Quote from: Wynternight on July 23, 2014, 04:25:08 PM
I'm agnostic because I believe absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence but I will, if I find there is one, ask what KIND OF SICK F**K makes transsexuals and allows someone to live this life of pain, misery, depression, and self-hatred. One that doesn't care or one that's a giant dick and get their jollies off watching.

You make a really good point and I used to feel the same way too. Yeah and it is messed up and being trans led me to look at different possiblities in the realms of Psycholgy, reincarnation and a bunch of other stuff that seems to be left out of more modern mainstream religion.

If you really sit back and think about it though, who really is the sick ones? God or the society we live in or culture of the area or the warped minds of man. We have the technology to change genders. Even if not, if society could accept us as our inner true spiritul gender, as other certain cultures and societies have in the past, would we hate a Creator or ourselves near as much? I think a lot of hate is misdirected toward a Creator instead of that which persecutes us publicly, laughs at us behind our backs Makes us the "joke" and really haven't a clue of who they are even. God created our self awareness or Soul or Spirit or whatever else that allows us to think and be aware. Nature and the luck of the draw dictated what our bodies would be. We have the technology to be who we truly are, but still society has it's ignorance.

I agree but I'll still be pissed when I reach the Sumerlands, Heaven, Nirvana, wherever the hell it is because, science, whilst it can do wonders, can't give me the girlhood I've always wanted, it won't let me menstraute, bear children, grow breasts naturally; all the things I hope and wish for. Hopes, prayers, and wishes amount to so much pissing in the wind.

Sorry, I'm a wee bit pissy today.

Quote from: Jess42 on July 23, 2014, 05:25:33 PM
You make a really good point and I used to feel the same way too. Yeah and it is messed up and being trans led me to look at different possiblities in the realms of Psycholgy, reincarnation and a bunch of other stuff that seems to be left out of more modern mainstream religion.

If you really sit back and think about it though, who really is the sick ones? God or the society we live in or culture of the area or the warped minds of man. We have the technology to change genders. Even if not, if society could accept us as our inner true spiritul gender, as other certain cultures and societies have in the past, would we hate a Creator or ourselves near as much? I think a lot of hate is misdirected toward a Creator instead of that which persecutes us publicly, laughs at us behind our backs Makes us the "joke" and really haven't a clue of who they are even. God created our self awareness or Soul or Spirit or whatever else that allows us to think and be aware. Nature and the luck of the draw dictated what our bodies would be. We have the technology to be who we truly are, but still society has it's ignorance.

Quote from: Wynternight on July 23, 2014, 05:33:56 PM
I agree but I'll still be pissed when I reach the Sumerlands, Heaven, Nirvana, wherever the hell it is because, science, whilst it can do wonders, can't give me the girlhood I've always wanted, it won't let me menstraute, bear children, grow breasts naturally; all the things I hope and wish for. Hopes, prayers, and wishes amount to so much pissing in the wind.

Sorry, I'm a wee bit pissy today.

That's OK. I'm pretty much the same but believe me I do not want periods, I can always adopt and be a mother if I find that special someone. Even as a male I can't have children so.... But I did grow natural breasts, little A cups, due to gynecomastia in my puberty. Secretly I liked it but it cause me so freakin' much joking, harrasment and such in school. Doctor mentioned breast removal and I used the old, "God made me this way so I'll stay this way" argument. But I still faced a lot of crap from it though. Yeah it would have been nice to grow up full female but when life pees in your cup add a little suger and sell it as lemonade.

Quote from: Jess42 on July 23, 2014, 05:45:53 PM
That's OK. I'm pretty much the same but believe me I do not want periods, I can always adopt and be a mother if I find that special someone. Even as a male I can't have children so.... But I did grow natural breasts, little A cups, due to gynecomastia in my puberty. Secretly I liked it but it cause me so freakin' much joking, harrasment and such in school. Doctor mentioned breast removal and I used the old, "God made me this way so I'll stay this way" argument. But I still faced a lot of crap from it though. Yeah it would have been nice to grow up full female but when life pees in your cup add a little suger and sell it as lemonade.

I'd be quite fine with having a period. It would mean I'm the really real me. I'll take the bad and the good.

I hate the idea of an infallible God, as I think my biological sex was a mistake and no idiot telling me I should love myself the way He made me will change that (I love my body, I just don't think I should be the one in it).  Besides, how am I supposed to look up to someone so inhuman as to have no flaws?  In the end, I'm not sure where I stand and I don't really care because the focus of my life is myself and the people I love.  I'm not saying you can't balance that with a belief in God, but worship just isn't for me.

I am not sure if I believe in a God but I believe in good and evil and that good will eventually dominate the whole universe. And I feel like my soul will go into eternal heaven one day. I believe I am a part of the goodness or a part of God and so are
millions of other humans while others are evil or contaminated with the evil.

