Hello everyone,

I'm in a bit of a brain twisting not actually choice but kind of situation... Or something like that.

I'm up for a breast reduction surgery (I'm 26 years btw), it's going to be sometime in october this year. Since I live in a country with partly free health care I don't have to pay for it. It's been a process to get it, and I started out before I realized that I'm actually transgender. I've gotten the breast reduction only because of back problems and stuff like that (currently size 70G/32F - yey...)

In april this year, when I was last to see the surgeon, we discussed what size I wanted after the surgery. Even though I hadn't come out to myself then, I still asked them to remove all of it. Problem is, they can't. Apparently. Well, that is to say, removing the breasts all together is considered amputation and isn't allowed (or even legal?).

Well, at the time I thought that I would indeed be quite happy with the result if they did as I wanted and removed as much as they could possibly remove (or was allowed to). But now?

You see where I'm going with this "kind of choice, but not really"?

I could say no to my breast reduction surgery and try and get gender therapy, and in some years if I was lucky maby get a "proper" top surgery. Key words beeing lucky, maybe, in some years...

Besides the back pain, shortness of breath and so on, my bodydysphoria and mental pain is just getting worse with time. It's even more painfull now when I'm soure of what it is that's making me fall into depressions, self hate and a bunch of other nasty stuff for as long as I can remember. (That I'm transgender and not generally crazy, bipolar or something else)



So, now I'm unsure of what to do. Or truthfully, maybe not. I know I must do something, I can't go on like I have so far (yes, yes very dramatic). But I'm worrying over the surgery. How much will they leave on me, will I feel any better (well, of coure an 32B is better than 32G, obviously, but it's still a far cry from what I really want.) Will I be able to get another "proper" top surgery in the future, or is this kind of surgery something you only can do to your body once? (I'm thinking about gender therapy after the surgery, and later on a surgery to remove the rest of the chest if I find it necessary).


I'm really hoping that I will be able to come to terms with passing as undefined, kind of "is that a boy or a girl"-person. I'm unfortunatly a really feminine looking person even without my excessive chest, so passing for male could be difficult either way. As it is now I can't really bind, can't wear normal t-shirts or shirts that is'nt girls fit (and when they are for girls I still have to get some size larger for it to not strain across the chest). So, being able to bind convicingly and wear guys chlothes would be an great improvment for me. But still, it's really really frustrating to get a surgery, go through with all the pain and inconvinience and not get the result I want (and could) get just because it is wieved as amputation..



Um, well. Thats a rant for sure.
Very thankful if anyone has the energy to read through it all, and even more so if someone answers.
Not really soure what I want anyone to say, I just need some kind of feedback or discussion I guess.
A bit much to juggle in my own mind at the moment, and I don't have anyone to talk to.

With love to all,
Mio

ps: sorry for spelling, bad grammar and so on, english isn't my native language.

See if they'll reduce it to like an A cup, maybe? That's about as small as breasts come without being outright removed.
I've  heard of guys having reductions before proper top surgery, though, so I'd definitely go as small as you can for now. It's a lot easier to bind a B cup than a G, that's for sure.

There may be only so far they can reduce it using an actual reduction. I know of people who have gotten "reductions" and they just take everything. I mean I don't believe they weigh it. But might nto really be possible in your case (or what you want, not sure). Anyway, just see what you'd get. If you want smaller than they feel is "aesthetic", you can always claim to like running or rock climbing or whatever.

I can't imagine binding a G cup, so it's going to make life a lot easier for sure.

--Jay

I think it depends on the surgeon on how much they remove. If they are a stick in the mud then they won't make you completely flat because "girls have boobs".

Quote from: Alexthecat on July 18, 2014, 06:59:03 PM
I think it depends on the surgeon on how much they remove. If they are a stick in the mud then they won't make you completely flat because "girls have boobs".

I'm gathering though there are limitations on a breast reduction as a technique. It's not a double incision, so that there is probably a limit to how flat someone can be made with this.

--Jay

Hi again, thanks for your answers   

Haha, wish I could get away with claiming I'm rock climbing or running! I don't work out or move about much, so I think they'd call my bluff.

And, yeah, I'll absolutely ask my surgeon to make whatever she leaves on me as small as possible, hope she's not to much of a stick in the mud in that regard.


Well, I've managed to do a bit of research without contacting the hospital or surgeon I'm going to. So, if anyone else in Sweden would ever have the same problem (you never know) I can at least say that it seems like they do a mastectomi in more than one step anyway (if your not exceptionally small chested to begin with).

