We just hung up after talking and crying for 2 hours. I need somewhere to just get my thoughts out. I've stumbled upon this forum a few times in the past and have always been impressed and happy looking at the progress and "would I pass" pictures.
(In this text I'll refer to my boyfriend as "he" even though I would be fine with "she"... everything is just so confusing now. I don't want to hurt him by using "he" but...)

My boyfriend and I are 22 and have been together for 4 years now. In the beginning it was a bit rough but the last years have been fantastic according to me, except that I'm often too tired to hang out (hard study + ADHD). We live 1 hour apart, hang out on weekends, we're both nerds and kind of enjoy solitude.

We're quite cuddly but have never had penetration sex. The few times we've tried, he's been "too shy". In the beginning I was a bit bummed but I then realised it was a lot about expectations - I now identify as demisexual (I get sexual desire but don't need to share it with anyone). I wouldn't say no to it, but it's absolutely not important to me.

My friends have commented that he looks a bit feminine, and I agree, I know some have thought that he's homosexual. I on the other side look a bit manly with some facial hair, smallest breasts ever, and people think I'm lesbian. I don't identify as bi (it's a bit hard to recognise as demisexual) but I do generally find women more attractive than men.

So on Sunday he suddenly stopped answering phone calls and didn't answer chat messages. I got really concerned and he finally called tonight, crying. He told me he is transsexual, that he has felt like that since childhood and tried to "forget about it", but on Sunday it just all hit him.

I don't know what to say... the only thing I am scared of is to lose him. I'm so happy with what we have right now, I love him to bits. I want to live with him and have a family with him. It felt like those 2 hours of talking have changed nothing about us, yet everything is so different... Of course, in the beginning I felt really tricked - was all that love just fake? But still, I want to try. Right now, it just depends on him...

Naturally he is really confused now. He doesn't want to lose me, but doesn't know if we can continue our relationship, if it feels right. He said that obviously there is something real because he likes cuddling with me. Also I'm afraid he has some "expectation" that I won't accept it and therefore we have to end it. He's going to a counselor next week. I understand that this will be a long and tough process for him. I want to support him and hope that he can find self-acceptance and what he truly wants.

I love him, I love her, I love my special lovedarling.
I'm just so afraid I won't be what he truly wants... 

Aww honey, my heart goes out to you... it is all so confusing in the beginning. The only advice I can give you is try try try to talk it out. Let your partner know how you are feeling. Sometimes, rather than having a conversation, I find it's easier to write out how I'm feeling, that way interjections and stuff won't blur my line of thought. Maybe if your partner knows how you are feeling they will try to express their feelings better. I know your worries though.. and it breaks my heart to hear that you're going through this... I was so scared at first when my SO came out to me. These thoughts kept going through my head.. 'omg ppl have been telling me all these years that 'he' is gay, maybe he's just always been a woman who wants the d!' or 'omg we've never really been sexual, perhaps because my body is not the body they desire...' It was a scary to think of those things, I was so scared to receive an answer I didn't want. Fortunately in my situation, my fears were just in my head. I still need reassuring every now and again, but I am incredibly secure in our relationship. My girlfriend is an amazing person and loyal to the core. I love her so much. I hope you get the same outcome. Feel free to reach out and chat if you ever need an open ear or a shoulder to cry on. I'd be more than happy to listen. I really wish the two of you the best of luck, please keep us updated.

I think she's lucky to have you. I don't really have any real local support at the moment. I know it would mean a lot to me to have someone to help me go through this in person. So far I've only met one person like me and but I suck at making friends and as such I haven't gotten a lot of help from her yet.

Thanks for your support. We decided to talk again tomorrow. Hopefully she will feel better by then. I'm reading about transsexualism to learn more.

Right now I don't feel much of a reaction. Mostly, "so what? I'd proudly call her my girlfriend if anyone asks!!" - but of course, how would I know that now? And I try to not think about that maybe, she doesn't really want to be with me. I keep my hopes up that once the storm has settled down a bit, she will still want to have a relationship with me.

