Quote from: mrs izzy on August 03, 2014, 10:15:22 AM
Can not comment on the Progesterone cream. I use Premarin vaginal cream. It has helped a lot i feel.

I use it about 1x a week now and if i feel the need maybe 2 x. Mostly 1x is enough to keep it happy and healthy.

Hope someone can comment on the Progesterone, would be nice for the old memory banks.

For me, izzy, and remember I am only 7 weeks into full dose HRT, I have had great results so far with estradiol valerate (a pure form of estrogen) and micronized progesterone which is also a pure form of progesterone.

I feel that the more synthetic formats such as premarin, ethynyl estradiol, and provera carry side effect risks that I consider to be far too dangerous for me.

If it would help, and I don't presume to be more expert than you because you are much further along this female journey than I am, but here is some relevant info from an MD posted on the Internet...

QUOTE
Oral medroxyprogesterone, the most commonly used product, is very inexpensive, but it has the disadvantage of counteracting some of the beneficial effects of estrogen on blood lipids. Some people find that it causes depression or mental irritability. The recently published Women's Health Initiative study has also documented an increased incidence of adverse complications in women taking medroxyprogesterone in combination with conjugated estrogens for hormone replacement; this increased incidence of adverse complications was not found with conjugated estrogens alone. Micronized progesterone is a reasonable alternative in those who want to take a progestin. It does not counteract the beneficial effects of estrogen on blood lipids. But micronized progesterone is more expensive, and is often harder to obtain. When taken by mouth, it is partially metabolized to 5-alpha and 5-beta pregnenolone; these metabolites can act as natural tranquilizers, and may promote sleep. This effect may be desirable in patients who suffer from anxiety or insomnia.
UNQUOTE

Therefore, since you take Premarin, which is a conjugated estrogen (unlike estradiol valerate which is pure estrogren, such as what I take), you made get some side effects and drugs mixing effects that may not be desirable for you.

From everything I can tell, the pure forms such as 17 beta estradiol or estradiol valerate (which I take) and then for progesterone -- micronized progesterone or other pure form of progesterone -- either sublingually or patch or injected if done competently and correctly -- are the best bets, at least for me.  And maybe for you, too...

I don't know if micronized progesterone is easily available where you live.  It certainly is where I live.  The price here for it is medium (US$ 60 for a 15 day supply for me).

The micronized progesterone makes me feel euphoric, and in a state of almost constant happiness I can hardly believe it.  And my nipple development is impressive.  My breast development is still small, I just got female breasts 6 weeks in (about 5 days ago), yes they are small, but they are obvious, and female-shaped.

I was showing my breast and nipple development via webcam to a young transgirl friend who lives in another country from where I live, today, and she strongly ageed that my nipples are doing great, she agreed that my breasts are HERE NOW for sure though small but at least they are here for good, and she agreed that the shape of my small female breasts has a feminine base well-suited for immediate future growth.

I am over the moon in happiness, Izzy.

I think my breast and nipple growth is mostly due to the micronized progesterone, on very full dose.  Could your MD, endo, etc. arrange this for YOU?  Maybe it could help you, too, Izzy, and other girls (and developing girls) here.

Embraces,
Johanna.

Quote from: JohannaJohn on August 03, 2014, 03:44:23 PM
For me, izzy, and remember I am only 7 weeks into full dose HRT, I have had great results so far with estradiol valerate (a pure form of estrogen) and micronized progesterone which is also a pure form of progesterone.

I feel that the more synthetic formats such as premarin, ethynyl estradiol, and provera carry side effect risks that I consider to be far too dangerous for me.

If it would help, and I don't presume to be more expert than you because you are much further along this female journey than I am, but here is some relevant info from an MD posted on the Internet...

