My husband is bi, but I know some gay men that see pre-op transmen as fully male and will date them, and some that dont. I won't go so far as to say it's transphobic if a gay man won't date a preop transman because they may prefer that their partner be in possession of the sexual organ. Preferences don't make someone transphobic. But like with most things having to do with relationships and the like, it depends on the people.

I think many gay men is attracted to transmen like many straightmen are attracted to transwomen.
however theres a big taboo about it. In some way being trans we become abit of the forbidden fruith,
sure some gay men are very focused on the penis part
but theres also people who dont really care much or who may even prefern otherwise, these people however are kinda questionated and looked uppon like straight men who date transwomen get prejugdes.

I'm very glad this thread is here, as I too prefer men myself. 

As others may have mentioned, some gay cismen may be very focused on the gential area, but I believe there are many who are open-minded and can still see transmen as the men they are, somewhere in the world!

I have never had a gay male partner before, and the possibility of transphobia or being told they only date 'real men' is very daunting. ]:
To be honest, it's all down to that person's beliefs and personality and all that business. We all have preferences.

But I think it's just the same in any kind of relationship, gay straight bi or all or none of the above! 

~ Elliott

I pulled my once-in-a-blue-moon favor to get a sitter tonight to go to a transguy meeting where the topic was sexuality, and I was hoping to see more discussion around dating gay men, but most transmen date girls. It was still really good to talk to trans people in person and it was good to hear all the viewpoints and experiences, of course, but I left feeling a bit less confident than I went in.

In particular it seemed like a lot of people were either in long-term relationships or completely celibate, and the talk around dating made it seem like those were the only acceptable options. I personally have no space in my life for romance, unless I find someone who can be comfortable being around a crazy kid all the time in addition to tolerating my own foibles, and even then I'm not sure I care to put in the effort right now. I'm a big fan of hookups and other internet-facilitated sexual relationships, and navigating that as safely as possible is something I think is worth talking about. I was disappointed that the general opinion seemed to be that if you put yourself in those situations you are being foolish and asking for trouble. Not everybody has their life wide-open to rearrange to match up with typical expectations around dating, and a lot of people who do aren't interested in doing that.

I might should check out some groups designed for gay men, but I'm nervous about whether or not to come out as trans and how that will alter other members' regard for me.

I know that this is a little ranty and sex isn't the same as the thread topic about dating.

Samantha is correct that there is a parallel problem facing lesbian transwomen. I look forward to younger generations coming of age and further shaping cultural attitudes towards gender so we can all be ourselves better.

Of course there are some gay men who date transguys--I know from experience However I must say, I have encountered A LOT of transphobia from the LG half of LGBT community where I live. I find it rather unfortunate...

xsmittyx, in what kind of area do you live?
I am wondering if discrimination is really dependent on the area?

I have had very good experiences with attending social groups, for example gay groups at university. Once I made some good friends I outed myself to them gradually and they all stuck around. I think it's really important to have a background of gay friends that support you.

Why is it important to have a background of gay friends specifically? Why does their orientation matter?

It's helpful if you want to join gay clubs and so on. When you have a support network, people take you places, introduce you, you meet new people through them. If people see that you are integrated, they will be much more open to your trans status. They take their cue from how other people behave. If they see that cis guys are friends with you and think you are a normal guy, they will behave the same way. At least that's my experience.

So you can do it on your own, but having bunches of gay friends makes it so much easier. And more fun ;-)
It's not that I went there to "use" cis guys, rather the other way around.
I liked to be friends with gay cis guys anyways, and noticed that the outing and dating situation was pretty easy for me, compared to others.

When I moved to another place where I didn't know any cis gay guys, everything was a lot more complicated.
This only works, if the cis guys are open minded, of course. You wouldn't want to get involved with transphobic idiots.

Basically, dating while being socially integrated in some context is the normal way of dating, I think. You meet potential dates through networks with shared interests, shared values etc. When you meet someone at a friend's birthday party, you can assume they won't be that terrible - not so much on the internet or with dating apps where you talk to complete strangers.

Quote from: Edge on July 22, 2014, 01:17:03 AM
Why is it important to have a background of gay friends specifically? Why does their orientation matter?

Because they're people who can relate, who you can talk with about certain issues and they can empathize. It was something that seemed invaluable to me as a young gay man though less so now.

Huh. That's odd. I choose my friends based on personality rather than orientation. I'd much rather be friends with guys whose personalities are compatible with mine and for whom both of our orientations are a non-issue than gay guys who I have nothing in common with.

Bunter-I'm in a US  city of about 52,000

Edge-I agree with you; I'm friends with folks who share similar outlooks (for me it's political leanings, kindness to animals, etc). I don't base whether I'm going to be friends w/someone based on their orientation. In fact, there's a trans group here that I've attended a few times...I couldn't have less in common with the folks there! The one and only thing I have in common with them is that we're all trans. For me, that's not enough.

Quote from: Edge on July 23, 2014, 08:32:15 AM
Huh. That's odd. I choose my friends based on personality rather than orientation. I'd much rather be friends with guys whose personalities are compatible with mine and for whom both of our orientations are a non-issue than gay guys who I have nothing in common with.