Edit: Oh, I forgot. I'm still allowed to call her darling and send "love spam" (my favorite time-waster - various ways of showing affection in chat or mail). She said she might even need love spam right now. I'm not going to overdo it, but I sent a love spam a few minutes ago. It's a good sign, I believe.

Welcome.

I might have missed my girl's start of transition (met her about 6 months in transition) but she was afraid that if I learned certain things about her and her past I might leave her.

Give her the space she needs but make sure she knows you love her.

Also talk and voice your concerns. If she doesn't know what's bothering you she can't help you.

aawwwwwwww 

If you both like each other you can go on together, there will be obstacles  but   I suppose love will win...

I feel like the most terrible person in the world.

We've had some light chat messages during the day. Jokes and fun links. When I came home after the gym I tried to call her for about an hour. No response. After I send a text with just a "?" she calls me. We talk a bit about the day. I call her darling. I always do that. Haven't used real names for years. I wasn't sure whether to tell her, but I nevertheless said that during the day, I sometimes am so happy because I like her so much, and sometimes feel so terrible. Overall she doesn't say much. Not even fillers. Complete silence. I ask if she wants to keep talking. "No, or, I don't know." After an eternity of silence, I hung up. I just didn't know what to do.

I know I should be there. I should be a support. I know she's not the best at discussing feelings and stuff and just telling me yesterday was a big step. But I don't know how I can be supportive when it feels like I've lost the love of my life, the one I want to share my future with. It's as if everything is gone from one day to the next. I know it's not true - otherwise she wouldn't have come out to me. And with all the feelings and stuff going on I know I can't expect much declaration of love and maybe hopefully, it will come. But it's so hard...

I don't know what to tell her about my feelings. I want to tell her that I love her, because she needs love, but I don't want to put any pressure on her. How can I do that?

I also told her that I looked at a photograph of us eating 4th anniversary pizza, and how it's hard to look at, knowing that it's not the true her. She said I don't need to think that way. What does that mean?

I texted "Sorry" and she responded "Yeah, so much feelings". I don't know if I should ask whether we should talk tomorrow too. As said, I don't want to put pressure. But I don't want her to be alone...

Maybe I just think to much, but... I don't know what else to do.

QuoteI also told her that I looked at a photograph of us eating 4th anniversary pizza, and how it's hard to look at, knowing that it's not the true her. She said I don't need to think that way. What does that mean?

This one I may have some idea. Her response makes sense to me. If you were her, it may have sounded like hard to look at because it is a lie, not because of anything good. She is still the same person and she may have felt you thought otherwise.  I'm not explaining myself very well so I hope you can figure out what I mean.

I think it's best to talk in person.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL HER THAT YOU LOVE HER! If she's not really talkative take the initiative, be the guy for my part. She's clearly depressed and you being "i'm not sure" only makes her worse. If you don't know what to say then just say what you feel, follow your heart and voice the things bothering and asks how she feels.

If you act distant she wil distance herself as she will most likely think she screwed it up. I saw this happening with my girl (she's also kind of not talkative, especially if she's bothered by something). I had a hunch and when I saw her again she was clearly depressed. Only after she told me the stuff that was bothering her she calmed down. If I had chosen to let her come to me she would probally wouldn't have done it.

I can say personally gender labels were very confusing to me at first. Its a lot simpler after fully embracing it. I'm a girl and I'm a lesbian. I am not a straight guy. Just realizing that alone was huge for me.

The only advice I can give is to pour your soul out to her. Maybe let her read what you've written here? Let her know that you care and that you are worried about her silence. Tell her that you want this relationship to continue, and see how she feels about it. Communication! You need to keep the lines open. Tell her how you are reading up on trans issues and tell her that you are there for her. Tell her it's completely okay. I hope all turns out well, hun.

Again thank you all for your replies. They mean a lot to me.
If you don't want to read my entire post please at least read the last separate part of it.