QUOTE
Oral medroxyprogesterone, the most commonly used product, is very inexpensive, but it has the disadvantage of counteracting some of the beneficial effects of estrogen on blood lipids. Some people find that it causes depression or mental irritability. The recently published Women's Health Initiative study has also documented an increased incidence of adverse complications in women taking medroxyprogesterone in combination with conjugated estrogens for hormone replacement; this increased incidence of adverse complications was not found with conjugated estrogens alone. Micronized progesterone is a reasonable alternative in those who want to take a progestin. It does not counteract the beneficial effects of estrogen on blood lipids. But micronized progesterone is more expensive, and is often harder to obtain. When taken by mouth, it is partially metabolized to 5-alpha and 5-beta pregnenolone; these metabolites can act as natural tranquilizers, and may promote sleep. This effect may be desirable in patients who suffer from anxiety or insomnia.
UNQUOTE

Therefore, since you take Premarin, which is a conjugated estrogen (unlike estradiol valerate which is pure estrogren, such as what I take), you made get some side effects and drugs mixing effects that may not be desirable for you.

From everything I can tell, the pure forms such as 17 beta estradiol or estradiol valerate (which I take) and then for progesterone -- micronized progesterone or other pure form of progesterone -- either sublingually or patch or injected if done competently and correctly -- are the best bets, at least for me.  And maybe for you, too...

I don't know if micronized progesterone is easily available where you live.  It certainly is where I live.  The price here for it is medium (US$ 60 for a 15 day supply for me).

The micronized progesterone makes me feel euphoric, and in a state of almost constant happiness I can hardly believe it.  And my nipple development is impressive.  My breast development is still small, I just got female breasts 6 weeks in (about 5 days ago), yes they are small, but they are obvious, and female-shaped.

I was showing my breast and nipple development via webcam to a young transgirl friend who lives in another country from where I live, today, and she strongly ageed that my nipples are doing great, she agreed that my breasts are HERE NOW for sure though small but at least they are here for good, and she agreed that the shape of my small female breasts has a feminine base well-suited for immediate future growth.

I am over the moon in happiness, Izzy.

I think my breast and nipple growth is mostly due to the micronized progesterone, on very full dose.  Could your MD, endo, etc. arrange this for YOU?  Maybe it could help you, too, Izzy, and other girls (and developing girls) here.

Embraces,
Johanna.

Sorry Johanna if you are little confused about me.

First off if you looked at what i wrote i use premarin vaginally. That means i am done, finished or as i put it.... i am snipped, stitched and dusted.

Also Premarin if you look is make from natural pregnant mare urine. So i would say that's as close to organic as one can get.

It is used for women to help add softness and wetness to there vaginas.

Premarin vaginally is only local adsorbed so it has no effect on my blood levels.

I only take estrogen now to help control the night sweats.

I have been on HRT since 1999 and i have done the whole basket of hrt over these years.

I have BA done in 05 so i have no need to worry about breasts. They are just there.

I've used progesterone cream.  If I remember correctly it should be used per application.  Directions for women indicated applying once or twice daily.  While I used it I noticed some changes in how my breasts felt, no pain but just a sensation that something was happening.  My nipples were often more erect while using it, really.  On the down side, I was applying twice daily.  That's too much if T levels are still high.  I experienced more hair growth on my chest, so it was too soon for me to use P.  Now my T is lower and I'm on spiro.  I'm starting to apply the p again once daily each morning.  I'll see what happens.  I will say that the sensations I felt before are happening again within my breasts.  I just haven't seen enough recent studies on the use of p for transsexuals.  The medical profession really is split on its value or usefulness for us.  My own research on it indicates the need for p in females early in puberty for breast development.  What I do know, based on my own usage, is that p does cause changes to my body (breasts and to my dismay chest hair growth).  Anyway, I'll try to remember to post any noticeable results to my single dose usage.  Hugs.


Removed dosage amount. TOS #8

I think, in my case, increasing ESTRADIOL, the strongest of the three natural estrogens (ESTRIOL is the weakest) and taking it by means of intramuscular injection helped SIGNIFICANTLY with making vagina more elastic, smooth (I was amazed actually at changes, didn't expect it), makes things more exciting too. 

Perhaps you could ask for the Estrace cream instead that contains estradiol and not estriol which is a very weak estrogen...hopefully, your doctor will agree.

Quote from: KayXo on August 05, 2014, 11:11:19 AM
I think, in my case, increasing ESTRADIOL, the strongest of the three natural estrogens (ESTRIOL is the weakest) and taking it by means of intramuscular injection helped SIGNIFICANTLY with making vagina more elastic, smooth (I was amazed actually at changes, didn't expect it), makes things more exciting too. 