Getting a breast reduction now and starting gender identity theraphy shortly after maybe just ends up the best alternative I had. It's mandatory theraphy for at least 3 years before I could get a full mastectomi, and I think it's also 3 years before T, which seems a long time. But that also means that I have one surgery already done and time to recover, be able to get in shape and ready for the next one.

Long term planning, think I better get used to it.
Feels good to look at the coming breast reduction as the first step instead of "Oh, no, this might destroy all future chanses" and so on...

Positivitea, and tea. Yey!

Wow, three years before they'll start you on T? That's nuts!

Why 3 years? I know another guy in Sweden, and he got on T fairly soon though they definitely did not exactly hurry. And he is not anywhere near top surgery either.

Geeze, well the good news with the government paying for it is the government will pay. And the bad news, they really are slow about it.

--Jay

Quote from: HellsbellsMio on July 19, 2014, 03:57:35 PM
Hi again, thanks for your answers   

Haha, wish I could get away with claiming I'm rock climbing or running! I don't work out or move about much, so I think they'd call my bluff.

And, yeah, I'll absolutely ask my surgeon to make whatever she leaves on me as small as possible, hope she's not to much of a stick in the mud in that regard.


Well, I've managed to do a bit of research without contacting the hospital or surgeon I'm going to. So, if anyone else in Sweden would ever have the same problem (you never know) I can at least say that it seems like they do a mastectomi in more than one step anyway (if your not exceptionally small chested to begin with).

Getting a breast reduction now and starting gender identity theraphy shortly after maybe just ends up the best alternative I had. It's mandatory theraphy for at least 3 years before I could get a full mastectomi, and I think it's also 3 years before T, which seems a long time. But that also means that I have one surgery already done and time to recover, be able to get in shape and ready for the next one.

Long term planning, think I better get used to it.
Feels good to look at the coming breast reduction as the first step instead of "Oh, no, this might destroy all future chanses" and so on...

Positivitea, and tea. Yey!

You can definitely still get top surgery after breast reduction.  I think the mental approach you are going with it a good one.... see the breast reduction as a step towards top surgery.  Actually, see it as a BONUS until you can get top surgery!

Just ask for them to go as small as they can and then you can at least bind until you can get top surgery.  Jay is right that you can only go so small with a breast reduction technique.

You should know that regardless of how small they make you, you will need to have Double incision, I think it's due to some amt. of scar tissue and so on you get with top surgery. I still think it would make a big difference, esp going from G cup to something smaller, all of a sudden you are going to be able to bind effectively and look nice in your shirts.

--Jay

Oops, I mixed it up a bit, not 3 years after all. I read about this stuff at night mostly so I'm a bit slow at info intake it seems.

What I can gather from the most newly updated swedish sites, one can get T as well as top surgery from the beginning of the 2:nd year of theraphy. The 1:st year is mostly psychiatry and psychology, 2:nd year is meant a "real life test" kind of thing. Like going by new name everywhere, using mens bathroom, coming out at work/school and so on, with support from therapy along the way. I'm guessing they give you surgery and T depending on how that "real life test" works out.

Jay, maybe they adjust a bit depending on the person too, if someone already has come a long way mentally and it's obvious that T would be a great help earlier than the 2:nd year. Oh, and about double incision, my surgeon told me I'm getting a inverted T. I don't know how that will affect things, but that's what she said. And yes, being able to wear a t-shirt (and even a real proper oxford button up!) after october will be one of the best things ever!


Brett, yes I'll see it as a big bonus, definetly! Knowing I'm beeing able to get another top surgery later changes a whole lot in how I feel about it

Quote from: HellsbellsMio on July 20, 2014, 05:55:11 AM
Oops, I mixed it up a bit, not 3 years after all. I read about this stuff at night mostly so I'm a bit slow at info intake it seems.

What I can gather from the most newly updated swedish sites, one can get T as well as top surgery from the beginning of the 2:nd year of theraphy. The 1:st year is mostly psychiatry and psychology, 2:nd year is meant a "real life test" kind of thing. Like going by new name everywhere, using mens bathroom, coming out at work/school and so on, with support from therapy along the way. I'm guessing they give you surgery and T depending on how that "real life test" works out.

Jay, maybe they adjust a bit depending on the person too, if someone already has come a long way mentally and it's obvious that T would be a great help earlier than the 2:nd year. Oh, and about double incision, my surgeon told me I'm getting a inverted T. I don't know how that will affect things, but that's what she said. And yes, being able to wear a t-shirt (and even a real proper oxford button up!) after october will be one of the best things ever!


