I'm passing lately and it felt totally awkward at the urinal with men on either side. My hair is girlish long and I felt out of place. I'm presenting andro (well trying to).

When will I know?

... and what was your 1st time in a busy public women's restroom like for you?

I go to the one without a line...works for me. 

I don't make going pee a statement and it depends where I am and how im presenting myself.  I try to use gender neutral restrooms if possible.  I run in and run out asap as Ive had bad experiences in both.  Men turning around quickly as they think they are in the wrong room and women scorning me for being in the wrong room; a no win situation for sure and all I want to do is pee.

I was getting some really weird looks at work recently....I just quite but, I dunno maybe I am starting to male fail.

I think if I was wearing a dress (and neighboring stalls where also occupied) I probably would be made to know.

or maybe not? People do tend to be PC though.

But I'm blurring the lines here. I'm actually scared to go in the women's restroom.

I had a hard time at first. I remember how nervous I was. It was a two stall bathroom at a Denny's restaurant. Both the stalls were full. When a woman with child came out of the stall, I looked down and to the right so they couldn't see my face. As soon as they passed me I rushed into to stall shutting the door quickly. From that day on I considered myself full-time. If your presenting as a woman you should use the woman's restroom. It got a lot easier once I got my gender marker changed. I was afraid up till then. I thought someone would out me and I would get arrested.

I think the general rule is, if strangers are gendering you female, use the women's room. If strangers are gendering you male, use the men's room.

And I don't mean completely... I just mean a reasonable majority of the time, where you can safely say to yourself that an average rational person looking at you is probably going to be able to see you as a member of your identity gender. (And even if you're not getting properly gendered, you still have a right to use the bathroom of the gender you're presenting as. Get a carry letter or something if you have to, and nobody has the legal right to tell you that you don't belong in there.)

Another good indicator would be that if you're getting stared at while using the bathroom, or if people are giving you weird looks, it's getting about time to move to the other one. (Everyone goes through an androgynous phase, though, so there's a chance you'll get stared at no matter which bathroom you go in, so take your choice.)

Back in February, I was starting to get gendered female by strangers at work rather often. (Once or twice a day at least, sometimes more, while pretty much the only people still gendering me male were those who knew me already. And there were a lot of people who were asking me what my name was before gendering me, which was another big affirmation that I'd reached the andro phase where people couldn't necessarily tell my gender just by appearances anymore.) And there were a few times where when I went into the men's room at work, people were staring at me. And there was even one time where one of the guys at the urinal lurched back a bit and hid himself when he saw me coming in.

One night, I finally reached a point where I said "you know what? When I pull my hair into a ponytail and wear dangly earrings, I don't see any way that someone could gender me male." And so I decided to try using the women's room.

Nobody stared at me. I was nervous as hell (as probably everyone is when using the women's room for the first time,) but people pretty much just ignored me. And I've been using it ever since, and it's been 4.5 months since then, and still nobody's given me even a sideways glance.

So seriously. If lots of strangers are gendering you female, and if people are asking your name before gendering you, that's probably a good indication that you can start thinking about using the women's room.

I personally waited until I was really confident that I was passable, but again, that's not a requirement, that's just because I'm an overthinker and a worrywart. But hey, it worked.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 12:49:48 AM
I think the general rule is, if strangers are gendering you female, use the women's room. If strangers are gendering you male, use the men's room.

And I don't mean completely... I just mean a reasonable majority of the time, where you can safely say to yourself that an average rational person looking at you is probably going to be able to see you as a member of your identity gender. (And even if you're not getting properly gendered, you still have a right to use the bathroom of the gender you're presenting as. Get a carry letter or something if you have to, and nobody has the legal right to tell you that you don't belong in there.)

Another good indicator would be that if you're getting stared at while using the bathroom, or if people are giving you weird looks, it's getting about time to move to the other one. (Everyone goes through an androgynous phase, though, so there's a chance you'll get stared at no matter which bathroom you go in, so take your choice.)

