I don't like being called "white".  I mean, my skin is not even close to the same color as my walls, but I'm stuck with this label that isn't likely going away in my lifetime.  I have made my peace with it.

Unfortunately, "transsexual" isn't going away either. Is it a bit archaic?  Yes, in my opinion.  Maybe it will eventually lose favor like "->-bleeped-<-" has, but for now it's here to stay and there's nothing I can do about it.

"sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me"  An old old saying, and in my experience not true, words can and do hurt.  Being labeled as something you feel you are not does in fact hurt.  But on the other hand, meanings of words do fade in time or get changed.  Does it happen over night? no. But it does happen, a few years ago I wrote a paper for a sociology class about ->-bleeped-<- and how younger people (i.e. College age) view it. In my class at least 1/4 new of someone who identified as the opposite gender, and the majority felt it was that person's choice.  Just think of where things stood 20 years ago, if that same question was asked I would guess that half wouldn't know what I was talking about, and the other half would be disgusted.  If I had come out back then and said I wanted to transition I would have been ostracized and lost everyone in my life.  Now I have a 50/50 chance of my family accepting my decision.  Not the greatest odds but I'll take that chance.

What I'm trying to say in my rambling way is that in the next 20 years I believe most people will accept the fact that there are people who are born in the wrong gender.  Am I over-optimistic? Maybe, but I refuse to accept any other option.

If this post makes no sense I blame the triple shot of espresso I just had before I left work.   

Great! Now besides passing we have to worry about terms, Jeesh! Where will this madness end? 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 10, 2014, 08:36:43 PM
Great! Now besides passing we have to worry about terms, Jeesh! Where will this madness end? 

didn't someone say when hell freezes over

Quote from: Auroramarianna on August 10, 2014, 02:19:12 PM
The problem is not the word itself, to me. More like the negative stereotypes tied to it. Most people associate transsexualism to sexual deviancy, promiscuity and sex work. Being transsexual does not imply this at all. However I do not think we are better off throwing prostitutes or mentally ill people under the bus and shouting that we are not like them. We are othering other groups the same way people other us. We need to remind ourselves that many trans girls do sex work to survive as a last resort as well as prostitues in general. And, instead of just trying to dissociate the word from all the harsh realities that surround it, we just should just explain how the things are unrelated but there are indeed trans prostitues because they have no easier way to survive, which doesn't mean all tgirls are prostitutes. Only when we recognize these issues will they be addressed.

How would anyone be throwing prostitutes and the mentally ill under the bus? I am surrounded by the mentally ill in my own family, and I'll tell you and everyone else that the non-mentally ill are nothing like the mentally ill in so many ways that I'm not sure where to begin. And as far as "they [prostitute and sex workers] have no easier way to survive," no one ever said surviving was going to be easy.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on August 10, 2014, 02:55:55 PM
Why do we have to ban words because a few people have used them as insults?  I've never understood it.  What offends us isn't the word, it's the thought behind that word, and banning them isn't going to get us anywhere, it just lets us hide from the problem.

I think the problem is that a false impression of the TS or TG group, in general and for whatever reason, has been created.

Quote from: Susan522 on August 10, 2014, 04:10:50 PM
Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on Today at 03:28:16 pm

"    You know, I've sort of come to the conclusion that the two are entirely separate concepts.  Trans 101 is that sex and gender are different, albiet closely associated topics, right?  So can't someone feel the need to change their sex without changing their gender and vice versa?  It's how I identify-as transexual but also genderqueer.  I think we have a habit of turning against one another because each experience is different and we tend to lump everything together.

    Some people feel the need to change their body.  Some feel the need to change their gender.  The two are completely different in my opinion.  Both are valid.
"

BRAVO!  It seems that at least somebody has a clue.

Now I'm more confused than ever!

While I deeply value other people self-applying 'transsexual' for whichever reason matters to them, I prefer 'transgender' as an adjective for me if I'm forced to choose anything. I expect that's due to the personal definitions of sex and gender I use since I can't make myself see them as divorced subjects. I can certainly understand the usefulness of seeing sex as purely biological and gender as sociocultural aspects for others but, in my mind, it feels like an artificial separation of two things stuck in a muddied circular relationship.

When it comes to physical characteristics, I have a habit of seeing the construction of definitions as somewhat gendered in nature because I believe it's important to emphasise that the scientific process doesn't take place in a bubble separated from all human complications. Flowing from that, the crafting of sex classifications often seems to start from a point greatly impacted by ingrained assumptions about the gender binary and leads to those assumptions being imposed on nature. I'd suggest that might be highlighted by factors like the way definitions of sex have varied greatly throughout history and continue to vary depending on contextual need (e.g. expected gamete production, expected chromosomes, visible secondary sex features, hormone levels, etc), or cases wherein newborns are assigned to a sex based on which side of the binary their genitalia are subjectively deemed closer to matching.

