Coming out for equality

Rutland Herald
Letter by Michael Saint Joseph
09/15/2007

"The gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender (GLBT) community needs to be strengthened. Those of us that are "out" as a GLBT individual need your support to fight the battle for full civil rights. Until those GLBT persons that are not out come out we will not see full equality".

Quote from: from articleUntil those GLBT persons that are not out come out we will not see full equality".

I don't know about gay people, but most of the transsexual people I know (including myself) transitioned to have normal lives as men and women.  If activism is what some people want to do, so be it.  Just don't ever suggest that I "have" to do the same. I don't owe anything to anyone or any community and I am sure that most transsexual people who now live happy, normal lives don't either.

A lot of us have endured many years of pain and sacrificed many dear things to us trying to gain a respectable place in society without the help of anyone or any community.  Hence, I find it utterly offensive to imply that I "have" obligations with any community or groups of people because I DON'T.  Period.

tink

QuoteQuote from: from article
Until those GLBT persons that are not out come out we will not see full equality".

QuoteI don't know about gay people, but most of the transsexual people I know (including myself) transitioned to have normal lives as men and women.  If activism is what some people want to do, so be it.  Just don't ever suggest that I "have" to do the same. I don't owe anything to anyone or any community and I am sure that most transsexual people who now live happy, normal lives don't either.

A lot of us have endured many years of pain and sacrificed many dear things to us trying to gain a respectable place in society without the help of anyone or any community.  Hence, I find it utterly offensive to imply that I "have" obligations with any community or groups of people because I DON'T.  Period.

That is your right, but at the same time, you and most other people here enjoyed a lot of the freedoms you all had while you transitioned because of the queers who stood up and took abuse, so that you did not have to dear. You used the word "normal," which I find appalling. Et tu, brutus?

People that transition do go through a lot in their life path, but no more so than the lives of gays, lesbians, and the transgendered people that came before you. Please never, ever forget that fact.

There is no obigation of you or anyone else here to do anything they don't wish to do. But, if you or anyone else here does not feel the slightest bit of thanks or obligation to those that cleared the path for you all, then I feel used on a personal level. I will simply say you're welcome with my teeth gritted together.

Further, I would also assume that anyone that does not feel the need to stand up for the rights of anyone else, to be an activist, or to speak out in a anyway because they are a normal man or woman would then neither need nor utilize the services provided by the GLB communities. So, if any of you that feel that way need legal support because of discrimination in the future, please do not bother GLADD with your issues. You will be an island unto yourself.

Read the bottom of my posting. Those not willing to stand up and demand their rights do not deserve any. If anyone here has trouble now or in the future, don't expect anyone else to stand up for you. You are on your own, dig?

i quite agree with with tink on this one.  i would never jeopardize my stability for any cause either.  that's my right and what i have i owe it to myself and the battles i've won on my own not because of anyone else.  sorry thundra but i don't concord with you. 

i understand where you are coming from but don't assume that every transsexual person who has succeeded has done so because of the queers who stood up and took abuse, so that i did not have to.  ha ha ha ha that's insulting and demeaning to many people like myself,  thundra.  fyi i have never received crap from anyone.  everything i've got i have earned myself without the help of any queers.  sorry to be blunt but you know me.  i always tell it like it is.

 

Quote from: Thundra on September 17, 2007, 12:09:06 AM
That is your right, but at the same time, you and most other people here enjoyed a lot of the freedoms you all had while you transitioned because of the queers who stood up and took abuse, so that you did not have to dear. You used the word "normal," which I find appalling. Et tu, brutus?

People that transition do go through a lot in their life path, but no more so than the lives of gays, lesbians, and the transgendered people that came before you. Please never, ever forget that fact.

There is no obigation of you or anyone else here to do anything they don't wish to do. But, if you or anyone else here does not feel the slightest bit of thanks or obligation to those that cleared the path for you all, then I feel used on a personal level. I will simply say you're welcome with my teeth gritted together.

Further, I would also assume that anyone that does not feel the need to stand up for the rights of anyone else, to be an activist, or to speak out in a anyway because they are a normal man or woman would then neither need nor utilize the services provided by the GLB communities. So, if any of you that feel that way need legal support because of discrimination in the future, please do not bother GLADD with your issues. You will be an island unto yourself.

Read the bottom of my posting. Those not willing to stand up and demand their rights do not deserve any. If anyone here has trouble now or in the future, don't expect anyone else to stand up for you. You are on your own, dig?

Pardon me?  The day that you or anyone else here pays at least 10% of what I've spent on transition, eg, clinicians, hormones, hair removal, facial recounturing, breast implants plus what I've got know, eg, good employment, a good salary. etc.  that day please remind me to say thank you.  If not, it's best to keep one's observations to one's self.

Quote from: Thundra on September 17, 2007, 12:09:06 AM
That is your right, but at the same time, you and most other people here enjoyed a lot of the freedoms you all had while you transitioned because of the queers who stood up and took abuse

Hiya Thundra, That's amusing.  All this time I was under the impression that I enjoyed a lot of my freedoms because: 1. I pass.  2. I have gone to school.  3.  I have three degrees in interior design and foreign languages.  4.  I'm financially independent.  5. I work for a major designer company here in Paris.  Bloody hell, it wasn't because of that? it was because of the abuse that others put up with?  This is really ludicrous.  Lol

Quote from: Thundra on September 17, 2007, 12:09:06 AM
There is no obigation of you or anyone else here to do anything they don't wish to do. But, if you or anyone else here does not feel the slightest bit of thanks or obligation to those that cleared the path for you all, then I feel used on a personal level. I will simply say you're welcome with my teeth gritted together.

