Quote from: MeghanAndrews on September 17, 2007, 01:44:01 AM
Hey Natalie,
I'm sure others will have much more helpful posts, it's just me, Meghan 
I am not going to give you the "oh, you look great, you shouldn't feel like you do" speech because it won't do any good, that kind of thing falls on deaf ears when you feel like you do. You mention that you get plenty of validation but then you mentioned several times that many of your close friends have kind of overlooked the transition. I'm just curious if a lot of the validation you get is from strangers and then your close friends kind of invalidate what strangers say?
I mean, I know we are supposed to get all validation from ourselves, be strong, etc., etc. ad nauseum, but realistically, I relate to what you say, some of that is going to come from our surroundings. I wonder if it would help to maybe reach out to people outside of your immediate circle of friends and really push to get more friends outside of your current group. Maybe they are having a hard time letting go of the "old Natalie," the boy you appeared to be at one point in time? I wonder if other activities with other people would help?
One more thing too. I've seen your youtube videos and your posts on here. I would have never thought of you as someone who wasn't a "leader" type. I would have thought you were exactly like you described when you encouraged your friends to go to the march. Didn't you say in a post that you weren't going to therapy too much these days? Maybe some therapy could help pull you out of this slump you are in? You have been really strong before, like I said, I've seen the posts and stuff, you definitely have a strong will about you, especially in light of all that you have been through.
Stay strong Natalie, I'm pulling for you and I know everyone else is too. What a great feeling it will be when you can look in the mirror and see and feel the Natalie that WE all see and feel every day! Take care, Meghan
Um, actually my friends accept my transition -- they just forget that I used to be a boy. But thanks for what you said.
I think I might of wrote the story wrong -- my friend "forgot" that I used to be a boy. So, it's a good thing, I think.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:39:31 PM
Quote from: shanetastic on September 17, 2007, 01:48:41 AM
Can I try to speak some words of encouragement. . . First off. I think need to try to realize how lucky you are. Sure, I bet people tell you this ALL the time, but just try to let it sink in for a second here. How many people get as far as you and make it work as perfectly as you at your age? From what I read and from what I see, it seems as if your life is awesome. You have a ton of friends, most like you unconditionally and will no matter what.
Sure, everyone looks at themselves from time to time with self doubt and hate, but it happens, that's life. Be happy for what you have, I know this is almost impossible at times, but try thinking about it. It seems like you have a life that you finally enjoy and that you have tried to obtain for years on end. Now that you there, try to be happy that you made it this far. Heck, I'm still stuck being a male for the time being, be happy your female I say
Everyone self judges themselves on looks and sets impossible goals at one point also, I think. Just think, your a lot luckier than most of the other people that have transitioned and turn out like massacres. Again though, I understand that it's going to be hard to accept and understand when your emotions are telling you otherwise all the time. I feel the exact same way as you sometimes. I know, the feelings SUCK, like really really badly. . . I would do anything for them to go away. But then, another day comes, a brighter sun shines, and the day begins again and everything is happy and normal again.
This was sort of a rant on my part, so I'm sorry. Just try to recognize that you are lucky and blessed for everything you have in your life. Sure, you probably have imperfections, who doesn't? I'm super tall and have huge hands and pretty big feet here. But whatever I think, hopefully it won't effect me when I get to your stage of transition, and if it does I'll just have to learn to be happy the way I am. Just try to accept yourself, you have a whole great life ahead of you, and things will always get and be better.
thnx. I'm trying to realize how lucky I am. I do, most of the time, but it's just been in the last while where I've felt that I couldn't look my self in the mirror.
Today, I went shopping and got some new clothes. I'm feeling better with new clothes. I know that sounds superficial, but, I don't know, some how new clothes has helped me feel a bit better today.
I also had my voice therpay lesson, which also helped me because I can see how my voice can improve and I have a direction now. My voice was pretty andrgonous when I went it, but she showed me how use my voice and by the end of the session my pitch was up to 196 and I sounded a lot better. I have a bunch of things to practice and eventually my voice will go from sounding andro-female to female-female. She let me listen to the recordings through the session to so I could see how I could do it. It helped.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: funnygrl on September 17, 2007, 03:23:20 AM
Going out on a limb here, hope you won't mind me joining in for 2 cents. I just started here last week, I'm still very male looking and 37 y/o to boot wondering how is this all going to work out and I'm sorry to say (here come the boo's and stuff) will I "pass" as I begin the changes (mtf). I have a lot of weight to lose, so I start there obviously and as I do I try to "visualize" what I want to look like. I would love to look like my picture above left...maybe minus the teeth, and maybe the blood...maybe.
Sounds like your "passing" great. Sounds like your young too, great. I haven't even started HRT yet or even gotten to a counselor. Trying to stay positive during this time has been VERY difficult for me, so I completely understand where your coming from. I can relate, very seriously to everything in your post. I feel very ugly and I'm definately dressing or wearing any make up right now...WAY WAY WAY TOO EARLY FOR THAT.