Brett, yes I'll see it as a big bonus, definetly! Knowing I'm beeing able to get another top surgery later changes a whole lot in how I feel about it

Consider taking this route:

Be upfront with your breast reduction surgeon that you plan to get top surgery in the future.  Assuming he can cut down the size of your areolas, ask them to make them as small as a male's areola.  The "standard" in the industry when doing free nipple grafts is to cut the areola down to the size of a nickel, prior to sewing it on.  I don't know exactly how it works when reducing areola size when doing a t- anchor (the breast reduction I am assuming you are getting), but they must be able to cut them down some, at least.  Ask him to pull and place the areolas into the male position.  Both of these will set you up for your top surgery.  See if he can make the incisions as close to where a top surgeon would cut into a person, so that your top surgeon can cut as close to the healed incision to give you less scars when you get the top surgery.

I know of two surgeons who said that can/would try to do the above.  Admittedly though, they were both top surgeons (who also did breast reductions), so they would have also understood more why this can be so important to someone (thus, putting in extra effort).

Brett, that's some reallt great tips, thanks! I had no idea about all that. She talked about making the areolas smaller and doing a bit of repositioning, to make the end result more natural, so it shouldn't be to difficult to do as you suggest. It seems more and more like a good idea to tell her (my surgeon) after all... But I'm still a bit concerned that she's going to think I'm too nuts to make the decision of having the reduction done at all. Next time I'm going to meet her or have any contact with the hospital is the morning of op.day. I just could not handle having it postponed or something like that, no no no. Hum, maybe if I'm putting it right, beeing a bit delicate about it.

I should be able to get her to understand that I want to make a possible future surgery easier without storming in as a ruffeld, twitching nerv wreck ranting about beeing trans, right?  I'm usually a quite composed person, but in this specific case I don't really now what reactions I have to expect from myself.

Quote from: HellsbellsMio on July 20, 2014, 03:53:48 PM
Brett, that's some reallt great tips, thanks! I had no idea about all that. She talked about making the areolas smaller and doing a bit of repositioning, to make the end result more natural, so it shouldn't be to difficult to do as you suggest. It seems more and more like a good idea to tell her (my surgeon) after all... But I'm still a bit concerned that she's going to think I'm too nuts to make the decision of having the reduction done at all. Next time I'm going to meet her or have any contact with the hospital is the morning of op.day. I just could not handle having it postponed or something like that, no no no. Hum, maybe if I'm putting it right, beeing a bit delicate about it.

I should be able to get her to understand that I want to make a possible future surgery easier without storming in as a ruffeld, twitching nerv wreck ranting about beeing trans, right?  I'm usually a quite composed person, but in this specific case I don't really now what reactions I have to expect from myself.

I don't know why she would have a hard time understanding why a person who wants no female breasts, wouldn't want to get some free smaller breasts!  It is just logical. 

I wouldn't worry about her thinking you too nuts to have a breast reduction.  I don't believe there is a requirement on sanity to get a breast reduction, just for top surgery!  I say unless you think she is not a nice person, take a risk and let her see your vulnerability and emotional pain....her empathy will kick in and she will do what she can.  Do what feels right.  Go with your gut on if she will be empathetic or not. 

Actually my understanding is T-anchor and reduction are a bit similar (though with t-anchor you have a double incision). Yes they can reduce the size of the areolas (not sure re: nipples), but that's usually part of a reduction, since if you wouldn't get that done they would be way too big for the size of the chest. The idea of t-anchor is to retrain sensation, not always sure it does this. You will definitely be able to have double incision but nto sure if it will still be possible to do t-anchor, but I don't think it's anything you should worry about.

Does sound like actually what happened with me, I am in the US but I still ended up having therapy for a year, it was my own idea though and not imposed on me.

--Jay

Brett, you're probably right. I tend to imagine the worst case scenario when I feel out of control and vulnerable. It really helps to calm me down to hear (or read) a more level headed perspective, thank you!

You as well Jay, thank you! Oh, and I didn't know T-anchor had something to do with retracing sensation, good to know.
Isn't some therapy mandatory for getting T and surgery in the US? Anyways, I think therapy before any given big life changing decision more often than not is a good thing. Especially in cases where you maybe can't talk to family or friends, it's so easy to just get stuck in thought patterns that are hard to break on your own. I hope your year of therapy was helpful to you!

In the U.S. we have some informed consent clinics that do bloodwork and just give you the hormones. And some surgeons don't require a letter, like Rockmore.
But I agree that therapy is helpful 99% of the time before a decision this big.