So, I've been considering myself as gender fluid for a while, and trying to work out where to move forward with what I want to do and such from there but having a pretty reasonable idea.

I'm seeing a psychiatrist at the moment, referred by my GP before looking seriously at hormones (in low doses) for some changes, without going too feminine.

I've now had two sessions with the psych, and she thinks that I've got more dysphoria than I'm letting myself admit, and, well, if I really admit to myself what I daydream about and stuff... I'm starting to think/realise that I'm less "Gender fluid" and more "Transgirl with large family reasons why I can't go full girl" and.. yeah, it's kinda doing my head in with just not knowing what I should do from here and which way to go and how to move forward.

I may be wrong at the moment and suddenly my identity will swing back the other way but.. yeah, starting to feel like "Gender fluid" was a 'safe' way to look at what I'm feeling/exploring without fully committing, if that makes sense?
*Sigh*. I just wish I knew what to do, the major things holding me back are family related, pretty much a 'do I put my own health ahead of my Dad's, who I love, for whom the revelation would probably kill him', and I don't think I could live with myself if I told him.

Why is it all so hard?

It is hard because most of us were brought up to put others before ourselves, especially those we love.

It doesn't get easier with time. My mom's 85 and I wonder what my revelation to her that I wish to transition would do to her.

No one said trans is easy - in a lot of ways it sucks but

"It is what it is."

Best wishes sorting it out.

Hugs,

Kittenwolf

It feels hard but there is usually a way forward.  Just one step and then another will work well.  Whether you are gender fluid, non binary MTA, non binary MTF or binary MTF, or indeed any one of the many other different gender identities, the first steps are very similar.

Don't overthink this.  Don't try and guess your ultimate destination.  Continue the work with your therapist.  Over time you will understand your identity and if an endo is then approached then low dose HRT normally follows.   At this point you will be able to stop, reduce, maintain or increase your dosage consistent with your identity, health and objective.  You can transition slowly, stealthily etc. the options and expressions are myriad.

All of this is in the future, and I wish you well.   Many folk will be along to listen and to share their thoughts and support.

Safe travels

Aisla

Quote from: Kittenwolf on August 01, 2014, 09:15:19 AM
Why is it all so hard?

What's your age? I'm guessing real young.  The real deal is, 'yes' trans is hard.  Damn hard.  And quite honestly only the strong survive. 

Quote from: JordanBlue on August 01, 2014, 11:35:40 AM
What's your age? I'm guessing real young.  The real deal is, 'yes' trans is hard.  Damn hard.  And quite honestly only the strong survive.

... actually you're quite incorrect, I'm 30.
I'm aware that these kinds of things, like most self-realisations or going against established societal 'norms' are hard, but that doesn't mean it plays with my head any less while wondering about who I'm going to have to hurt, myself or my family, over something I can't control.

Quote from: Kittenwolf on August 01, 2014, 12:51:02 PM
... actually you're quite incorrect, I'm 30.
I'm aware that these kinds of things, like most self-realisations or going against established societal 'norms' are hard, but that doesn't mean it plays with my head any less while wondering about who I'm going to have to hurt, myself or my family, over something I can't control.

That's young compared to a lot of us.     Well maybe not a lot of us on this forum, because it's mostly younger people. 
but No, you can't control it and it will persist in messing with your head.  Some people will ostracize you, family, friends, or whoever.  Only you can count the cost of transition.


Watch the language.

It's hard because it is the very core of your identity.  It's hard because it won't go away and will be a persistent part of who you really are.  It is hard because what we feel is not what others can see.  What they see is not what is real for us.  I once thought it was impossible to get this close to living my dreams.  Now I get to live in my dream come true.....or closer anyway

For many of us this seems to be about our physical reality and changing it to align more closely with our intrinsic gender identity.  There are multiple ways, large and small, that we can slowly or quickly gain that more appropriate alignment.

