Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on July 04, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
First of all, you are not the only one who's been beaten that badly, you aren't the only person who faces rejection on account of their body, and you aren't at all the only one here who tried so hard to live as male and simply couldn't (even if it was for a slightly different reason for me).  I'm sorry that you've had to struggle like this, and I'm not saying that those struggles aren't valid, but you cannot deny that passing gives you a distinct advantage (or privlage) in a society that hates transgender people with a passion.

If a woman passes for being cisgender and men who have an issue with transgender women are attracted to her, that's a potentially dangerous situation if they find out. If a dangerous man does not find a transgender woman attractive because she doesn't look cisgender, he is less likely to react with violence. One of the major issues transphobic men have with transgender women is "being tricked," as they put it, and when they "feel tricked," some lash out.

I think Anrogynouspainter makes a reasonable point - there are different levels of passing and, unless one happens to be indistinguishable as cis female on all levels, there are different risks in being read/found out... (and, of course, if one passes as cis female then there are other risks of violence which are perpetuated against women generally :-/ )

I would like to remind people to stay on topic though! 

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on July 04, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
You may face rejection when you disclose, and I am so sorry about that, but some of us can't find anyone at all since our transition-I haven't been on a date let alone actually had a relationship in two and a half years, and that isolation is unbearable for me.  I can't walk down the street without being stared at, and insulted on account of the way I look.  I've been fired from more than one place that didn't want to have a trans woman on their staff.  ...  Passing would without a doubt remove so many hardships from my life, and I just want you to understand how fortunate you are in that respect-even if there are many drawbacks to your experience as well.

Point taken. I'm sorry your life has been this way. Maybe I should think harder about being able to pass and blend and never be stared at and being able to have relationships with men (or women) without having to disclose and choosing when too. I did not see it that way. Maybe I have been feeling sorry for myself, but in any event, your make valid points and you were right to point them out.

Um, I'm going to not comment on a lot of what has been said. I intend no disrespect.

To the first question, I get clocked by women way more than I do by men. I am read as male almost always, but when I'm not it's usually lesbians of any age or very young women of any sexual or gender orientation. When I am clocked by men, it usually seems to be other transmen.

I went out in many places around the world, and always are girls who first stare, then get interested on guessing like if they have a personal bet, and you know perfectly when someone get you clocked.

the feeling is not the feeling we want to get we, must of the time get maybe shy , upset or unsecure.

one day i got this chinese girl taking hiden pictures of me with her phone, trying to get all my look specially my legs.

is  not the right feeling.

in other times i used to go out with lesbian groups and they were very understanding seeing a straigh guy all crossdressed and wearing very sexy,....the girls i used to hang out with were sexy lesbian girls bvery girly and not the kind that are too malish, i find them very understanding and fun.

i lived in europe asia and usa and everywhere ladies are first ones to examine you form head to toe.

Androgynous painter, where do you live? US? I just found out recently that in (I believe) 35 states, an employer has a legal right to fire a transgender person if he wants to, I find it astounding and absolutely vile!

There's a place where people don't have the right to fire us for being trans?  That's big news to me. 

I'm stateside, yes, though not in one without "protections" for us wrt employment.  That being said, it still happens all the time (happened to me personally a month ago, in fact!) and since nobody can afford to file a lawsuit, things usually just happen and that's that-also, legal protection hasn't helped in the slightest, because it's very easy for an employer to list another reason.  Ahh, the joys of being a trans woman sans FFS.  Sorry to the mods if this is getting too off topic!

I feel for You... That's horrible and makes me sad, however, I believe that we as a society grow day by day and one day, You'll find peace. Input of people like you is extremely important, thanks for your voice!

This happens to me all the time.

