Now that I'm sober most of the time I find myself flipping masculine quite often. When I'm really in guy mode, I'm very angry about a lot of things, though mainly that women are attracted to guys that are everything I'm not...macho, don't care about their appearance, misogynistic, work with their hands, opinionated, I could go on and on. Why don't women like someone like me? Teenage girls did, but women over 25 or so like the stupid men, and now that I'm older women under 25 don't want me either.

Yeah, I've really went crazy trying to figure out my issues, but really it all comes down to this. I don't want SRS, I want a sex life again. I sometimes think I've been exploring this so that my sex drive would go away, but I don't really want it to. I want lots of girlfriends, not to make myself so I'll probably never have one again.

I'm still a veronicagirl, and I am polyamorous and very much still a feminine person in a masculine body presenting slightly androgynous. My issues really aren't with myself, they are with society. Now that I'm sober, I remember why I started drinking so much, and it wasn't that I'm trans, although that sort of came out while I was drunk.

So did you feel that you were drinking your frustrations away?  It's confronting when you stop and remember why you used to drink to forget.

You seem to have reached an understanding of yourself, and of your issues with society.  Meeting people for the purpose of having a relationship is hard at the best of times, and feeling ineligible makes it feel worse.  A few thought on my side:

I believe your assumption that women over 25 only want stupid men is untrue.  Is it more that you are only attracted to the sort of woman that is attracted to that sort of man?  Or is it more the social circle that you are involved in?

Loneliness can make one desperate and starved for affection, leading to looking for any hook up possible, even if the people in question may have values completely different to your own.

Don't forget, you have your own worth and value - someone out there will appreciate you for who nd what you are, it's a matter of persisting till you find that person.

Sorry if that didn't help at all...

I can relate in regards to drinking due to society. My asexuality and lack of ability to perform in the bedroom caused me to start drinking heavily.

My issues with my asexuality were because society put those rules onto me, "You MUST orgasm during sex otherwise you're not normal", "You MUST have sex with your partner whenever she wants it.", "If you cannot orgasm from sex, you must not truly love your partner." The partners I dated also held these views that society imprinted into them as what is expected to be the norm. It's unrealistic, it creates tension and drama in relationships where there shouldn't be. Once I realized the problem didn't reside with me, but in fact society itself, I stopped drinking.

I don't think it's fair to lump all women into one category as those who only like macho jerks or "bad boy" types. In fact, the situation you describe sounds awfully close to the "friendzone" scenario in terms of, "Why don't women date me? I'm nice and completely the opposite of all those jerks!" If women are noticing that you hold this viewpoint and hold resentment towards women in general because you perceive them to be dating jerks over "nice guys" like yourself, they will run miles away from you. If you drop the viewpoint and resentment, I think you might be pleasantly surprised by how a change in attitude changes the way people approach you.   

Having SRS won't necessarily kill your sex drive but it will remove the capacity to have sex with a woman as a man - is that what you are worried about perhaps?

If the trans came out while you were drunk, maybe don't be so quick to dismiss it? After all, what comes out honestly when one is drunk is most of the time, is usually the truth.

That being said, it's wonderful that you have made strides regardless. Don't stop there - keep going! Self-awareness is healthy! 

are you angry because women are (seemingly) only interested in the type of man that you can't be, or because you can't be the type of guy that they're interested in? or is it that you wish there was a woman out there who could see you as who you really are (which might not even be a man), and love you as that person, but can't even try to hope that you'll ever find someone like that?

issues aren't only with society. they're also about how you handle society and yourself. blaming society won't really help in the long run, you'll still have to find out how to coexist with the people who make up society, in a way that feels right for you.

Are you finding out that the people who frequent the bars are not a good representation of people in general?
The women you encounter while making the rounds of bars are frequently as you describe them, a shame really.
They have their own kinds of problems and it's easy to put those problems on yourself.
I know well the people who are the 'bar flies', the games they play.
It's not reality, it's only the bar scene, the need to find others, yet you will very rarely find anyone other than those who have chosen to leave reality for the perceived reality of being less than sober, settling for the same people, the same set-ups that you will find only in that kind of a situation.