Yes, we cannot control what others think about us and it is perfectly reasonable to recognize that they are responsible for their own feelings.  You may be surprised at the capacity for some of your friends and family to accept your truth.

Lots of people have more feelings about gender than they are first willing to admit to themselves. I know quite a few people who started off some form of non-binary and later transitioned (and vice-versa). I for one tried to placate my sense of feminine gender identity at first, and quickly realized there was nothing I could do that would satisfy me short of full transition.

Lots of times it is safer to think one thing, even to the point of self delusion, and that is fine. These are things humans do to cope with the difficulties and troubles they face, when we are ready to deal with things we will, and there is no shame in it.

I don't really know what advice to give about your family though.

Kittenwolf

You can only look after yourself.  You sound close to your dad.  I imagine that you both share a special relationship.

If you do determine that you need to transition then your dad's reaction may or may not be what you fear.  However don't sell your father short, a parent's love is usually immense.   Most cannot bear to see their kids in pain.

If it boils down to, do I tell my dad as respectfully and as lovingly as I can, that I am trans* and what this means, or do I try to live with immense dysphoria then the answer will become clearer, the options more certain and your decision more obvious over time. It will be easier to progress your thinking and decide what to do and how to move forward with a good therapist.  They will help you think through these issues and help you remove the crippling angst and stress which may otherwise engulf and depress you.

This stuff is not easy.  Many on the forum fear losing parents, siblings, a SO, children, their job and their friends - some find their worst fears realised whereas others find their fears were unfounded.  Almost all could only delay rather than avoid their decision and how best to live with their answer.  Small steps work well.  Walking with a therapist and a support group works even better.

Safe travels

Aisla

Kittenwolf, I agree with what the others have said.

I can only add my dysphoria was very bad when I was young. Then it leveled out to be followed by unstoppable dysphoria as I aged. I got to the point where I had to transition. I am just one person but I have heard others express this as well. It does not mean you will follow the same pattern.

I had placed so much thought into the little pills it was as if they had a power over me. As if I did this one thing it will all go away and it would happen fast. Well, the little pills work slow for older transitioners as far as physical change. The psychological shift, mental well being and reduced dysphoria are something I did not know about and it is fantastic. We need the medicine to address a birth defect, that simple. How you present, when and to whom is your choice. You are unique and get to do what you want.

I know this is difficult and it takes time to adjust but you will adjust.

You can shield your parents from the truth of who you are but that does not change who you are. I would want my child to tell me and I would welcome her and any way she chose to be. Many trans* lose a lot. Some quickly and some over time. You will find out who really loves you and are able to see your beauty. Unfortunately, any growth requires change and change is "uncomfortable".

Hugs

Quote from: JordanBlue on August 01, 2014, 01:12:50 PM
That's young compared to a lot of us.     Well maybe not a lot of us on this forum, because it's mostly younger people. 
but No, you can't control it and it will persist in messing with your head.  Some people will ostracize you, family, friends, or whoever.  Only you can count the cost of transition.

For reference on the age thing, I posted this a while ago
See! Not so young
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,164624.msg1429892.html



Thankyou for the comments & support everyone. I'm feeling better today, I just get so worked up when I think about these things, feels like I'm spinning like a top until I fall over.
One step at a time.

Kittenwolf -

It sounds like you are relatively early in the process and are beginning the hard work of figuring out who you are. Regardless of the noise that's in you head there is no need to rush through this unless it is causing you to engage in self destructive behavior; if that is the case then you must seek professional help immediately.

Why is it hard? Tessa listed out some very good reasons, and I'll add another one - simply put, fear - fear of the unknown and fear of loss.

