I am a little concerned.

There is great history in here of those posting for years and years self identifying as andro, both those born female and those born male, physically anyway.

I don't see those born female physically, in the posts, and that is bothering me.

Non Binary is intended to be inclusive and stir up a broader range of discussions.  We can't leave anyone out, even if it is because of the sheer volume of posts coming from those with strong female needs born male physically.

It may be time for a reality check.  For the older posters, meaning those who have been on Susans longer, to comment on if all is good here, and for the newbies.

This is an island of refuge for those who don't fit the usual all the way girl all the way guy transition.  But its also an island of refuge that has been around a long time, for the androgyn who identifies as that special type of trans that I can't even begin to figure out but whom I love anyway.

Thoughts dear people of trans?  Is our forum still healthy and vibrant?  Did we lose anyone we should have had more sensitivity for, pioneers of Susans?

I keep poking my nose into stuff don't I.

Now its your turn, and I will attempt to remain silent and read.

Blessings and love to all here, the silent watchers, the vocal ones, and everyone else so crucial to our survival.

Nails out......

I've been focussed on trying to get my medical transition going (FTM). But I do feel non binary. I just don't feel much of the female end of the spectrum. I'm kind of non-gender-masculine. I've known I felt this way for a very long time (15 years?) before determining that, yes, I DO need to transition and that 43 is not too old.
So, I don't think this really answers your question at all, but I of appreciate this forum.

I used to worry that I'd be kicked off the androgyne area because I wasn't going for an androgynous look, and didn't think of myself as an androgynous person. (Not that anything of the sort ever happened).

However, I know for a fact that I'm non-binary gendered, so the change makes me a feel very welcome.

There is an ebb and flow of FAAB and MAAB, they overlap quite a bit most times.
There were mostly FAAB people here filling the comments for some time, just recently it seems, I could be wrong.
Now that you have mentioned it, that is trending the other way somewhat more.
I don't think over the years that I've been here that it is skewed one way or the other, but that is from my viewpoint.
I don't really think about it to often and am pleasantly surprised when I find out that some are not who I thought they were.
Just goes to show that I don't pay that much attention to it, I suppose.

I think the question of how has the forum changed in the short time since the name change would be an interesting read.
I see more diversity for now, it could just be that there happens to be, but people have expressed an opinion about the name change.
All good as far as I know, I hope we didn't lose anyone because of it... I don't think we have, the response has been most positive.
Ativan

The change actually made me start posting to Susan's.

I'm still VERY new here, but I had a thought.  There's merit to that idea-I think that there are many non-binary FAAB people out there, but they tend to be younger, and I think the forums do tend to attract an older crowd-perhaps there simply aren't as many such identified people turning to the forum in the first place?  In a odd way, I think that's probably a good thing.  It means they are finding the support they need-the same can be said with younger trans* people in general.  Not to say that this isn't a wonderful corner of the web, but if I had more support resources around where I live, I probably wouldn't be here.

Ahh,.. but it's as if you have always been here... 
That's an interesting take on it, one that you most certainly could be correct in assuming.
There are much better resources available than there used to be.
I think that's one of the reasons that the name change is a good thing here, it opens it up more.
That in turn should let it develop into a better resource than it has been.
And that isn't to say it hasn't, it's just going to be able to be better if it is used more.
Which is, hopefully something that the name change will help with, it was for more than just a name.

I'm not someone who would be able to say what the younger crowd is up to, my time of being younger has passed.
It's people such as yourself who can make this a better resource. For everyone.
That's something I noticed about the name change, more than just wishful thinking.
It does seem to be more than a passing coincidence. That's a pretty nice thing to have happen.

It's time for you younger people to take over and maker this a place you too can be proud to be a part of.
I'm looking forward to that, watching and learning the new things I'm missing, because I am older and don't pay attention, like I should.
Ativan

Ativan, you seem far more ahead of your time than anyone of your generation I can think of here or otherwise...

*blushes, a lot..
Thank You!