Stay sober, the longer you do, the more you will realize that hanging out in bars will only lead you to others in bars wishing to escape life as well.
If being drunk wasn't such a problem, then everyone would be constantly drunk, because who doesn't like to find relief from the pressures that life has for us.

I used to be so involved and good at bar hopping that I knew who would be at which bar, which circle of people I was going to turn to next to 'find' the right people I wanted in my life.
Waking up and realizing that they were always the same people, even though they went by different names and looked different, was when I stopped searching for my life with a drink or beer in front of me.
It took time to develop a different approach to life, one that has so much more variety and others who's lives I had true respect for, not just another story that was like the same story I had heard over and over, but simply different in the way it was told, not the theme, which turned out to always be the same.

Life as a sober person after being basically drunk most of the time was a shock at first, but it didn't take long to find out that it really is only a few people who where doing the same as as I was, bar hopping and partying in the hope of finding something better.

Another thing I found out, was that drinking diminishes your ability to have good sex, diminishes your performance and that drinking even more does even more damage.
It took time and exercise more than 12 oz curls, eating right and just becoming more healthy in general to realize how much more there really is and how easy it is to find those things you're looking for that drinking always seems to promise, yet never really has other than the illusion it is there.
Drinking is a trick when done in excess, you tell yourself the lies that those who are doing the same tell each other to justify staying still in life, rather than moving forward.

By not drinking, staying sober, the real possibilities eventually started to show themselves to me, and I know this is true for anyone who manages to move away from it and face the simple challenges that we all face and are able to move through, to move forward to find what we are looking for.
It doesn't exist in that liquid magic elixir, there is no such thing, drinking is nothing more than the delusion that things are better, but look at just how they are better... they are always the same, never changing, just the illusion that someday, somehow they will be.

Stay sober, a tough thing to do for some, but the rewards in life you're looking for will become apparent, they always do.
Ativan

Quote from: Taka on August 04, 2014, 05:45:38 AM
are you angry because women are (seemingly) only interested in the type of man that you can't be, or because you can't be the type of guy that they're interested in? or is it that you wish there was a woman out there who could see you as who you really are (which might not even be a man), and love you as that person, but can't even try to hope that you'll ever find someone like that?

issues aren't only with society. they're also about how you handle society and yourself. blaming society won't really help in the long run, you'll still have to find out how to coexist with the people who make up society, in a way that feels right for you.

I don't know that I really like being in a relationship period, I am not asexual. What I did like about clubbing was that there was always the chance a one night stand might happen. That's all I really want or need as far as sexuality goes. It does bother me that this would easy if I were FAAB, but women aren't having one night stands with themselves. I guess I feel like by giving up drinking, I give up my only chances at getting what I want.

I'm not sure what sort of longer term relationship I would be open to at this point, I never wanted the whole husband/wife thing, or anything like that. I don't know that the wife/wife thing or me being the wife is any better. I don't really like roommates.

I am making a few generalizations though about women, and I do hate to do that.

So is it more that you wanted that physical contact, rather than trying to find someone to connect with on a personal level?

You say that you don't feel like you need a life partner, yet you have the need to have the itch scratched on occasion so to speak.  Yet when you do so, your opinion of the social circle you interact with to do so isn't high.

Would it be possible for you to increase the social circle you deal with?  Doing so risks stepping outside of what you are used to and may not necessarily give you what you want, but it's a break from your normal routine.