Make a mental picture of what you want to look like, realistically, focus. I do this and it keeps the sometimes insurmountable depression away at least long enough for me to get 45 min. exercise in and inspire my proper meal planning...and damit if I'm not victoria secret sexy by 39 then!!!...well...I guess keep going till I can.
Hope I helped in some small way. For what it's worth.
Thnx. I'll try to do that. I know you'll do really well, too.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Emelye on September 17, 2007, 04:58:49 AM
I think everyone goes through periods of self-doubt, Natalie, not just trans people.
And I think trans people just come to it a little more easily because of the social negativity we have absorbed over the years we spent in the closet. So, I think what you're going through is natural and understandable.
When I go out into the world, I seem to pass pretty much all the time. Often I can't, for the life of me, figure out how the heck it happens. I look at myself and see that old face staring at me and I can't imagine how I'm "fooling" the world. But I'm passing, they're getting who I really am!
I think this self-doubt is largely composed of remnants of the poor self-esteem, the self-loathing in some cases, that so many trans people develop through their time in the closet. So when the doubts begin to gnaw at me I try to realize that the reality is not what I'm seeing in myself, but what others can see in me without the subjective haze of past suffering skewing their interpretation.
When I remember that, I feel better. I hope you will too, real soon.
hugs & smiles
Emelye
Thnx. Yeah, I think you're right -- a lot of what I'm feeling is years and years a by-product of how I used to treat myself. It's not easy to switch off. I've been doing better, but there are times when it all comes back. I used to have no friends. I used to hurt myself (used to be a cutter). I've tried to take my own life on a few occasions. I'm no where near those points now, but at the same time I think it's going to take a long time to recover.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:48:10 PM
Quote from: Tara on September 17, 2007, 05:14:27 AM
It seems so often that profound distortions in how we see ourselves is a part of being trans. I have a pretty good grasp of all the rest of my trans-ness, or so I think, then my body distortion issues raises it's head, and it's all over. That is the big enchilada for me. I have no idea what I truly truly look like beyond all my distortions. I use it as my prime driver to keep me at the business of figuring out myself and my life.
My 2 cents for you is to cut yourself a lot of slack. Realize that you have distorted self image, and to treat other's views of you with some respect. Maybe they have valid points. Maybe you can even take compliments, and feel that they may be real!
Namaste, Tara
Thnx. I'll try to do that and cut myself slack. I know that what I see isn't what other people see. It's just hard sometimes to not be so self-critical (ironically, months before I made a vlog about that, LOL).
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:49:36 PM
Quote from: Steph on September 17, 2007, 06:39:47 AM
I think that it's safe to say that we have all experienced the issues you are experiencing. Self doubt is almost a natural emotion not just for those who are trans but in many of anyone's day to day experiences. I know that I myself went through this a few years back. It didn't last long but suffice it to say that it was very troublesome. Even at work I can experience days when I question myself and the way that I'm performing my job, question my teaching abilities. But the good news is that it does pass.
Instead of focusing on the negative, try focusing on the positive as dwelling on our short comings, (and we all have them to a degree) will drag you down, leaving you miserable and unhappy.
If you find the group of friends or acquaintances are the cause of these feelings or are contributing to them, then one might consider distancing themselves from this group. I'm not saying that you should live in isolation but put yourself in a more positive environment.
You may even want to try something new as often the cause of our misery is the old falling into a rut routine; you know the "same old, same old" type of thing. Creating new challenges for our selves can be refreshing and often very rewarding. Some of these can be new hobbies, taking a course such as cosmetics or esthetics, etc. Trying a new fashion style, new hair styles are also simple ways of achieving this. And of course if you are not doing this already you may even start a fitness program or change the one that you have.
The key is to work your way out of this as you are the only one that can do this, and yes it can be hard, it is very easy to feel sorry for ourselves, and all the "You go girls", "You rock girl" etc., etc., won't change anything. It can be tough be it can be done.
Steph
Thnx, Steph. I'll try to focus on the positive things about me. And *sigh* I can't believe I made my friends sound horrible when they are family to me. They usually encourage me and are there for me when ever I need them. It's not that my friend "forgot" that I was a girl, but "forgot" that I was a boy and transitioned into a girl.
As for other things, I got new clothes today and I've also got a two friends that are going to give me a make over. I'm going to get my hair done by my friend who owns her own Salon, and my other friend (a professional make-up artist and fashion designer) is going to do my make up and show me all kinds of tricks and give me a bunch of tips. I feel pretty lucky to have friends like this.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:53:57 PM
Quote from: charlotteNH on September 17, 2007, 09:59:14 AM
Wow talk about feeling how i am feeling at the moment. I get validation constantly on Youtube and from friends when I go out. Women who know say I look so natural.
No matter what I feel like utter crap lol. I think "Don't they see my brow ridge?" or "My feet are huge how do they not know?!" No amount of validation makes me feel any different. I do have my good days but they are fewer and farther between.