Quote from: LordKAT on July 23, 2014, 03:01:32 PM
This one I may have some idea. Her response makes sense to me.

Thank you. I understand now. (It's a bit awkward - I always rely on her when I'm debating on forums and stuff to make sure I've understood others correctly and that my response isn't overkill. But now?)

Quote from: mark s on July 23, 2014, 03:18:34 PM
I think it's best to talk in person.

I absolutely agree. I forgot to mention that right now I'm at my parents place and will stay there for about a month. It's really far away. I think I will return earlier so I can spend more time with her before uni starts again.

Quote from: mark s on July 23, 2014, 03:18:34 PM
AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL HER THAT YOU LOVE HER! If she's not really talkative take the initiative, be the guy for my part. She's clearly depressed and you being "i'm not sure" only makes her worse. If you don't know what to say then just say what you feel, follow your heart and voice the things bothering and asks how she feels.

Maybe I was unclear, I'm not the one who wasn't sure. I want to ask her how she feels. But sometimes, it feels like I can't get through. The wall is too thick. It's only understandable after all these years she has spent with this.

Quote from: mark s on July 23, 2014, 03:18:34 PM
If you act distant she wil distance herself as she will most likely think she screwed it up.

I'll do my best to really tell her that I'm here for her and love her. I'm just not sure how to balance "giving her space" and "asking questions". I don't think I'm a good support person in that way. Balancing is so hard.

Quote from: muffinpants on July 23, 2014, 04:40:07 PM
The only advice I can give is to pour your soul out to her. Maybe let her read what you've written here? Let her know that you care and that you are worried about her silence. Tell her that you want this relationship to continue, and see how she feels about it. Communication! You need to keep the lines open. Tell her how you are reading up on trans issues and tell her that you are there for her. Tell her it's completely okay. I hope all turns out well, hun.

I'll probably show her this later on. Right now I want to have my own space to just let things out, though. I don't have anyone else to talk with (mostly because I don't want to out her, it's such a privilege to know this, she's only told her mother and me thus far).

The whole day I've been waiting for her work to end. I want to call her and leave a voicemail telling her stuff. That I love her, I want to be with her, that I'm unsure how to act and balance my support, and tell her about the pizza thing. I miss her so much, I spend my entire days just wanting to talk to her and be with her. Most of all I'd just want to be in her embrace for hours and say nothing. Just exist. Hold hands. Maybe cry a little.

--------------------------------------

All this has kind of made me question my own sexuality. As I mentioned in my original post I don't identify as bi but generally find women more attractive than men. If I have to imagine "being in a relationship with a man/woman" it's impossible. If I try to imagine being in a relationship, and try to assign a gender to the person, it's female or very "non-manly" man. When I make up characters for stories and the like, they are often lesbian if they have a stable relationship. It just... feels natural. Like "why would it be a man?".

If someone asked me, "would you prefer that your boyfriend didn't feel like this?", I would scream no! I want my darling like this. But I don't know if it is my brain trying to persuade me, if it's just because I want her to be happy. Also, I feel so fake for even considering that "hey, maybe the gender doesn't really matter that much to me, as long as she's still the same person (to an extent of course)". How is that even possible?? What if my brain is just making desperate excuses to not lose her?

I have always known that I like her because she isn't very manly. Heck, sometimes she's more feminine than I am. When I look at before and after HRT pictures of others, I'd so much rather be with the woman than the man. I just want to tell her, "just do it! Do it now! You'll be so pretty, I always tell you you're pretty and beautiful, but you'll be even more so!".

Sometimes when I think about all this, I get a horrible feeling in my stomach, like a rock, wanting to throw up. But I think it's more because I don't want to lose her than the actual woman thing. Sometimes I feel like... I'm happier than ever, and just want to spend every second with her.

