I don't know why I'm writing this at such a late hour, but I feel like I need to get this off of my chest.

I had a meeting today with my therapist, and at the time it seemed fairly unproductive.  He's actually not a great therapist, despite being a highly respected therapist within the local transgender community...but I digress.  I was talking about some fairly common relationship woes (and this nasty, sarcastic persona I tend to use) when me said "Sure, I can see why you'd put up that wall, after everything you've been through, the bullying and dysphoria and abuse-it makes sense".  I guess this just flew over my head at the time, but I've been thinking about this all day, and trying to wrap my mind all of this.

My folks never showed me any affection outside material objects, and made a lot of choices "for my own good" that cost me dearly, when I began to have trouble as a child (which began exactly around the same time I stopped dressing up as a girl, which was something they thoroughly ignored.  I can't remember a single tender, caring moment.  Part of me is still certain this is my fault-and I'm not the type to believe something that isn't true.  I struggled with mental health issues for a while, and still do occasionally-and when I'm at my worst, I say very terrible things.  Just the other day, something happened that I think is perfectly illustrates how messed up all of this is-I mentioned to my mother that I was feeling sick (I still try to get sympathy and affection from time to time from her), and she told me it was just in my head.  I don't know-is that sort of absence, and refusal to validate anything I do or say abusive?  And even then, is it justified?  I simply don't know. 

How can someone know if they've suffered this sort of abuse, when they've been nasty and hurtful to others?  What is and isn't your own fault?               ...I think I need more therapy.

Quote
How can someone know if they've suffered this sort of abuse, when they've been nasty and hurtful to others?  What is and isn't your own fault?               ...I think I need more therapy.

Your actions are your own and a choice you made. What was done to you isn't. Your actions are your fault, others actions are their fault. What trauma you went through may help explain why you made a choice, but it was still a choice.

knowing the reason why you act like you do some times, can make it easier for you to deal with it and correct your own behavior. being angry with your parents for a good reason might make it easier to stop getting nasty with people for no good reason. like lord kat said, you own actions and words are you own responsibility. but the reasons why you feel like that is your only choice can be other people's words or actions. and those aren't your fault. if your parents chose to not give you the love and validation that you need, they're responsible for a whole lot of your emotional pain, even if they can't be held responsible for your actions.

I echo the sentiments that you are responsible for your own actions and not those done to you.

In my expierence the most damaging aspects of my relationship with my parents isn't really the actions done to me (which were bad enough) but, the things not done for me. I am not even sure exactly how family relationships should work because, what I lived had few working parts to it.

A nasty sarcastic attitude seems to be a pretty reasonable coping strategy. It might not be the best adjusted way to be, but it is understandable. Knowing why you might do something may well be helpful with preventing that attitude from hurting others.

I would consider a sustained lack of validation and sustained lack of emotional engagement to be neglect. I would consider neglect to be a form of abuse. I considered myself neglected quite a bit from my parents, I tend to avoid using the word abuse but I consider it abuse in my own situation. Neglect has been far more damaging to me than the other problems I endured.

I can sympathize with your situation, I can't really say I ever loved my parents and how they felt about me is something I always never could put my finger on.

Agreed on the idea that your own actions are your own responsibility, but I'm not sure it's quite that simple.  We don't generally exist in a form where we by default compartmentalize what happens to us separately from what we do to others.  That is, what people have done to me in the past - good and bad - will affect how I act in the future.  If a dog is abused by its owner, it'll bite a child that tries to pet it.  If I have been abused by my parents, I'll treat other people in a manner tainted by that abuse.

Does prior abuse absolve us of any responsibility for our actions?  No.  But does it provide mitigating circumstances?  Absolutely.

A more accurate way of describing this would perhaps not be something as cut and dried as "your actions are your own responsibility," but, "your actions are ultimately your own responsibility."  The former incorrectly and unfairly implies that there is no influence on your prior experiences on your current actions and behaviors, and that you have absolute control over how you act.  The latter acknowledges that while you generally do have control over how you act and must take responsibility for how you act, those actions are shaped by many complex and diverse prior influences, some good, some bad.  And that's where therapy comes in; making us understand that we're the ones with our fingers on the trigger, and making us realize that while we might like to blame everything on others (I do all the time!), there's got to be a reasonable point at which the destructive cycle of cause and effect has to be broken and the past is left in the past.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on July 16, 2014, 03:12:00 AM
How can someone know if they've suffered this sort of abuse, when they've been nasty and hurtful to others?  What is and isn't your own fault?

AP26, it doesn't matter whether you've suffered abuse.

What matters is whether it FELT abusive to you. If you FEEL like you were abused or not treated well, it is unimportant whether an impartial observer (or a dozen posters at Susan's Place) thinks you were abused.

It is your experience that matters.

Does that make sense?

As for what is/isn't your fault, is it really necessary to fix blame? If you had a rough childhood, that's what you need to move on from, right? Moving on isn't any easier or harder or even different if it was your fault vs. someone else's, is it? What's important IMO is asking what adult you now needs to do to make the life you want to have.

I've struggled with some of the same issues. My childhood was rough. I was a difficult kid in some ways - I talked back to my parents, lost my temper, etc. Was that my choice or was I not given other opportunities to communicate? It's really not important. I need figure out how to make my life work now.

This is all just my opinion, but I hope it helps.

Quote from: Hikari on July 16, 2014, 05:45:36 AM
I would consider a sustained lack of validation and sustained lack of emotional engagement to be neglect. I would consider neglect to be a form of abuse. I considered myself neglected quite a bit from my parents, I tend to avoid using the word abuse but I consider it abuse in my own situation. Neglect has been far more damaging to me than the other problems I endured.

This is abuse, pure and simple.  When you are a small child you NEED a series of affirming emotional messages from your parents and failure to receive them is ABUSE.  I, myself, am working through issues like these with a good therapist and it is deep water to tread indeed.

Quote from: Brenda E on July 16, 2014, 07:22:56 AM
Does prior abuse absolve us of any responsibility for our actions?  No.  But does it provide mitigating circumstances?  Absolutely.

This is also more tangled than it seems.  A very young child has no basis for coming up with a rational, adult, way of handling neglect/abuse from his/her parents.  This will set up a very negative way of handling things and saying the child is responsible for choosing to handle things this way is heaping more blame where it does not fit.  One hallmark of neglect/abuse is that the victim seems to feel deep inside themselves they are responsible for what was done to them.  BUNK!!

Androgynouspainter,

You are seeing a gender therapist for good and valid reasons.  However, his expertise does not fit some of your problems and these need also to be specifically addressed.  Dealing with neglect issues from early childhood may require the services of a more generaly psychological therapist.  One can get self help books like "Forgiving our Parents, Forgiving Ourselves" by Stoop or the "Emotionally Absent Mother - a Guide to Self-Healing and Getting the Love You Missed" by Cori can help, but you need someone in real life to discuss what you find and help you work through it.  Maybe once you open the door the gender therapist can help you.

To echo what other have said: You are NOT responsible for what others have done to you.

Warning: Even going through a seemingly successful transiton is NOT going to erase these deep hurts from the past.  To be happy and be able to like yourself you need to press on and find healing from what has happened to you.  This is NOT easy.  I am 61 and just recently starting sorting through the mess from my childhood - is is going to be a long road.

Hang in there - and try to find better help.


Erin