I will back up Blanche.  Don't give me 10%.  I would be more than happy with just
1% of what I have spent.  Only 1% and I will be eternally thankful to you.

Quote from: Thundra on September 17, 2007, 12:09:06 AM
Further, I would also assume that anyone that does not feel the need to stand up for the rights of anyone else, to be an activist, or to speak out in a anyway because they are a normal man or woman would then neither need nor utilize the services provided by the GLB communities. So, if any of you that feel that way need legal support because of discrimination in the future, please do not bother GLADD with your issues. You will be an island unto yourself.

Read the bottom of my posting. Those not willing to stand up and demand their rights do not deserve any. If anyone here has trouble now or in the future, don't expect anyone else to stand up for you. You are on your own, dig?

I'm French but even if I weren't, I have never gotten anything from anybody either.  I have paid for everything I've got & I've made it on my own.  Sorry to disappoint you Thundra but not everybody fits your scheme.  We are a diverse group, innit? as such we come from different walks of life.  Sorry that you feel that I owe you; reality is that I don't.  Forgive my honesty but I'm answering with the same honesty you wrote your post.  Au revoir!

One of the things that we "queers" are going to have to realize is that we are all indeed working for the same thing that many transpeople have achieved on their own: completely anonymity.

What do I mean by that? Quite simply, our ultimate goal... over everything... is so that our lives and sexual orientation don't mean squat to the world around us. Transwomen and transmen who have completed their transition can now live out their lives as women or men, and do so peacefully.

We all need to support each other, no matter where we are. And if it means letting people slip into the anonymity of living life as a human being that's no longer identifiable as GLBT since they've completed their transition... then that's what it means.

There doesn't need to be any posturing in this issue. If we work for the struggle, then we work. If we are here to just get on with our lives, then we need to do that. I don't think it helps anyone to try to make any one group responsible for the benefits of the other.

Quote from: Jeannette on September 17, 2007, 04:30:53 AM
Hiya Thundra, That's amusing.  All this time I was under the impression that I enjoyed a lot of my freedoms because: 1. I pass.  2. I have gone to school.  3.  I have three degrees in interior design and foreign languages.  4.  I'm financially independent.  5. I work for a major designer company here in Paris.  Bloody hell, it wasn't because of that? it was because of the abuse that others put up with?  This is really ludicrous.  Lol

I find it very offensive when people brag on this site about how well they pass. When you do this you discourage every TS who has not yet reached the point that you have. At some point in time every TS here has likely looked like a guy in a dress, then we also have some people won't ever pass as well as others no matter what they do, and it is a smack in the face to each and every one of them. I want it to stop.

Thundra has a point. 20-40 years ago it was unheard of to be out of the closet be you gay, or trans. Today it's marginally acceptable. In another 20-40 years we can hope that it will go by without notice. But it will reach that point because of people who are out there fighting to change the views of society. When other people fight for rights for our community, we all benefit. I do disagree with her on the point that everyone should be required to come out of the closet (This term also includes those who go stealth). I will point out that if everyone who was GLBT came out of the closet our rights would likely come much faster. Even if you can't come out of the closet you can donate to the cause. Activism is a series of small and big steps. Everyone should take at least one.

You folks don't feel you owe anything to all those who came before you,  those who pioneered the surgery and the hormone therapy, and simply the right to do what you've done? You can at least make a donation to the cause and write your congressmen. Don't worry, they won't "out" you.

Personally, I hope I can do something to make it even easier for those who come next so that they won't have to worry quite so much about how well they "pass".

Well I guess you all told me, didn't you?

Very well. In that case, I have changed my position on this subject.

From now on, I no longer extend a helping hand to any transitioning folk, since you are all totally self-sufficient. I have always battled within my own community to fight for extended rights for everyone because it is the right thing to do. ENDA would have passed a long time ago without all of the gender crap attached to it.

Barney Frank was right and I was wrong when he fought against inclusion. Now I feel like a GD fool. Leigh warned me. I will use whatever influence I have to work toward removing the "T" from GLBT from this point on. Whenever I speak to sistahs and brothahs in the community, I will be sure to tell them what you really think of us. When someone tries to come into woman's space and I know their past, they are getting the boot. I am going to make it my business to "out" every person I can. Then we'll see how bad you all are. When I clock someone that thinks they pass so well, I am spreading it all over the place. They will not have a moments piece in my world. If you are str8, than stay in the str8 world 24/7.

I say again, be careful what you say, because it may come back to bite you. Who are you going to count on if you encounter discrimination in your life? Whether you "pass" or not, all it takes is one person outing you to unravel your life. If that happens, don't come crawling to the GLB community seeking help. You are on your own.

Who do you think has been picking up the tab for all of the cases you have won?  Queers.
Who does everyone go running toward when a problem or resources are needed? Queers.
I say the hell with the whole lot of you if this is your attitude.

IMO, there is nothing worse than a group of people that do nothing to fight for their own rights, neither recognize or appreciate the struggles of others, and then turn around and kick them in the teeth to boot. During the civil rights struggles, many "uncle toms" worked against those working to expand civil rights protections to black people. But when those battles were won, they benefitted from them even though they had fought against them. You people are their equivalent.

You people crack me up. You think things are tough? %#&^!  You know nothing of tough.
Twenty or thirty years ago the whole lot of you would have been toast.

You don't owe anyone anything?  Fine. But when the going gets tough, and it will in this election year, don't forget who to ask for help. Look in the mirror.

Quote from: Thundra on September 17, 2007, 09:07:50 PM
You don't owe anyone anything?  Fine. But when the going gets tough, and it will in this election year, don't forget who to ask for help. Look in the mirror.

Bravo!