What I'm really scared of right now:

• That she doesn't want to be with me anymore I must do my best to not think about that.
• That she will change a lot in personality. Of course she'll be a bit different. It's expected. But what if she suddenly wants to run for Miss Universe (something really unlike her)? I'm afraid.
• That she will be ugly as a woman... I feel ashamed for even thinking like this. But I think she's pretty and beautiful and I don't want an eventual transition to wreck that. As said she looks quite feminine already so I think her chances are good, but still.

(and to that is stuff like what will others think etc. But it's minor in comparison honestly)

If she's already on hormones for several months, then she'll only look better not worse. I believe the worst case there will be no more noticeable changes.

I feel like it must be incredibly hard to deal with a long distance relationship... I cannot even imagine. So kudos to you for not completely losing your mind with this situation. I don't want to assist you in your worries, but hopefully this will make you feel more secure rather than less. Before she came out, did you feel like she was distancing herself away from you? or was she just her same ol' self? Has she said anything about actually needing time apart (ie not in a relationship) to find herself? Has she ever shown the slightest interest in men or other people, or interest in not being in a relationship? Or is she just not wanting to talk about being trans? Hopefully going through those questions in your mind can give you some sort of clarity... it took my gf a LONG time to come to terms with being trans. She is still not a fan of it. I try to tell her to embrace it and love herself, cus, ya know, you should never be ashamed of what you are, but I suppose after years of people telling her that trans people are sick, crazy, pervs, etc. she was not easy to convince otherwise. Obviously she doesn't believe she is any of those things, but she still has that shame there. I think her biggest fear is just rejection. I don't know how she would handle it if someone verbally/physically accosted her for something that she cannot change about herself. She is a woman, there is no changing that. It's just a very sensitive area that took her a long, long time to open up about.

So hopefully it is not an end of relationship silence, but an unsure of herself silence?

Perhaps if you send your questions numbered in like an email or through facebook, she can get back to you on her own time, when she is ready. Has she offered you any reassurance that her silence doesn't have anything to do with your relationship? If you ask her that point blank, and she reassures you, trust her.

Also, perhaps you should explain to her that even though she needs her space, you need reassurance that she is still into maintaining yalls relationship. It's important for you to have support as well as her. Tell her you are there for her, and that you also need her to be there for you. It goes both ways!

and I understand your fears, it is nice that you are being so honest with yourself. Your sexuality sounds a lot like mine. It is very very confusing and I have ended up with no label for it, because it is just too... confusing. I have always been more attracted to women, and like you, my significant other is extremely feminine, many times more often than I. I totally understand the part on not trusting your brain, too. It's like.. 'well brain, maybe you are just telling me to like this cus I am used to this relationship being here and it's all I know, so I need to clinnnnnng!'. From the way you make it sound, your brain is not doing that. There has always been the attraction to women, your gf is fem already, which is why you fell for her, honestly, your lives might not change that much!

As for her changing? Idk how she is as a person, but all of the changes in my gf have been positive. She is still the person I fell in love with, but sweeter (didn't think it was possible!), more open, happier, expressive, a whole slew of good things. It did not change the person I got to know, except by making her happy. It's like she is human now, and it is wonderful.

As for ugliness, I know it's a worry, cus you just don't know what hrt will bring. Perhaps it is more out of fear for her well being than for vanity that you fear this? Would you love her any less if she were 'ugly' or 'unpassable'?
If she is pretty now, chances are she will be gorgeous after. Look at the before and after's here! They are amazing! Also, surgery is always an option.


Appreciate the update, hope all goes well <3

I recorded a message and mailed it to her as I planned to do. I also told her that if she wanted to we could talk on the phone afterwards about the day, nothing else. She replied quite a while after I sent it and said that she didn't want to talk, it would be too much. We sent a few short messages to each other too.

What I really wonder is whether to tell her about my questioning of sexual orientation, how I like her for being feminine, that I generally find women more attractive, etc. (I will tell her someday - but is that tomorrow or like, next week?)