Quote from: Jess42 on July 23, 2014, 03:39:10 PM
You are extremely worng in that as asessment Khaleesie, It won't be grasshopper it'll be cockroaches. They can supposedly survive a nuclear holocaust. And that's probably gonna be what wipes us out.

Hahahaha.......

Quote from: Wynternight on July 23, 2014, 04:25:08 PM
I'm agnostic because I believe absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence but I will, if I find there is one, ask what KIND OF SICK F**K makes transsexuals and allows someone to live this life of pain, misery, depression, and self-hatred. One that doesn't care or one that's a giant dick and get their jollies off watching.

There's far more questions that a theoretical diety should be asked besides that!!

As for absenence of evidence, OK, agnostic. Cool. So that means you 'just don't know'. Much in the way atheism, the 'belief' doesn't really affect you, so what's the harm? Right?

I thought about that a long time ago, and decided that I want to pick a side. 

Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 25, 2014, 03:38:25 PM
Hahahaha.......
There's far more questions that a theoretical diety should be asked besides that!!

As for absenence of evidence, OK, agnostic. Cool. So that means you 'just don't know'. Much in the way atheism, the 'belief' doesn't really affect you, so what's the harm? Right?

I thought about that a long time ago, and decided that I want to pick a side. 

Belief has caused no end of harm so therein lies my hostility towards organized religion. Religion is like having a penis. It's all well and good to have one but I don't want one of my own or someone else waving one in my face.

I'm agnostic in the old sense of the words: meaning I can neither prove or disprove therefore I can neither believe or disbelieve. I vaccilate between pragmatic and temporal agnosticism but I maintain a strong antipathy towards religion: Abrahamic in particular.

Fair enough. 

I think we limit ourselves to either atheism or creationism. Things aren't always so black and white. One side of the argument is that if there's no measurable proof of some kind of eternal sapience that governs the universe then it doesn't exist while the other side insists that there is such a thing, it's male, and is somehow an anthropomorphic entity that is both Love and Wrath. The idea that "God" could simply be consciousness and energy that makes up all things sentient and non-sentient — including ourselves — has been turned into blasphemy by the church or just New Age balderdash. I don't think it has to be either.

I think the firm belief in a deity is just as naive as completely dismissing all possibility of higher, supernal intelligence, because spirituality just isn't something you can measure, but it is something you can experience. We all put names to those experiences, but religion and scientism just can't let go of ego long enough or suspend disbelief long enough allow for new understandings and perspectives. It all comes down to fear.

Also, a lot of mythology (Christianity included) could very well be talking about events that were far more "tangible" than gods, angels, and talking snakes. It's all in the symbolism.

So, personally, my belief is centered on Western mystery traditions that explore all avenues by blending scientific thought with mystical insight. The method of science, the aim of religion. Separating the two is like dividing the balance between masculinity and femininity, or the Right Brain and Left Brain. A fun way of exploring this concept is to watch The Dark Crystal.

Quote from: sororcaeli on July 28, 2014, 08:45:36 PM
I think we limit ourselves to either atheism or creationism. Things aren't always so black and white. One side of the argument is that if there's no measurable proof of some kind of eternal sapience that governs the universe then it doesn't exist while the other side insists that there is such a thing, it's male, and is somehow an anthropomorphic entity that is both Love and Wrath. The idea that "God" could simply be consciousness and energy that makes up all things sentient and non-sentient — including ourselves — has been turned into blasphemy by the church or just New Age balderdash. I don't think it has to be either.

I think the firm belief in a deity is just as naive as completely dismissing all possibility of higher, supernal intelligence, because spirituality just isn't something you can measure, but it is something you can experience. We all put names to those experiences, but religion and scientism just can't let go of ego long enough or suspend disbelief long enough allow for new understandings and perspectives. It all comes down to fear.

Also, a lot of mythology (Christianity included) could very well be talking about events that were far more "tangible" than gods, angels, and talking snakes. It's all in the symbolism.

So, personally, my belief is centered on Western mystery traditions that explore all avenues by blending scientific thought with mystical insight. The method of science, the aim of religion. Separating the two is like dividing the balance between masculinity and femininity, or the Right Brain and Left Brain. A fun way of exploring this concept is to watch The Dark Crystal.

OK, lets say for a second that there is some energy that actually created the universe and thus the humans, why should I feel the need to worship them?

Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 29, 2014, 09:52:54 AM
OK, lets say for a second that there is some energy that actually created the universe and thus the humans, why should I feel the need to worship them?

God, I dislike that word so much when it comes to Spirtuality. I would rather think that God would have us try to understand and be enlightened about ourselves, the universe, creation and evolution and not so much worshipping. The word worship sort of gives me the impression of fear and I do believe it is about time we stopped fearing so much and shed that fear and truly try to be enlightened about such things. With science and a Spiritual awareness and context, not religious but an awareness that consciousness may be able exist without a body, we may have whole other worlds opened up before us.