I don't know if you're gay, but if you are, then you have something in common with them. It's just one thing, but it's kind of a big thing that complicates the lives of a lot of people. Sometimes those people like to have a support network of other guys, maybe other gay women too, who can relate and help each other out. I feel I'm beyond that now, but when I was young, I needed it desperately. And besides, you might find you have more in common.

Quote from: xsmittyx on July 23, 2014, 11:40:22 AM
The one and only thing I have in common with them is that we're all trans. For me, that's not enough.

Once again, it's one thing and you might find more. Maybe you've worked through most of the stuph you needed to about being trans and it's not as big a deal but I would suggest trying to remember a time when it was all very confusing and no one seemed to understand or have answers to your questions. There are plenty of people who are still where you (probably) were at one time. The very existence of this forum just goes to show that it can be helpful to have a network of others who can relate. I'm just asking that you have a bit of empathy for people who value that. The implication here seems to be that those people are shallow for seeking out people based on one trait, but one trait can be a really big deal at certain phases of our lives.

Quote from: dalebert on July 23, 2014, 12:17:28 PM
I don't know if you're gay, but if you are, then you have something in common with them. It's just one thing, but it's kind of a big thing that complicates the lives of a lot of people. Sometimes those people like to have a support network of other guys, maybe other gay women too, who can relate and help each other out. I feel I'm beyond that now, but when I was young, I needed it desperately. And besides, you might find you have more in common.

I am attracted to men. My straight and asexual friends are as supportive of that as my gay and bi friends and they're also supportive of the trans status of me and a couple other people. The straight people may not be able to relate to being queer, but they can relate to being attracted to people. The cis guys may not be able to relate to being trans, but they are able to relate to being guys. I met all of them (gay, bi, ace, and trans included) by chance through other friends and through things we mutually like. I understand that I am lucky to have that, but I don't understand why gay friends specifically are considered so much better than supportive friends. I've had much worse luck looking among LGBT people specifically.

Edge, I agree that in general, a person ought to have friends of all sorts, and that there's nothing magic about being friends with people who share your sexual orientation. That said, I think you might not be giving enough weight to the context here. The OP wants to date gay men, yes? The best way to meet datable people is to be part of a community that includes those people: in other words, to make friends with them...

I don't think anyone has said that "gay friends specifically are considered so much better than supportive friends," except in that context.

It's just a matter of... swimming in the right pond. 

Maybe. Honestly though, I met my boyfriend through something that I was invited to by a straight friend and it was an event that had nothing to do with orientation, so again, I fail to see why it matters.

I've had a few FtM's having an interest in me a few years back when I was in andro boymode. Even made out with one on a sofa and yes he knew of my dysphoria

It was confusingly hot and didnt lead to anything but I still think of what his life has become. Hmm. You travel in the opposite direction and you sometimes meet at a crossroads

Anyway, I wish you all the sexiest bf's/husbands in world 

Vivien

I think the real question is what makes them gay. If you flat out hate vaginas, then you aren't going to date a pre-op ftm. I personally hate penises and couldn't date a pre-op mtf for the exact same reason. Could I date a post-op? Maybe. I would imagine for someone who's gay it could be the same thing or it could be they feminine personality that bothers them. It depends on the person.

Quote from: awilliams1701 on July 23, 2014, 04:56:13 PM
I think the real question is what makes them gay. If you flat out hate vaginas, then you aren't going to date a pre-op ftm. I personally hate penises and couldn't date a pre-op mtf for the exact same reason. Could I date a post-op? Maybe. I would imagine for someone who's gay it could be the same thing or it could be they feminine personality that bothers them. It depends on the person.

Well, I think it depends on the person and their preferences. You don't fall in love with people based on their genitals, for the most part. Like when I see a woman, sure I might think about having sex with her, but for me it's about the woman as a whole, how she looks, acts, smells, speaks, thinks, etc. And for gay men, sure, penis is probably a part of the things they are into (if they fantasize about playing with a penis during sex) but more broadly, gay men like MEN, so if the guy is all around attractive, physically, mentally, and emotionally, the vagina is a really small part of that overall package. For some it could be a dealbreaker but I don't think that's the case for everyone. Love is about more than genitals.

dalebert, I totally get what you're saying, but the trans folks I know in my city are folks I wouldn't be friends with, trans or not. I'm not faulting them; thing is I'm a non drinking, vegan,  athletic, animal rights activist,  EarthFirst type  Anarchist who lives to be outdoors and be with animals and nature, plan on building my house from scratch, etc.  The folks I connect with here on those levels all happen to be a bunch of straight cis people.

The very small group of trans folks here are very much into the party / bar  scene, arrive at meetings with McDonald's bags, and talk a lot about material possessions, etc. One trans guy here is the most right wing, misogynist  guy ever and I would never hang out with him. We are just different folks, and that's fine.

On the other hand, I have trans  friends online who have traveled across the country to hang out with me and vice versa because we gel in all the ways that are important to me.

As a bisexual trans man who's dated a gay man.... yes! Haha. Obviously some people are gonna be really rude about it, but overall I've faced general acceptance from gay men who aren't trans, even if they themselves wouldn't want to date trans men. Then again, I'm younger and run in circles with younger people, so I can't say how older gay men are going to be, but those that I know have generally been pretty accepting of my wanting to date gay (and bi, but that's not really an issue) men.