I just don't really see how I can be in longer term relationship since I'm not gender static, and most people are. I don't always want to be the girl, but it seems like most people don't get that, and want me to always be the guy or always be the girl, if I let them know that I feel that way sometimes. Additionally, people in general take relationships far too seriously, I just don't see the point in getting all worked up about anyone. It just ends up making you feel bad. I'm not saying I'm incapable of love, I've been in love several times, and i the end,it was painful, but the sex was good, but not any better than with a stranger. Why anyone wants anything more than sex after having their heart broken that first time is beyond me...

there are girls who'd rather be part of a harem, so that they can just tell the guy to go to one of the other girls when she doesn't feel like it. there are gay people who switch, and it's even fairly common. gender matters little in bdsm. sadomasochist is a word. i don't think there was ever a rule that you have to live in the same house as someone you're in a relationship with. very little in human society is static. circles can be found where the norm is something different than in society as a whole.

are you really sure your issues are with society? because in your later posts, it sounds more like you're rejecting the small part of society that you know, and limiting your own possibilities to find something really good (which might not be a relationship in any traditional sense).

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on August 05, 2014, 10:34:05 PM
I just don't really see how I can be in longer term relationship since I'm not gender static, and most people are. I don't always want to be the girl, but it seems like most people don't get that, and want me to always be the guy or always be the girl, if I let them know that I feel that way sometimes. Additionally, people in general take relationships far too seriously, I just don't see the point in getting all worked up about anyone. It just ends up making you feel bad. I'm not saying I'm incapable of love, I've been in love several times, and i the end,it was painful, but the sex was good, but not any better than with a stranger. Why anyone wants anything more than sex after having their heart broken that first time is beyond me...

25 years ago, if I had been a member here, I could've written that word for word.
I spent a good ten years getting over a relationship that left me horribly depressed.
But I did have my special people, all different in ways that made each of them desirable, yet a relationship was out of the question, even though most of them wanted one.
I turned that idea down, I couldn't give any of them up for another.
I even went so far as to tell each one of them about the others and even had them lined up for certain days of the week.
I was making really good money, had most everything I wanted, even lived in a ridiculously expensive house that most people would be pretty envious of.
I still had all the nagging thoughts about who I was, felt like I needed to make a decision about that and about where I was going in life.
I couldn't really find a reason to change any of it.
But I wasn't really all that happy.
I had a really high end sales job that kept me in touch with some very wealthy people, some celebrities, always a place to go, people to visit and some to have a one night stand with.
I was known for some of the crazy stuff I did back then within the circles of all those people and their friends.
It was a time I could do most anything I wanted, and did, because I could.
I knew my limits for most of these things and pushed them pretty much constantly, just to be able to feel something.
I had no resources to go to and didn't even really try to find them to straighten myself out.
I thought I needed to but just didn't want to let go of the lifestyle.

But I had things that needed to be resolved from times even before that, I was running away from them, they felt like they were always chasing me down, always getting closer.
I finally stopped all of it, changed course, worked for myself, tried to stay in a relationship, even had a couple kids.
But I was never really happy, other than the joy my children brought me.
All the issues I had and put off, all the things that were wrong finally caught up with me and I had a major breakdown that lasted for years.
It was a long slow road back, one that I had to leave all of that behind.
It was the constant state of denial about a lot of things.
I had to face them all, one at a time, the worst would put me into even more breakdowns when I did try to face them.
It took a long time, and I still have the worst ones chasing me, always getting closer.

I don't have an answer to any of this, I just got lucky, like always.
It's been a long intensive five years of therapy and psychologists.
Breakthrough's come and I feel a lot better about myself, realize that those things chasing me were nothing more than myself, the things I didn't want to face.
It's still a battle on some days and I struggle pretty hard with them, I have to step away from them at times to catch my breath and then continue on, having to face those things over and over until I win, until I feel like I have control over them.
It's a long hard tough road for some of them.