I hope these feelings stop sometime lol.
Charlotte
I know what you mean, Charlotte. We totally relate.
(And yay! I'm one of those friends on Youtube. LOL) I hope these feelings stop for the both of us.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:55:17 PM
Quote from: redfish on September 17, 2007, 10:11:11 AM
I think like looks are important to some degree, but sometimes people end up caring about them too much.
Let's say, despite all the evidence, someone might think you look not attractive or a bit too masculine - why does it matter?
Eventually the initial superficiality of transition needs to be cast aside in order for real life to continue once again unhindered.
Okay, thnx. Although, I live my life normally -- it's not like I hide under a rock or anything like that. I've got a pretty active life style.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:56:32 PM
Quote from: Lisbeth on September 17, 2007, 10:28:16 AM
Quote from: gothique11 on September 17, 2007, 12:48:22 AM
What's wrong with me? I don't want to think like this. I don't want to be self-destructive. I just don't know what's wrong with me, why don't I see myself the way others see me?
There is nothing wrong with you, Natalie. It is perfectly normal to go through times like this. It takes time to shed the negative self-image and self-doubt. Just keep listening to the positive messages people are giving you, and in time it will pass.
Thnx. I'm glad to know that I'm normal, and that things are going to be alright. I think that my negative self-image is slowly going away. Like I mentioned to someone else, I was pretty bad and down on myself for year and years. A large chunk of my life was spent going from hospital to home, and back again. The good thing is that I'm far from that now, and that it's no where near as bad as it was before.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 09:59:00 PM
Quote from: Kate on September 17, 2007, 10:57:33 AM
You might be something of a victim of your own success, and don't feel you *deserve* the wonderful validation you've been receiving. It reminds me of "Survivor's Guilt," where the lone survivor can't help wonder WHY ME? and ends up being self-destructive, at least in thought. I keep wondering this about myself too: it's kinda like if other people don't see us as ugly, WE have to do it for them.
~Kate~
Yes, I have survivor's guilt. And yes, I don't feel that I deserve this validation. I know I have this. I help out a lot of other people, including trans people. I'm currently helping a trans girl who just came out and it has been a lot of work. People look up to me for some strange reason, when I don't really feel that one should. I have friends who've been in transition much longer than me, and those who have been the same time as me or less. I see a difference in how they are treated when I'm with them compared to how I'm treated when I'm alone or with a group of non-trans people. It's a different world. I see how much work they put into it and I see how much they hurt everyday. I some how feel like i cheated and got a way with something. They say I'm lucky, of course, but some how I don't believe that I deserve to be "lucky." I don't know why I feel this way -- but then my whole life has been a nightmare, and some how I'm not sure how to function outside of the nightmare.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: Jaynatopia on September 17, 2007, 11:39:40 AM
I think that feeling awkward and critical of yourself is pretty normal really. It is not uncommon for women to have some body dysmorphic feelings. I think it could be a mixture of hormonal, struggling with the remnant self image of pre-transition, etc. I think in all it is usually not as bad as we think or feel it is.
Thnx, it could be all of those things.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 10:04:12 PM
Quote from: Jessie_Heart on September 17, 2007, 12:12:34 PM
for everyone with this same issue I hope this helps some.
I am in the early stages of transisition I have been on herbal based hormones for a year and a half and I go through the looking in the mirror alot and studying myself for flaws. I have brought my concerns up to my wife and her responce made me feel some better (in a wierd way). she told me that she knew I was truely a woman because how overly concerned with my looks as I am. she said that all the girls in high school annoyed her with this. so weather or not I would believe I looked like an attractive woman no metter how many times she told me I did. she said I can for sure believe that I act like some prom queen primping in the mirror looking for flaws she says that I annoy her with it as much as the girls in highschool did (by the way my wife is not extremely feminine and she doesn't want to be). so now every time I am standing there looking at myself and checking all the reasons I don't think I "pass" it makes me smile to think that while I am downing myself because I don't think I look like a woman I am acting more like a true woman than I ever thought possible.
I hope this makes sense I do tend to ramble on!!
Thnx for the ramble, it was good to hear. I know a lot of women who are like this too. I guess this is part of being a woman, too. And, really, if I'm honest not all of the thoughts are about how "guy" like I look, but how fat I look or that my hair sux or that my clothes are ick, etc, etc.
Posted on: September 17, 2007, 10:06:40 PM
And, oh, I should proof read stuff when I write. *sigh* I re-read the friend story and I can see how people thought that I was saying that my friend didn't think I was a girl -- it's the opposite, he forgot that I was a boy and transitioning. So, he was acting as if I was always a girl, in other words. If he thought I was a boy, he'd be insane.
Another weird validation that my sorta-girlfriend gave me. She slept with this guy a couple weeks ago, and she came home and said, "You know what makes you a girl, because you don't act like a guy in bed." Yeah, we have a weird relationship. We sorta separated, well opened up the relationship.