Some thoughts:

• I really, really want to tell her that maybe it wouldn't be that big deal if she suddenly is my girlfriend, and it's probably not "I really want to keep her so I'll just force myself to do it", I might be bisexual even though I haven't truly considered it until now.
• I also want to point out that I like that she is feminine, probably one of her best characteristics - maybe what attracted me in the first place? Maybe transition would make her even more attractive, both visually and personally?
• I don't want my bisexuality to seem to suddenly appear. "Hey, I thought about it a bit, I think I'm bisexual so I can be with you!" Of course this situation triggered me to question my sexual orientation, but it is more of a "synthesis of things I've known or experienced for a long time but never really thought about" than anything else.
• I don't want to overflow her with information. This is in the end about her, not me. She should have the central role.
• But maybe, if she knows about all this, she can feel more accepted, and trust that I really do love her and really want to try?

God, when I write this, I just want to call her right now and tell her. It's 2:30 AM, not a good idea. But I just want her to know now, so she can understand and trust me. Should I tell her tomorrow? With another voice message?

Quote from: muffinpants on July 24, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
I feel like it must be incredibly hard to deal with a long distance relationship... I cannot even imagine. So kudos to you for not completely losing your mind with this situation.

Every summer has been more or less like this. And to be honest I don't think it would work to see each other too much, we need a lot of own time. Of course I want to see her but it's tolerable.

Quote from: muffinpants on July 24, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
Before she came out, did you feel like she was distancing herself away from you? or was she just her same ol' self? Has she said anything about actually needing time apart (ie not in a relationship) to find herself? Has she ever shown the slightest interest in men or other people, or interest in not being in a relationship?

No, nothing. It was totally unexpected. I think she said that the feelings have become stronger and stronger during the last months until Sunday when everything just erupted. I haven't noticed anything. All lack of intimacy or not seeing each other for a while during last semester has been purely due to me and how stressful my life is at uni. I felt bad for not being able to be a good girlfriend at the time. Our first day together after the semester had ended was so wonderful. Being able to be so intimate and loving with no stress - I think we were both so happy about that.
When she didn't answer her phone or to chat messages for 2 days, I seriously thought a relative had died or something.

Quote from: muffinpants on July 24, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
So hopefully it is not an end of relationship silence, but an unsure of herself silence?

I strongly believe it is uncertainty. It's just that, for instance, when I asked if she would rather be with a man and she was unsure, I become really afraid. Maybe she will discover a new sexual orientation now, when she can start to explore and to accept herself. Maybe I can't be the one to give her all she needs.

We still chat a bit every day. Not a lot, but a few messages now and then about neutral stuff. So I think everything is just too much right now for her, but she doesn't want complete silence.

Quote from: muffinpants on July 24, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
Perhaps if you send your questions numbered in like an email or through facebook, she can get back to you on her own time, when she is ready. Has she offered you any reassurance that her silence doesn't have anything to do with your relationship? If you ask her that point blank, and she reassures you, trust her.

I'm just so afraid of putting pressure, and I don't think writing would make it easier for her to express herself. (Though honestly I have no clue what I'm talking about now. When I've seen posts by her on forums and stuff I think she's good at expressing herself but I don't know if she wants to do that with more private stuff.)
But, I don't know how else I can give her opportunities to connect to me...
For now I think I won't ask about how she feels about our relationship. I'll keep making sure she knows I love her and just believe that her feelings become more clear in time.

Quote from: muffinpants on July 24, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
Your sexuality sounds a lot like mine. It is very very confusing and I have ended up with no label for it, because it is just too... confusing. I have always been more attracted to women, and like you, my significant other is extremely feminine, many times more often than I.

This evening I suddenly remembered a girl in 9th grade (not my class). I never spoke to her in school, but there was just... something about her. It was special seeing her. At graduation day I spoke a bit with her and we took a few walks during the summer. I didn't connect to her on a personal level and we never talked after that, but there was still something about her I can never forget. I've experienced the same with a guy but not as strong.

Quote from: muffinpants on July 24, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
There has always been the attraction to women, your gf is fem already, which is why you fell for her, honestly, your lives might not change that much!