Perhaps you could ask for the Estrace cream instead that contains estradiol and not estriol which is a very weak estrogen...hopefully, your doctor will agree.

Good to know, my levels are pretty high via pellets. I'm only 8 months post op so hopefully  there's more excitement coming my way...

The Oestriol actually works quite well, I'm just curious about progesterone potentially meaning I could use less of it or not need it altogether. I'm not gonna lie, having a little bit of cream left in there all the time is a bit of a problem for inviting guests over for dinner.

LOL ok! Well, ask the doctor for some and if he agrees to prescribe some, hopefully, it will help, everyone reacts differently.

well so far my doctor is not recommending progesterone because of the supposed mood problems and other issues. But I am wondering if I eat some wild Mexican yams or buy my own progesterone cream and use it on my own would I be doing myself harm? So far shes against prescribing a pill for it but Do i really need it>

The yam or cream will barely do anything, don't waste your $$$ on them. As for progesterone causing mood problems, it depends on individual and she may be confusing effects of other progestogens called progestins such as medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera) that have more this tendency to cause mood disorders. Bio-progesterone can actually be quite soothing for some, and act as an anti-depressant, in contrast to other progestins because of its metabolite allopregnanolone. You should read up on the differences and show the information to your doctor. The molecules are different and their effects are, as a result, quite different too. It can make a huge difference for some, very positive, in terms of breast growth, skin texture, nails and mood.

Quote from: KayXo on August 06, 2014, 02:31:39 PM
The yam or cream will barely do anything, don't waste your $$$ on them. As for progesterone causing mood problems, it depends on individual and she may be confusing effects of other progestogens called progestins such as medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera) that have more this tendency to cause mood disorders. Bio-progesterone can actually be quite soothing for some, and act as an anti-depressant, in contrast to other progestins because of its metabolite allopregnanolone. You should read up on the differences and show the information to your doctor. The molecules are different and their effects are, as a result, quite different too. It can make a huge difference for some, very positive, in terms of breast growth, skin texture, nails and mood.

KayXo is correct.  It sounds to me like your doctor doesn't have the more up-to-date information we have had since, I dunno, about 2005 or 2008.  Provera form of progesterone has been clearly shown to cause problems.

I use micronized progesterone which is pure, and great for 7 weeks of HRT and I already have significant breast development and many other great results.

Micronized progesterone and other "pure" forms of P don't have these mood swing problems that Provera clearly has.

Maybe your doctor doesn't know about this.  But the recent evidence is obvious.

Get some more recent valid article and other info (google is great -- hint, hint) and hand them to your doctor.

If you doctor still doesn't agree, you might want to consider finding a doctor who has more recent up-to-date into about micronized progesterone and other "pure forms" of progesterone.  Provera does NOT fall into this great category, sorry.

Progesterone affects MY mood in part by making me feel in the sky with happiness....

Johanna.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on August 06, 2014, 02:18:00 PM
well so far my doctor is not recommending progesterone because of the supposed mood problems and other issues. But I am wondering if I eat some wild Mexican yams or buy my own progesterone cream and use it on my own would I be doing myself harm? So far shes against prescribing a pill for it but Do i really need it?

My docs were also concerned about progesterone worsening my depression, especially since January 2014 was very rough for me.

For two weeks I went looking for any studies that had found a link between Micronized Progesterone (ie: Prometrium) and depression and could not find any.  The only studies I found with such a link referred to Provera (which is not bio-identical).

So, after making sure that my wife & some of my friends were watching me closely, I started taking the Prometrium capsules on 30 Jan. 

5 days later, on 4 Feb, the depression from which I had suffered for over 30 years completely disappeared.  I am now 6 months depression-free. 

Maybe I just got extremely lucky.  I have never heard of anyone else getting this particular side-effect from Micronized Progesterone.

Quote from: TessaMarie on August 07, 2014, 02:07:54 AM
My docs were also concerned about progesterone worsening my depression, especially since January 2014 was very rough for me.

For two weeks I went looking for any studies that had found a link between Micronized Progesterone (ie: Prometrium) and depression and could not find any.  The only studies I found with such a link referred to Provera (which is not bio-identical).

So, after making sure that my wife & some of my friends were watching me closely, I started taking the Prometrium capsules on 30 Jan. 