Back in February, I was starting to get gendered female by strangers at work rather often. (Once or twice a day at least, sometimes more, while most of the people who were gendering me male were people I'd known for months.) And there were a few times where when I went into the men's room at work, people were staring at me. And there was even one time where one of the guys at the urinal lurched back a bit and hid himself when he saw me coming in.

One night, I finally reached a point where I said "you know what? Looking at myself, I don't see any way that people could think I was a guy." And I decided to try using the women's room.

Nobody stared at me. I was nervous as hell (as probably everyone is when using the women's room for the first time,) but people pretty much just ignored me. And it's been 4.5 months since then, and still nobody's given me even a sideways glance.

So seriously. If lots of strangers are gendering you female, that's probably a good indication that you can use the women's room with no problems.

+1 to you Carrie. Thank you this was insightful. I am scared out of my wits to go into the women's restroom. Will have to find a way to get over it. Let me test a little longer on my passability (I could start wearing makeup, but then Evelyn will probably look like a clown)

Thinking about all this, it also parallels dressing rooms as well.

I guess it's all part of the "ride" we call transition.

I use the woman's room most of the time, but if I am presenting uber-male I use the men's but I run in and out and usually get stared at by everyone if it's packed. Awkward. In the woman's room, I haven't had a single issue, and even talk to people sometimes, though generally it's in, wash my hands, check makeup, out. The other day there was a long line and no one stared or gave me so much as a "you don't belong here look." I would go when you're presenting female or when you're being gendered female by people more than once, as in like for a couple weeks. For me, everyone just started calling me she, and then I got stopped by the police when presenting male and they thought I was being crude for saying I was male and called a female cop to search me. I was adjusting myself a little, enough so they thought I was hiding something down there, since female's have nothing to "adjust." Ugh gross. and TMI. After that, I pretty much used the woman's room unless totally male. This was 13 months ago. Not one problem in the woman's room since. Though once I was wearing all male clothes and walking to the woman's and a woman said wrong one. But this was like three months into transition and I was wearing all male, and obviously male clothes. So, this is what has worked for me.

Maybe for the women's restroom I should carry a thing of lipstick and go straight to the mirror first (in case I get stared at, see! I'm a gal!) - then make my way confidently to the stall.

Thanks Carrie, you saved me a lot of writing, lol!

As for myself I've been using the ladies room for many years now, but I have exclusively since I had my major male fail and went full time in August of 2008.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 01:06:28 AM
Maybe for the women's restroom I should carry a thing of lipstick and go straight to the mirror first (in case I get stared at, see! I'm a gal!) - then make my way confidently to the stall.

If it makes you feel more comfortable it's a good idea. Just try not to show how nervous you are.

Allie

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 24, 2014, 11:35:24 PM
I'm passing lately and it felt totally awkward at the urinal with men on either side. My hair is girlish long and I felt out of place. I'm presenting andro (well trying to).

When will I know?

... and what was your 1st time in a busy public women's restroom like for you?

If you're nervous about your first time, and this goes for anyone, go in a group with other female friends. The herd will keep you safe (until you feel confident to go on your own.)

One of my Youtube subscribers was also a big factor in giving me the confidence to use the women's room for the first time. About 3 weeks before I used it for the first time, she told me the following story, which was a huge confidence boost for me, so I thought I'd share it:

"I had apprehension when I first used the women's restrooms. I was at a movie, before starting HRT, one night with a friend, and I was wearing unisex clothes and make-up, and my hair was long. He said I had better not use the men's room, so I stood in line with the women. Other than one comment that I overheard, that I was taking a spot in a long line, it went ok. I was uncomfortable but everyone was OK about it.

Another occasion early (4 weeks) into transition, I was out to dinner with friends and went into the ladies room. Now I was only 4 weeks on HRT and had no shape at all, and I am tall, and I was wearing unisex slacks, and my back was to the door. A woman came in, shrieked and left immediately. I could hear her tell a friend "there's a man in there". So they both came in and by that time I had turned around and was facing them. The other woman said "what are you talking about? it's just a tall woman". Other than those two incidents, nothing else has happened in the past 40 years.