Yeah, I can't help feeling "so what? Does this change anything in our relationship at all? She's a woman, that's all". I'm afraid I just haven't realized the full impact, that it's so much to process that I haven't come far enough to understand what is actually happening.

Quote from: muffinpants on July 24, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
It did not change the person I got to know, except by making her happy. It's like she is human now, and it is wonderful.

That's really what I hope will happen. I want to see her truly happy. I don't know if I've seen that yet, I have a few isolated experiences as "candidates" but I want it to be more constant, and have a stronger, deeper bond with her.

Quote from: muffinpants on July 24, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
As for ugliness, I know it's a worry, cus you just don't know what hrt will bring. Perhaps it is more out of fear for her well being than for vanity that you fear this? Would you love her any less if she were 'ugly' or 'unpassable'?

Probably I fear for her. I want her to be pretty. I think I'd find her pretty no matter her looks - I mean, I didn't really see anything special in her appearance until that day when I went "damn, I like him". Her personality was the key to her super beauty.
Many before and after images are such miracles, I can really see her being a miracle.

I'm thinking it would be wise to find a way to give your friend some space for awhile. Coming on too strong at such a delicate time can damage the relationship. Play it cool as best as you can.

At some point you might want to send her a link to this thread. I think you've expressed your feelings quite clearly here and the dialog with others about what you are going through regarding this could give some perspective into the importance of this relationship to you.

~ Lyric ~

Haven't done anything yet. Some chat messages. Every time I write I'm afraid I'm being too much but I don't want to be silent. (Or, maybe I want, but I'm so bad at keeping quiet. I talk all the time when I'm with her. I write probably 10 times the amount of chat messages she writes. God I wish I could keep quiet!)

Quote from: Lyric on July 25, 2014, 11:55:32 AM
I'm thinking it would be wise to find a way to give your friend some space for awhile. Coming on too strong at such a delicate time can damage the relationship. Play it cool as best as you can.

Yeah. Right now I'm "I really want to tell her about my sexuality, it feels like the last thing I want to say before going quiet and just listen to her whenever she is ready, but I don't want to push her or spew out more stuff than I've already done".

Quote from: Lyric on July 25, 2014, 11:55:32 AM
At some point you might want to send her a link to this thread. I think you've expressed your feelings quite clearly here and the dialog with others about what you are going through regarding this could give some perspective into the importance of this relationship to you.

Yeah. Part of me wishes I could do it now. But it's that "information overload fear", and my desire for a space to write things out.

Just a small update. I recorded a message about my sexuality questioning and stuff. It turned out more private than I thought it would but I was happy with it. I told her that she could listen if she wanted to, so I wasn't sure she would. However, she did, and said "I don't know what to say, but it was a good message" afterwards.

After that we've been chatting more like we usually do. No love declarations or phone calls, but I'm fine with that. It feels a lot more stable now and most of the day I'm happy with the new circumstances. I've also offered to listen as good as I can if there's anything she wants to say (as I've mentioned, I talk a lot!), so she knows I'm there for her.

She has barely had any vacation this summer. She said that she wants to work in order to not think too much. I want to suggest that she takes a few days off the week before I start uni again, so we have the possibility of meeting while I'm still stress-free. Will probably do that tomorrow. I'm fine if she doesn't want to, but I'm thinking that maybe a short meeting, maybe just an hour or so, might be good.

Personally I'm trying to explore this new side of my sexuality, coming to terms with it, what it means to me. It feels like I haven't been repressing these feelings - it's more like, I haven't taken notice of them. I sometimes have problems distinguishing feelings and finding out what's wrong in an environment/relationship etc. Like watching TV with the window open during construction work outside and not understanding why I barely hear what they are saying, or recognizing that being really really angry for no reason is usually because I haven't eaten for hours.

Hopefully we can talk more about this after she has been to the counselor this week. I look forward to it and I'll keep you updated.

Sounds like things are going decently. I hope yall can spend some time together, it sounds like it would be good for yall. Thanks so much for keeping us updated, hun!