SJ

I frequent the non binary forum far more than I did when it was the androgyne forum.  Rather than reflecting the change in forum name, I think that it reflects where I am on my journey as well as in my understanding of myself.  Like Ativan I have not really thought about the mix of FAAB v MAAB but did notice that the demographic is skewed.  Could be many reasons.  Will need to think of some more topics for threads,  you seem to be doing a lot of the heavy lifting.  Thanks are long overdue.  SJ your boundless generosity and curiosity are an inspiration!

Safe travels

Aisla

I've only drifted into this section of the forums in recent months.

The discussion here in recent months align very much with my current life issues - living as mta even though mentally I'm trending more towards mtf.  The discussion threads here tend to be verbose, well articulated, and generally have a fair bit of thought to them.

Much of the activity in this section is due to a few somewhat more active members, but it is great to see more people posting here as things resonate with others.

In some respects it may reflect the stats.  MTF outnumber FTM by a significant ratio - I would hazard to guess that MTA to FTA ratio may be similar.  I reserve the right to be completely wrong on this one!

I was taking a bit of a break from here when this change happened, I was a bit shocked that the Androgyne forum was gone, and I didn't see this one initially so I was a bit upset until I found it. The main observation I have is that more people seem to be posting.

I don't think there are less FTM or FTA, it's just many of them are able to cope with it differently by being a tomboy or butch lesbian, or some other ways. Since being a guy, for whatever reason, is considered better in this society, it's not considered unusual for a woman to wish she were one, or even publicly state this with nothing to come of it.

*raises hand slowly* FTN here. I was originally under the impression that I would be happy being a male but thankfully, discovered non-binary identities and it surfaced a repressed memory I had of visiting my family doctor just before I turned 18, telling him my wishes to be completely rid of my female parts (breasts and female reproductive organs, leaving ovaries in for estrogen)... he said no doctor would ever perform those surgeries on me because A) I might regret it and B) I might want to have babies.

It caused me to be very depressed and feel trapped within my female body. I considered suicide because there was no future for me to continue living as a miserable woman but a stroke of luck, I found Susans via Google and realized that there were procedures that I so desired to have... I immediately concluded that I was a man, that everything made sense. Oh, how wrong I was...

I was - still am VERY angry that my decision over MY body had been decided for me by male doctors no less - it is WRONG! If I am unhappy with parts of myself, I should be allowed to get rid of those parts without being judged like a freak for rejecting what is a "normal" part of my body or be saddled with the damaging assumption that I will want to get pregnant and give birth to babies because "that's the normal things WOMEN do". I should not have to jump through hoops to prove that I am "trans" - it has been a long distressing decade of a journey for me and my non-binary identity no doubt will complicate matters even further due to my desires to become sexless in the downstairs department.

I am sorry for the rant.

Echelon

No need to apologise. Your post is not a rant.  Your complaint is justified.  Once your therapist signs off on your 'transness' i.e. that you are TG , then I really do think that any changes that follow should be based on informed consent.  You should be able to define the space you wish to occupy and how you wish to occur, to yourself and to others.  If this requires facial or other surgeries, HRT and other therapies then unless the medical fraternity believe that there is some underlying psychosis I agree with your position and feel your frustration. 

I notice that when folk are younger the medical fraternity seek to overlay their narrative and norms on us i.e. "but what happens if you later wish to have a family" etc.   Frankly if you are mentally sound, I think that this should be a case of, this is your body and is therefore your call.

Your experience is strange to me, and smacks of double standards, as coming from the opposite binary I had no problem getting FAS (FFS with an andro intent), low dose HRT, hair removal, body sculpting and when unhappy with my aggressive breast development, a bilateral breast reduction from male or female practitioners.  Similarly I don't think that I would have much trouble progressing with additional surgeries if this was my desire and I can't imagine of any scenario where a 10 year process would be required.  From your experience it seems much more difficult for a FAAB than for a MAAB to have the surgeries that they desires to physically express themselves as non binary.

Do you know if your experience is common among FAAB non binaries who seek similar treatment or is this a characteristic of your country, medical system, culture etc?