5 days later, on 4 Feb, the depression from which I had suffered for over 30 years completely disappeared.  I am now 6 months depression-free. 

Maybe I just got extremely lucky.  I have never heard of anyone else getting this particular side-effect from Micronized Progesterone.

+1 applause for you Tessa Marie.  How great to hear that Micronized Progesterone finally solved your depression problem after 30 years, and that it is going on 6 months now.

Micronized progesterone has me in the sky with happiness 90% of the time, just 8 weeks into HRT.

Glad to here it has worked so well for you, too.

Big hugs,
Johanna.

Misspelling...that should read, "Glad to hear..."

Johanna.

I recently increased my progesterone and since the change, I do feel a significant improvement in my mood AND I look slimmer as well, maybe something to do with the fact that I have less appetite. I don't wake up depressed as I occasionally used to. I have more energy, I'm less worried about my looks and what others might think, just more easy going. My nipples are also more prominent than before, thicker, larger and touching them gets me a little aroused, first time ever in my life!

Quote from: KayXo on August 08, 2014, 08:31:51 AM
I recently increased my progesterone and since the change, I do feel a significant improvement in my mood AND I look slimmer as well, maybe something to do with the fact that I have less appetite. I don't wake up depressed as I occasionally used to. I have more energy, I'm less worried about my looks and what others might think, just more easy going. My nipples are also more prominent than before, thicker, larger and touching them gets me a little aroused, first time ever in my life!

Kay, I totally agree with you.  I think I love progesterone even more than estrogen.  I am quiet euphoric happy about 90% of the time, I too worry less about what others might think, I am calmer to handle almost any situation without worrying, I have super great nipples that are frequently "tingling" like they want to grow some more, or have a baby nurse them...

Johanna.

I began progesterone just a bit over 2 weeks ago. Already I am noticing more fullness in the breasts.

My endo has worked with trans folk since 1975 and while not having statistical data, he has developed therapies that work for him with the majority of his patients.

I am not aware of any in depth studies about the use of progesterone and transwomen. Everything about it seems to be transmitted as folklore and practical knowledge. Maybe someday this question will get answered.

Quote from: LizMarie on August 09, 2014, 11:27:14 AM
I began progesterone just a bit over 2 weeks ago. Already I am noticing more fullness in the breasts.

My endo has worked with trans folk since 1975 and while not having statistical data, he has developed therapies that work for him with the majority of his patients.

I am not aware of any in depth studies about the use of progesterone and transwomen. Everything about it seems to be transmitted as folklore and practical knowledge. Maybe someday this question will get answered.

I've been applying a dropper full of progesterone oil to my sun dried hair about once a week a few hours before my shower and shampoo, it might serve to counteract whatever dihydrotesterone that may be contributing to any hair loss I dunno, but it does make my hair softer and more manageable. Hopefully it doesn't promote any brain rot because I already have CRS. 

I wish I wasn't running out of mine. I feel crankier when I haven't got much left.

I love my Progesterone injections. I have not had one bad effect and the "girls" are going crazy with growth. No way I am giving it up ever. 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 09, 2014, 10:02:56 PM
I love my Progesterone injections. I have not had one bad effect and the "girls" are going crazy with growth. No way I am giving it up ever. 

Me neither, Jessica.  I want to take P for the rest of my life.  I feel euphoric happiness 90% of the time, and my boobies are small but real.  I will now need to have breast cancer exams for the rest of my life.  Wow, am I happy.

Johanna.

Interestingly, so far, hormone replacement therapy which included progesterone (bio-identical) has not been found to be associated with increased breast cancer incidence. Same with bio-identical estrogen or even non bio-identical in randomized controlled studies. This is very promising indeed for us and breast cancer incidence appears to be quite rare in transsexual women if one refers to the scientific literature although it could just be undereported, who knows?! It has also been found that pregnancy, a time when progesterone and estrogen levels are very high, was associated with a lesser likelihood of breast cancer in ciswomen. And finally, breast cancers tend to occur mostly in women who are older and who have less hormones...so perhaps, it is the decline in hormones that is responsible...I don't know, I'm just reporting what I have read...but it is very reassuring indeed, at least for me...But, more thorough investigation (and more studies) are needed before any definite conclusions can be made...just that so far, it's looking pretty good.