Don't feel like an invader, because you are not.

Good luck. Love and best wishes from alice. stay positive and pee where you want to ... ha ha"

First time for me I was in a dress and I needed to pee, no way I was using the men's! Had no hassle using the women's - there were a few women in there but no one looked twice at me.

My recommendation that if you are the female size if andro then there is less likelihood of grief, the male side of andro may cause problems depending on where you are. If you look freaked out then you look suspicious, that will draw attention so be calm, maybe make the first time you go when it isn't an emergency.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 01:06:28 AM
Maybe for the women's restroom I should carry a thing of lipstick and go straight to the mirror first (in case I get stared at, see! I'm a gal!) - then make my way confidently to the stall.

If you ask me, that just sounds like a surefire way to draw unnecessary attention from people who otherwise would have just ignored you. The more you have a laid back attitude of "I'm just using the bathroom, who cares?" people likewise don't care, and just assume you know what you're doing and won't bother you. If you go in there strutting around and deliberately asserting your femaleness in a "See! See! Look at how much of a woman I am! Look at how much I deserve to be in here!" it's a surefire way to draw unnecessary attention.

Seriously, just go in and pee. Don't make a big deal about it. You don't have to prove anything.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 02:12:29 AM
If you ask me, that just sounds like a surefire way to draw unnecessary attention from people who otherwise would have just ignored you.

Seriously, just go in and pee. Don't make a big deal about it. You don't have to prove anything.

Agree 100%!

You know I actually did a image.google.com search for "women's restrooms mall" to see what the restrooms might look like.

Bad idea. Seems there's a lot-o pervs in this world.

But thankfully with passing i'm also 5'3" as well so that's gotta count a lot for something.

Well Evelyn, you know what my response would be

The first day I went to work I used the correct loo and every woman in the place knew I use to try and be a guy. The response was.......

Hi Cindy, how are you. Nice skirt etc etc etc.

Americans and toilets really kill me

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 03:08:42 AM
You know I actually did a image.google.com search for "women's restrooms mall" to see what the restrooms might look like.

Lol... sometimes I seriously wonder about you, Ev.

Seriously, it's not that hard to imagine. It's a bathroom. It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals. Aside from that, and maybe a disposal container for feminine hygiene products next to the toilet, they're exactly the same.

It's not like the men's room has a horse trough and pictures of strippers on the walls, and the women's room has frilly pink toilet seats and issues of Marie Claire in each stall or anything. It's just a bathroom. You go there, you pee, you wash your hands, you leave.

Again, don't make such a big deal out of it. Bathrooms are utilitarian places.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 03:26:38 AM
Lol... sometimes I seriously wonder about you, Ev.

Seriously, it's not that hard to imagine. It's a bathroom. It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals. Aside from that, and maybe a disposal container for feminine hygiene products next to the toilet, they're exactly the same.

It's not like the men's room has a horse trough and pictures of strippers on the walls, and the women's room has frilly pink toilet seats and issues of Marie Claire in each stall or anything. It's just a bathroom. You go there, you pee, you wash your hands, you leave.

Again, don't make such a big deal out of it. Bathrooms are utilitarian places.

uh yah. I was just curious Don't know why it seems so alien to me. I'm sure it'll pass with practice. ("practice" )

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 03:34:32 AM

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 03:26:38 AM
Lol... sometimes I seriously wonder about you, Ev.

Seriously, it's not that hard to imagine. It's a bathroom. It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals. Aside from that, and maybe a disposal container for feminine hygiene products next to the toilet, they're exactly the same.

It's not like the men's room has a horse trough and pictures of strippers on the walls, and the women's room has frilly pink toilet seats and issues of Marie Claire in each stall or anything. It's just a bathroom. You go there, you pee, you wash your hands, you leave.

Again, don't make such a big deal out of it. Bathrooms are utilitarian places.

uh yah. I was just curious Don't know why it seems so alien to me. I'm sure it'll pass with practice. ("practice" )

You need practice to have a pee?