not really boy, not really girl but sometimes boy and most times thinking like a girl. ??? Does that rally make any sense to anyone but me?

Jess

It makes sense as it does sound a lot like me.

Aisla
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Jera

Forgive me if any of this is unclear, but I am writing this in part to better process my answer for myself. I've "known" this about myself for as long as I can remember, even if I've not always been able to accept it. I don't know if my experience is similar to people who have actually transitioned, so maybe you wouldn't actually call me trans, or if this is in any way what you might call a "typical" experience for anyone in this community. But I'm going to write a few memories, as well as what I felt during them, and hopefully this can be some help for you, too.

My earliest memory about any sense of dysphoria was at age four, when my family was taking me to church one sunday. I would look around at the outfits the girls got to wear with huge feelings of envy. They were pretty, and I admired the way it made the girls look. I also remember intense jealousy, because I was not allowed to express myself by wearing a dress like that, being stuck in "stupid boy clothes". These were thoughts only at this point, because I also already clearly knew that these were Bad Things to talk about, so I'm sure I had at least mentioned something similar to my parents before this, though I don't remember how early that actually was.

At about eight or nine I was first exposed to romantic movies or tv shows, or at least began to pay attention to them when they were on. Every single time, I was almost spellbound by the experience the woman received in these stories, and I knew rather clearly that it was an experience I desired. I should note that at this time, I wasn't really focused on the "man" or the "woman" per se, but more on the roles they were playing in the relationship. I knew that the way she acts, the way she is treated, is something that would bring me joy for myself. At the same time, trying to imagine myself in the male role, I just couldn't see myself acting in that way, nor getting nearly as much pleasure from his role. I never did act on any of this though.

Puberty was the biggest challenge I have faced in my life. I was acutely aware around age 11 that the girls were beginning to change. I experienced the full spectrum of jealousy and anger that I wasn't getting breasts or their shape. I knew for the first time that I really wanted that to be my body, too, and first began to ask myself why I couldn't just accept that girls were different than me. Why can't I just be happy being a guy, since that's what my body is, what family/friends/people tell me I am? I've never been able to answer this question to this day.

When I was twelve, my beard began to grow. At first, I was genuinely proud of myself. My first time shaving, I remember thinking, "Finally, I can be more like Dad." This joy lasted all of a week (the second time I needed to shave). I quickly began to resent shaving. Even though it's just hair, it was the first time it really became "real" to me how different I was from what I wanted. I resigned myself to it, thankful at least that my beard doesn't grow as fast as other guy's, nor as full, so I don't have to shave every day if I don't want to.

There were many nights throughout the rest of my teenage years that I actually cried myself to sleep, or cried through the night without sleeping at all, feeling like my body was "slipping away from me." Every passing month, every passing year, made it more clear, more definitive, just how NOT female I am supposed to be, even though I was so sure it was what I always wanted. By turns I would beg and plead with God, demanding he fix me, or answers for why I was made this way. Then I'd spend a while accusing myself of idiocy and insanity, not understanding why the hell this felt so important to me. Back and forth for years.

By about eighteen, I was finally able to suppress those emotions enough that they wouldn't cripple me as I tried to function during my life. In the ten years since, I've been able to ignore it, mostly, though I suffer from what my therapists have called "chronic disthymia". They've never found the source, though I suspect this is the reason. But it's been so ingrained into me that We Don't Talk About That by my family when I was a kid, that this text is the first time I've ever communicated it to anyone.
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Jera

Wow, that turned out way longer than I thought it would. Sorry about that!

It's not a simple question, so it doesn't have a simple answer for me. But hopefully that can give you a sense of how it looks/feels to me.
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helen2010

Jera

Your post is very clear and indeed very similar to that experienced by many on Susans.  My GD started very early, much like yours.  But whereas I knew that I wasn't like the other guys and identified with and envied much of the female experience I sensed that this wasn't really where I was either.  The result.  Massive investment in learning how to be a successful alpha male, and I certainly 'succeeded'.  A growing sense that I was a fraud and an increasing obsession with cross dressing and potential transition.  I didn't know if I was a freak, psychologically damaged or 'just' had some weird kink or fetish.  It really wasn't until I met a real gender therapist and commenced low dose hrt, that I began to understand and to accept my trans* nature.  Over time my understanding has been further refined and I now accept that I am non binary and am free to better express my identity and to develop a narrative that works best for me and for the life that I wish to experience.

Safe travels

Aisla
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Sarah84

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 15, 2014, 12:03:11 AM


As a kid, I was very much of the "well, everyone calls me a boy, and I have boy parts, so therefore I must be a boy" frame of mind.

When I started experiencing dysphoria as a teenager, I didn't experience it as "I am a girl," I experienced it as an intense jealousy of girls... like a sort of "vagina envy." I envied them for not having to have their voices change. I envied them for not having to put up with body hair. I envied them for being able to wear pretty body-hugging clothes. I envied them so much for being able to be cute and sweet socially and being rewarded for it, rather than being forced to be masculine. I envied them for their genitals, and wished that I could have them. Again, I didn't experience these things as "I am really a girl," I internalized them as "I wish I was a girl."


I can relate to what Carrie wrote. I wouldn't express it better. It is the way how I was feeling since my teenager years and it was slowly increasing.
My real name is Monika :)
HRT: 11.11.2014
SRS: 5.11.2015 with Chettawut
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suzifrommd

Wow. I found the answers to this thread really affirming.

The bottom line is that very few of us just "knew" our gender. It generally was a puzzle of feelings we realized that other people didn't share: Belonging with the opposite sex, jealousy of clothing/presentation, concern about changing body and realizing that our bodies were going in the wrong direction, etc.

It makes me feel like I'm not so strange, and that my experience is not so different from what other folk felt.

Thank you all for your responses.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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