Safe travels

Aisla

Quote from: Aisla on July 26, 2014, 02:05:27 AM
Do you know if your experience is common among FAAB non binaries who seek similar treatment or is this a characteristic of your country, medical system, culture etc?

I haven't heard of any similar experiences but there have been FAAB non binaries who have gotten approved letters for HRT and top surgery - even from my psychiatrist (he's the recommended go-to person for letters regarding anything transition-wise in our city) whom I always assumed strictly adhered to the binary system. I think that was when the Benjamin Standards was changed to include genderqueer/non-binary identities that it became the norm to provide treatment and naturally, my psychiatrist followed the standards of care very closely.

I would like to come out to my psychiatrist but I'm worried that in doing so, it will be equivalent to spitting in his face and my parents faces for all the hard work they've done to support me thus far, especially the latter half of the past six years. There does not appear to be any available bottom surgery options for those who identify as non-binary - as far as I know. It doesn't help that I know my situation of wanting to achieve a sexless body makes it even more outlandish.

This is interesting. I've checked into Susan's almost daily for years and I'm just noticing this "Non Binary" section now. I tend to pay little attention to the divisions, though, going first to "Show unread posts since last visit" and then to "Show new replies to your posts". I wasn't even sure of the definition of this term, I just did some research on it. Oh, well. Terms come and go, but I seem to stay who I am.

The only problem I see with using this term "Non Binary" rather than "Androgynous" is that fewer people from outside the community are going to understand what you're talking about. For my own use, I try to keep terminology as easily understood as possible. It's just very difficult to train the population as a whole in new terms. Still, I suppose someone sees a valid reason for introducing it. Just know that public education can be a very slow process.

~ Lyric ~

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on July 26, 2014, 01:13:29 AM
I was taking a bit of a break from here when this change happened, I was a bit shocked that the Androgyne forum was gone, and I didn't see this one initially so I was a bit upset until I found it. The main observation I have is that more people seem to be posting.

I don't think there are less FTM or FTA, it's just many of them are able to cope with it differently by being a tomboy or butch lesbian, or some other ways. Since being a guy, for whatever reason, is considered better in this society, it's not considered unusual for a woman to wish she were one, or even publicly state this with nothing to come of it.

I'm with Veronica Lynn when I looked for Androgyne and couldn't find it I had a WTF moment,  But tbh I could care less what you want to call it, this is a fine forum. In retrospect though I think "Androgyne" is more of an identification based on outward appearances and presentation, whereas "Non-Binary" addresses more of the internal wiring, thoughts and motives that drives outwardly androgynous individuals at least that's how I see it.

Veronica,

Good point re: butch females.  Gotta love the community double standards.  The additional chatter in this forum has been enlightening to say the least.

Shantel,

I think you're spot on re: rename.  Androgyne didn't really fit me - I hide my femininity on the outside.  The internal wiring is another matter altogether.  So the rename works well for me - it's still inclusive of androgyne...

Echelonhunt,

If you're not happy, you need to talk to your therapist about your real feelings.  He should be up to date on things if gender work is a substantial part of his practice.

I think that the term non binary is more contemporary and inclusive than androgyne.  The issue with names is that there are often many different definitions of the same term or name.  I am not sure that should "do a Facebook" here, and have multiple classifications and definitions. 

Aisla

  I totally agree on not "doing a Facebook."

tl;dr Don't need more sections. Shouldn't segregate from each other. Non-binary is a better umbrella term. Easier to find.

I personally don't feel like the forum needs to be more segregated. We shouldn't be segregating ourselves from each other for one. And I've modded and been admin to forums before. From a usability standpoint, you can very easily have too many sections. It turns people off.

To clarify what I posted earlier; I lurked and never posted because I didn't feel like this section was inclusive before. I did months of my own research before I started coming out and being out, which includes actively getting involved here and elsewhere online. So I feel like I have a good handle on terminology as it is today.

All of my searches for information on bigender and genderqueer never brought me to Susan's. When I did hear about the Unicorn Forest, I came right over to look and I immediately felt out of place.