Just look into the Multiverse theory and how whole demensions may exist simultaneously at different resonances. Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku on youtube mentions it even.

Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 29, 2014, 09:52:54 AM
OK, lets say for a second that there is some energy that actually created the universe and thus the humans, why should I feel the need to worship them?

Absolutely not. Worship sets you BENEATH this energy rather than PART of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with being devotional, though, because that really has nothing to do with worship. Devotion is an inner thing that you do for yourself and your connection to the divine, however you feel like defining it. Worship is really quite counterproductive to spirituality.

Every man and every woman is a star.

Liber AL vel Legis

Hear, hear! 93s

Quote from: sororcaeli on July 29, 2014, 05:01:50 PM
Hear, hear! 93s

93 93/93

Quote from: Jess42 on July 29, 2014, 10:26:58 AM
God, I dislike that word so much when it comes to Spirtuality. I would rather think that God would have us try to understand and be enlightened about ourselves, the universe, creation and evolution and not so much worshipping. The word worship sort of gives me the impression of fear and I do believe it is about time we stopped fearing so much and shed that fear and truly try to be enlightened about such things. With science and a Spiritual awareness and context, not religious but an awareness that consciousness may be able exist without a body, we may have whole other worlds opened up before us.

Just look into the Multiverse theory and how whole demensions may exist simultaneously at different resonances. Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku on youtube mentions it even.

Quote from: sororcaeli on July 29, 2014, 04:54:03 PM
Absolutely not. Worship sets you BENEATH this energy rather than PART of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with being devotional, though, because that really has nothing to do with worship. Devotion is an inner thing that you do for yourself and your connection to the divine, however you feel like defining it. Worship is really quite counterproductive to spirituality.

Awesome, I like your 'take' on things. However, the mainstream religions do refer to it as worship. You are supposed to be god-fearing and such. Again, I don't believe in any of this sort of thing, however I find the conversations to be enlightening especially when I hear more down to earth paradigms like those I've quoted above.

One of my complaints is that if someone were to actually live by the paradigm of being a good person and all the things that entails, the fact that I don't believe means I would be smited or left out of 'heaven' and such types of punishment. that belief seems rather un-god-like to me. If he wants people to be good, then cool. If he wants people to worship or believe or fear him, I'm not good with that, hypothetically speaking.

Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 30, 2014, 03:06:49 PM
One of my complaints is that if someone were to actually live by the paradigm of being a good person and all the things that entails, the fact that I don't believe means I would be smited or left out of 'heaven' and such types of punishment. that belief seems rather un-god-like to me. If he wants people to be good, then cool. If he wants people to worship or believe or fear him, I'm not good with that, hypothetically speaking.

I think our ongoing dilemma is that we don't stop and decide for ourselves what "God" is and base everything on someone else's idea. Hardcore atheists are really bad about that, especially when they take quotes from the Bible out of context to try and prove a point. One such example is from Psalm 137, verse 9: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." Instead of reading the whole psalm and understanding it to be a lament of a people against the destruction of Jerusalem, they take that one quote and say, "SEE! CHRISTIANS CONDONE INFANTICIDE!" Puhlease...

There are some wacky Christians out there, but they didn't invent the Abrahamic religions. Plus, the Bible isn't Christianity For Dummies; it's a book of parables, and it's full of symbolism and metaphor. It's like a double-edged sword: one side contains a secret history and the other side is a tall tale that the masses take literally. Plus, it's my opinion that the Old Testament and New Testament are speaking from two very different perspectives.

The OT was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic which both have very symbolic alphabets, so when they say "elohim" that actually translates into the plural, "gods" while "el" is "god". Think of Superman's name: Kal-El. So, all of the judgmental, wrath-like tendencies you see in those stories is really more like the behavior of a mortal being... perhaps from another world? I think that's far more plausible than angels and demons.

The NT was written in Greek, which is also full of symbolism. You can even apply Jewish numerology (gematria) to certain words that correlate and they each add up to the same number. For example, the Greek word for 'Will' is Thelema. It's numerological number is 93. The Greek word for 'Love' is Agape. It also adds up to 93. Together, Will and Love become the force of liberty and individual strength. Not the lower will of the ego, but the higher Will, or divine Will.

You'll find that Abrahamic religions that have eliminated their mysticism speak against any kind of direct spiritual connection and insist that you go through an avatar or a priest. This isn't the rule of a God of Love; this is the rule of men.

Anyway, sorry for the giant history lesson. This stuff has been an obsession of mine for almost 15 years now. The main point is, who cares what the Christian God is on about, because it's either a) a fabrication, or b) symbolic of something mortal and powerful, human or non-human, posing as gods.

Love is the Law. Love under Will.

You must keep in mind that the events in the Bible took place in a much different time where people's knowledge of life and the universe was rather limited.  Also, the people were less educated, hygene and food preservation was minimal, and they required more structure in their daily lives.  God is still omnipresent but he relates to us today on a different level.