If you decide to transition you'll find that it is a terrifying process and everything in your life becomes at risk. Everyone loses something in a transition, some lose very little and some lose everything, and when you are facing that possibility - it's hard. It requires much courage to face the possibility of incurring staggering losses and proceed anyway. It takes much courage to come out to your wife knowing that about 90% of marriages fail when a person comes out as transgender, yet you proceed to do so anyway. It takes much courage to step out in the world in a complete different gender presentation knowing that some might laugh at you (or worse), yet you proceed to do so anyway. It takes much courage to come out to the people that you know and to possibly be labeled a freak or a pervert by them, yet you do so anyway. It takes much courage when you are facing the medical stuff that we have to face, and especially when you have a date with a scalpel for surgery that will help you pass better or will provide the bottom configuration you desire, yet you do so anyway. It takes much courage to come out at work and face the possibility of being fired or of losing prestige and power in the company, yet you do so anyway.

That's why it's hard.   

If you find that you really are genderfluid then some things in the above list won't apply to you, but you may have others added to the list like how to explain wearing nail polish or how to explain your nicely shaved legs when you wear shorts, and so on.

Figure out who you are first and you'll then know what you need to work on going forward.

Quote from: Kittenwolf on August 01, 2014, 10:55:37 PM
I'm feeling better today, I just get so worked up when I think about these things, feels like I'm spinning like a top until I fall over.
One step at a time.

Ok, now this is real confusing to me.  You say 'gender fluid' yet your pics look totally MtF trans to me.  As far as the age thing, if you wanna be called old, fine, you're old.  I think I'm leaning with your therapist's opinion, but if you're avoiding the 'transgirl' label just to keep peace with whoever...you'll only get so far with that.  Let me say this...once you put those pills in your body,all bets are off.

Quote from: Kittenwolf on August 01, 2014, 10:55:37 PM
For reference on the age thing, I posted this a while ago
See! Not so young
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,164624.msg1429892.html

You shouldn't get hung up on the age thing. It's all relative. I'm 48 so you're pretty young to me.

I guess you could ask yourself if you had the option to live forevermore as a woman would you take it? How would you feel if that chance was taken away from you? That should help illuminate your thoughts around this.

This may help.  Lauren McNamara (aka Zinnia Jones) talks about her shift from seeing herself as genderqueer to choosing to transition.  Great stuff from the vulcan of transgender logic.

I have very little doubt any survey taken which asked "Do you want to be trans?" will come back with a 100% HELL NO. I don't know anyone who did not ask themselves or others "Why couldn't I just be_____ instead?"

It is hard simply because it affects how you've been taught, and perhaps even see yourself, as living in this world. So many seemingly simple binary constructs no longer appear so clear cut. In other words, your brain starts to hurt as smoke pours out of your ears.

Most of us spent years trying alternatives. I spent over 30 trying to convince myself I am just a CD++. THough deep down inside I still had that very same wish, dream, hope, that surfaced around the age of five, that someday I'd wake up as a woman. It took about 50 years to realize that every day I have been and just haven't been paying attention to it. In fact, fighting those thoughts tooth and nail

Quote from: JordanBlue on August 01, 2014, 11:58:37 PM
Ok, now this is real confusing to me.  You say 'gender fluid' yet your pics look totally MtF trans to me.  As far as the age thing, if you wanna be called old, fine, you're old.  I think I'm leaning with your therapist's opinion, but if you're avoiding the 'transgirl' label just to keep peace with whoever...you'll only get so far with that.  Let me say this...once you put those pills in your body,all bets are off.

Okay, rational hat back on, I'll explain properly now that I'm not a spiraling fountain of venting angst
I'd come to the realisation about.. eighteen months ago that I was gender fluid, sometimes I felt like a girl, sometimes like a boy.
In the last week, that 'genderfluid' realisation is starting to give way and it's looking more like that was a 'safe' way to explore female thoughts/identity without 'committing all the way' (and please forgive the kinda crass terms there, it's rather late here).
However, I unfortunately have a dad that is firmly rooted in 1950s gender stereotypes, who lost most of his health, his ability to be the primary breadwinner in the family, his sexual function, and the ability to pee without a catheter, to cancer. This has pretty much left him clinging to "Well at least my son is growing up to be a decent sort that I can be proud of, I did something right as a father/man", and I'm pretty sure that finding out I want to be a girl would pretty much destroy the last thread he's holding on to. And in spite of his views, I love him to bits, and I'm dreading when things reach the final "Choose between my identity and his peace of mind" breaking point.