Most women - 95% of them mis-gender me.
Men - 10% of them mis-gender me. I normally get called 'mate' 'buddy' 'gentleman' 'young man' by guys of all ages...then women tend to get it wrong - you ladies are too smart and notice everything too much! Stop it 

Oh god yeah. Women are almost always the ones who misgender me- I managed to go stealth through an entire summer school session (the longest I've gone so far!) really recently and the only person who managed to clock me was a girl. Luckily, I had a lot of friends who were other guys and they were all really confused by her, so she dropped it but... yeah. Yeah. Almost always girls.

sloexander, glad it worked out good for, great to have guys there that stood up for you and she backed off.  Women can pay attention to more details and start questioning what is going on.  I transitioned in here at college so many know my history.  I have wonder several times what it would be like to be stealth on campus.  You must pass very well.  Are you started t?

I just don't know anymore, I think even the ducks at the nearby pond would misgender me if they wanted to

Then again I base this all on looks I get from people, I hardly ever get called sir/mam by anyone

I guess the word "Con...confusing" runs around in people their minds when they see me

PS:Yes, had a pretty anxious day again

Quote from: mm on July 23, 2014, 08:54:21 PM
sloexander, glad it worked out good for, great to have guys there that stood up for you and she backed off.  Women can pay attention to more details and start questioning what is going on.  I transitioned in here at college so many know my history.  I have wonder several times what it would be like to be stealth on campus.  You must pass very well.  Are you started t?

Heh, I'm not totally stealth at school usually, it was just a class with slightly younger folks than I was used to so nobody knew me.
Yeah! I'm actually just 4 months on t though, 3 months at the time of taking the summer class I did. Yeah, it was really cool having people there who didn't even know I was trans but were still willing to help me out there.

Even tho I am MTF I feel the same way. I feel like men don't get into things/features as much as women do. Although being MTF, being clocked by women is usually not that bad. They usually say stupid things like "work it girl" "fierce" etc which is an instant clock.

I've been misgendered by women twice. Men, never.

It's kind of confusing, because men are almost always the ones who stare, but they never say anything to me, and almost always treat me like a woman, where usually one of the very first things that I hear when I meet some new woman is "wow, you're tall!" And there tends to be a bit of standoffishness from them. I'm not sure what that says about gender norms or whatever, but that's the experience I have.

I get the tall comment all the time. (Being 6'7") However, usually it's in a complementary way. Often they will say, "I wish I had some of you height!"

I had another tall woman ask me about shoe size. (She was about 6'5 and cis.) She asked me where I get my shoes from as she has had hard time finding shoes. She was a size larger than me. We talked for a while and gave each other some good information and advice. I don't think she clocked me at all as we were talking about being the tallest girl in high school and finding a date. I did tell her I was a lesbian, but that didn't phase her at all.

I've also heard many transwomen say that the only women that clock them are African-American woman. So far I haven't witnessed that with myself. However when I first went full-time and was getting clocked on occasion it seemed Eastern Indian women would clock me most often. Not anymore thankfully

"clocked"?  Never heard that term before.  But It's kinda mixed for me.  I'm sure it has a lot to do with how you act around people, and if that specific gendered person finds your actions as a reflection of theirs or not n that's how they discern your gender.  It's all internal and happens within seconds, but,

f, idk, man don't overthink it, just do you lol.

could it be that mtf transition does not result in a passable presentation. appearance, voice, so forth.
pretty much anyone can figure out that a mtf use to be a man. man or woman.

could it also be that people stereotype that women as being more observant and men being dumb? who knows

Quote from: hardlife on August 10, 2014, 07:01:00 PM
could it be that mtf transition does not result in a passable presentation. appearance, voice, so forth.
pretty much anyone can figure out that a mtf use to be a man. man or woman.

No.

Many MTF women are passable, however it is fair to say that FTM's have some advantages in terms of voice and coarser skin and facial hair.

Women might be better at "clocking" trans folk, but they also seem to be more supportive and tolerant of trans-folk than men.

I get clocked by women more but I don't think it's intelligence based. I think women just look more. It's more acceptable for women to observe people than it is for a man to do so. He's called a pervert if he looks too long.