I wish I had done something about them decades ago... It's hard to figure out which aren't really a problem and it's OK to just face them and accept that they are all right, others are to hard to bear most times and I find myself just not able to really move past them, I might never do that.
But even that realization is better than ignoring them.
So I suppose that's all I know, that I should have done that years and years ago, I might have ended up better off in the long run, but I really don't know, it's just the feeling I get, that I could have taken better care of myself.
The sooner faced, those things that were always seeming to be getting closer, the things I denied, I should have faced them down way back when.
I just didn't have anyone who would tell me I should have, I didn't look for the ways to do that, I chose to always try and stay ahead of them.
I'm good at doing that, but they did chase me down, some of them, most of them in due time.
I'm still trying to get through some.
I don't really know if things would have been better or worse by doing that, facing them instead of staying ahead of them.
I like to think about all the good times I had and ignore the worst, but on the bad days I know and think about the 'should have, could have' and try to figure it out.

I just know that in finally facing them and conquering the fears of them, I've become so much better than when I hadn't.
Maybe it was just my time to do it, I can't really say.
I do think we should turn and face our demons when they interfere with the quality of life we have.
But when we do that is going to be different for each and every person.
I just know it's damn hard to do.
Ativan

ativan. even if there were someone in your past who'd told you that there are things you need to face, it would only have helped if you wished to change. there isn't much point in speculating about how your current life could have been if you made different choices. we all made the choices we did, and hopefully most of them were made because that's what felt right to us at the time.

i'm still wondering whether some of my past decisions were mistakes, but when i think about it, all of them were the right choice when i made those choices, and they're only viewed as mistakes by society. i can't keep letting society dictate what i should feel guilty over, and i can't keep blaming myself for having been a little soft-hearted at my own expense. i wouldn't make the same choices now, but that's just because i and my life have changed since then, and there are other things i see as more important now. hindsight isn't something to be trusted too much, because it only tells you what choice you would have made in your current situation with your current knowledge, and almost completely disregards the actual picture you saw when you made a decision.

like, asking yourself why you didn't transition before, is kind of pointless, as you can't know whether that was the right decision until you've actually gone and tried it. most things in life are like that, you'll only know after the fact, wo it's better to go easy on yourself and forgive decisions based on less knowledge than you have now.

(talking to myself towards the end, it seems)

I am hard on myself, I know I am, it's one of my downfalls.
I second guess at things that don't need it at times.
I do look back and I know better than to think it could have, should have been different.
I still see my therapist weekly, and this is a part of it.
I still have some things that are chasing me, always getting closer.
I grow stronger all the time. There are events that here is not the place for me to talk about.
I'm taking them on, always questioning just how they happened, why I did things in the ways that i did.
I learn from those questions, but I also make the mistake of thinking I should have done things different.
But then I learn from that as well. Life has had some interesting twists and turns for me.
I take risks just to take them, push my boundaries, shove that edge of my comfort zone.
I have a need to do that, it is my true addiction, to move past that which is not the normal way to do things.
An adrenaline junkie, an old one at that. But it isn't going to end.
Even if I end up having to go at it one more time, one more new adventure, in a wheelchair and have someone push when I tell hem to, I'll do it.
I hope it doesn't come down to that, I still have the ability to do the things I want, very little holds me back.
Not even the pain from past injuries. I push that as well. My need has done nothing but grow.
One more time, something new.
Maybe just a new way to do something that I have done in the past but I have found a different way to make it new again...
I will still look back just before it's all said and done and wonder if it was the right thing to do.
I know it will be. Deep down it always is.
Ativan

Quote from: Taka on August 06, 2014, 06:08:11 AM
there are girls who'd rather be part of a harem, so that they can just tell the guy to go to one of the other girls when she doesn't feel like it. there are gay people who switch, and it's even fairly common. gender matters little in bdsm. sadomasochist is a word. i don't think there was ever a rule that you have to live in the same house as someone you're in a relationship with. very little in human society is static. circles can be found where the norm is something different than in society as a whole.

are you really sure your issues are with society? because in your later posts, it sounds more like you're rejecting the small part of society that you know, and limiting your own possibilities to find something really good (which might not be a relationship in any traditional sense).

Switching isn't liked by most in bdsm. I don't think I can be in bdsm relationship, it just reminds me too much of people going me a hard time and wanting to hurt me for being a "sissy". It seems the opposite of trans pride to be involved in something like that. I know there's more to it that just that, but there is that.