Those pictures I posted were of me trying to play up the 'girl' appearance in one way or another (or several), and seeing how well I passed. I take very strongly after my mum when it comes to appearance (well, and several other things) and I also have next to no upper body mass, so it's not uncommon for people to call me miss at first glance even when I'm dressed typically as a guy (heck, I had one guy last week do a double take at me walking out of the male restrooms, when I was in a full suit & tie with my hair pulled back).
I remember my testosterone levels being tested back near the start of University (along with a bunch of other things) and I was at the shallow end of male norm, hence the slight build and not especially masculine features. I'm also on the 'baby faced' side (apparently) which seems to also play into me looking more feminine than a typical male-bodied individual of my age.

I *am* however curious as to what you mean by "look totally MtF trans" precisely?

Quote from: Ms Grace on August 02, 2014, 12:10:28 AM
You shouldn't get hung up on the age thing. It's all relative. I'm 48 so you're pretty young to me.

I concede the point
It was mostly something I brought up because my peer group from University has started to meld with a couple of other peer groups and so we're randomly finding people that we're friends with now aren't even 20 yet, and it can be a tad jarring (even moreso when one of them is a cute girl you get along with...)

QuoteI guess you could ask yourself if you had the option to live forevermore as a woman would you take it? How would you feel if that chance was taken away from you? That should help illuminate your thoughts around this.

Realising that was pretty much the major thing that made me admit I'm probably full (for want of a much better term) trans.

Thanks everyone for all the words and advice and such. Hopefully I'll be able to beat into my own head that I don't need to solve all these things immediately
My current plan is get my voice training up and working so that I can sound like a girl (my main issue with passing right now), learn other little bits and pieces (like mannerisms and makeup) as I go along, and (Psych & GP allowing) start on a low hormone dose to see what effects it starts having on me, if I can get some desired effects without unwanted ones, and generally see how I *feel* on them. And then start making decisions with more data.

Quote from: Kittenwolf on August 02, 2014, 11:52:20 AM
My current plan is get my voice training up and working so that I can sound like a girl (my main issue with passing right now), learn other little bits and pieces (like mannerisms and makeup) as I go along, and (Psych & GP allowing) start on a low hormone dose to see what effects it starts having on me, if I can get some desired effects without unwanted ones, and generally see how I *feel* on them. And then start making decisions with more data.

That sounds like a very sensible plan, Kittenwolf. I started on low dose HRT for a number of years and it really helped to knock down the dysphoric feelings without too much feminization occurring. Are you seeing a therapist? A good therapist can really help sort your feelings.

i have this feeling that the most important thing isn't to change into that which you feel like you should have been born as, but rather to admit to yourself that this is what you are. it's much easier to put up a mask in some social situations when you're fully aware that this is just a mask, and what reasons you have for putting up that mask.

transitioning takes time even if you do decide to do it. there's no reason to rush any decisions unless you really can't live without making those changes. whichever choice you make when it comes to telling your father or not, make sure it's one you can live with no matter what the outcome. either you're mentally prepared to see your father lose all hope, if that's what happens, or you're not.

you also have to consider how much responsibility you should take for another person's mental health. taking good care of another person requires that you're able to take care of yourself first. maybe transition will give you the strength needed to handle your father's reaction, for all you know. unfortunately, life is always uncertain, so there's no real knowing until it happens. which is why you need to think through how far you feel like you can go without regretting any possible outcome. and keep in mind too, that not doing something can also cause just as much regret as doing the wrong thing.

it's okay to medically transition and still identify as genderfluid! i'm technically a transguy, but there are days where i identify with the femme side of my identity more.