The one kind of longer term relationship I can do is friends with benefits, yeah, sometimes it leads to friends without benefits, or friends who never had benefits, but that's not always bad, if the friendship is real. The concept sometimes gets a bad rap unfortunately because some people use the term for something other than true friendship.

I do have some issues with society, though I also made some poor choices, making that decision to start drinking everyday being near the top of the list. I also made a huge mistake in distancing myself from all my friends, and more importantly, from the idea of making friends.

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on August 07, 2014, 08:24:31 PM

I do have some issues with society, though I also made some poor choices, making that decision to start drinking everyday being near the top of the list. I also made a huge mistake in distancing myself from all my friends, and more importantly, from the idea of making friends.

Veronica, I feel you're honest with yourself here.

The question now is, knowing this, do you want to do something about it? Some of your posts seem to indicate dissatisfaction with the way things are in your personal life, but that is common to us all.  Knowing what you don't like with your life and doing something about it are separate issues altogether.

Well Veronica, you sure are getting some input aren't you?

I remember when sober looking into the mirror 3 months in and saying "Who the heck is that?".  I didn't know.  It has taken a long time to find out, and I am still learning.

When I wasn't sober, my choices were..... whatever was available.  Usually in a gay bar.  Played Russian roulette and got sober before the chamber came up and I stopped it.

I walked in on my fiancé right after she had finished screwing someone, crawled into a bottle and stayed there for another 5 years.  The hurt is still there, but my wife that is my love of my life has stayed through transition.. it took a long time for me to even think about that other girl, I still have an iron curtain over those days.. my wife is completely different from the manufactured image I had of the perfect woman.  But I was desperate for a relationship, and when I got it, my entire world was changed to meet her needs, including hiding being trans.  And she turned out to be the perfect woman for me, although there are trade offs.  Well worth it too.

But there comes a moment of truth for us, whether its booze or our bodies.

I have no ability to be physically a performing male in bed, yes I know a trick or two from a caring member of the forum that would raise the flag again, but reality is that my wife cannot handle physically making love to a half male half female body.  What we have instead is intimacy and its priceless.  Physical intimacy.

But the thing of holding at arms length etc... one classic question is - is it because it would interfere with your drinking?  A lurking notion in the back of the mind?  I have heard that before, it may be off the mark for you though.  But booze is a very jealous lover indeed.

There's always a compatible somebody to your true sexual polarities and self expression.  Environments may play a part in helping that one find you.  You may find yourself pinned to a wall somewhere getting ravaged, if that is what you like (I would), or you may find something else, but sober, you have far better choices.  Besides, you wont throw up on her boobs.

Kidding.

Blessings and be well.  Hope it helps somehow.  Craving sucks, sugar helps calm it if you hit it, hard candy in the pocket is a good idea.  The body learns to metabolize booze instead of food, sugars the quickest out.

And its a just now thing.  Just not drink right now.  Just put it off, distract yourself.

Blessings.

Quote from: Satinjoy on August 08, 2014, 05:08:23 PM

Blessings and be well.  Hope it helps somehow.  Craving sucks, sugar helps calm it if you hit it, hard candy in the pocket is a good idea.  The body learns to metabolize booze instead of food, sugars the quickest out.

And its a just now thing.  Just not drink right now.  Just put it off, distract yourself.

Blessings.

Thanks, it actually did help, I read this last evening and managed to not drink at all last night. All I had was breath mints, I didn't want to go to a convenience store to buy candy because I thought I might buy beer instead, though they seemed to help. I'll keep both of these in mind.

Sugar free gum!
Tastes sweet, fools the body. 

Candy calories....yoweeee

There are other tricks and warnings.  I did not know one of the withdrawl symptoms was insomnia.  Had to find out best thing to do was just read.

There is a book called  "Living Sober" it is AA material. It could be titled "practical booze battling strategy".

The book is excellent.  Suggest you grab it.  Nothing in there could possibly be anything but helpful.

Blessings