Ultimately, this and much more means I'll see myself as changing my overall gender even when changing things like secondary or primary sex characteristics and believe it's my gender that tends to determine which definition of sex people apply to me. In every day contexts, if a person sees me as a woman then I think they'll apply a definition of sex that classifies me as female, thus my sex would be gendered in nature. Of course, if other people prefer to look at the causal relationship as reversed thereby inclining them towards self-applying 'transsexual' then I can totally understand that too. The same understanding applies to people that state there's a strict separation between sex and gender too.

Anyhoo, I'm very tired and anxious due to an important gate-keeping appointment soon so this might not make any sense at all and is probably a total ramble. Well, what I mean is that I expect things I write generally don't make sense but that's probably even more applicable here. *giggles*

Quote from: Lonicera on August 10, 2014, 10:11:44 PMWell, what I mean is that I expect things I write generally don't make sense but that's probably even more applicable here. *giggles*

I agree 100%  Trying to change the definitions of male/female -  man/woman, can get pretty convoluted and tiresome.  That is why "boy" does not equal, nor is it the same as "girl".  And that is also why, while there might be, and generally is, some meaningful relationship between physiological sex and gender roles/presentations, they are most decidedly not the same.

Quote from: Susan522 on August 10, 2014, 10:30:08 PM
I agree 100%  Trying to change the definitions of male/female -  man/woman, can get pretty convoluted and tiresome.  That is why "boy" does not equal, nor is it the same as "girl".  And that is also why, while there might be, and generally is, some meaningful relationship between physiological sex and gender roles/presentations, they are most decidedly not the same.

I didn't say they were the same thing, I said the definitions we use for each are 'two things stuck in a muddied circular relationship.' I simply believe conceptions of gender and social systems we've created also shape and reflect our understanding of our physicality. For me, gender has general primacy in that relationship and our social systems hence I prefer transgender, that's all. I stand by that until you can offer something more than just being snide yet again.

As for categorisation as 'boy' or 'girl,' I think it's a great deal more complicated than the strict binary you propose and the point has nothing to do with the importance of relationships between things that I tried to stress, in my mind.

How one "identifies" is their own personal choice.  Whether or not others share that personal identification is up to them is it not?  Nevertheless, RE: the Original post...

Quote from: kelly_aus on August 10, 2014, 04:23:39 PM
Whether you like the word or not is a moot point. It's word with a clear medical definition, one you either fit or you don't.

Transgender is an umbrella term. It includes cross dressers, drag, and various other subgroups as well as transexual people. It's an umbrella term to gather more people under one label, show them the commonalities they have so they can organize politically together.

On the other hand, transexual is a clinical term, used to describe trans folk who have experienced (or could experience) gender dysphoria and who feel they would be better off transitioning to a different gender role within society. Technically, it is far more accurate and narrow than transgender. Technically it is us.

I realize that some words get bad associations so I think it makes sense to try to be sensitive, especially to those who have had bad experiences associated with particular words. There are very few places I would openly use "->-bleeped-<-", for example, with gay male drag situations being about the only one. Other words, like cisgender, have acquired negative connotations in general conversation but are still widely used in clinical settings.

I think we need to be more cognizant of when and where to use particular words.

I don't particularly like the term but I think it more accurately describes me than "transgender" because my gender is decidedly and fixedly female now that I've cleared up my questions of identity.

It's all really semantic, isn't it? Just a bunch of Latin roots kludged together in an attempt to label a human condition which falls more than one standard deviation from the mean on some arbitrary dimension or factor. Looking at those Latin roots, to me, transgender implies the condition I live with, that is that my gender and my body are incompatible. Transexual indicates to me, a transgender person who has undertaken all of the possible steps to correct the aforementioned incongruity. I find neither of the terms offensive, because, as I stated before, it's all really just semantic. Now... y'all wouldn't want to accuse me of being anti-semantic, would you?

How about chromosomal misaligned brain syndrome. I think its got a nice ring to it.

good name for a band too...

Quote from: EllieM on August 11, 2014, 07:31:26 PM

good name for a band too...

yes

I told my boss last week I am transsexual; I felt a bit awkward but a lot better than when I told him I am trans*. Then I explained how it differs from trans*. This conversation was at the end of my annual evaluation when he asked how things were going personally. He is curious as to when I will present. I explained how my wife told my daughter and the storm that ensued. I explained I have my wife and daughter and my wife threatened to divorce me if I have procedures. I explained my dysphonia and need for procedures and my dilemma. I was getting a bit emotional by then. I concluded by explaining how HRT, therapy, group and on-line support are why I am still around. He asked what he could do to help and I said your support is all I need.

Point being, this was an opportunity to explain what a transsexual goes through and how it is not something that is done because of what the media portrays.

The word is a word, I really dislike what that word means to me and the power it has over me.

Quote from: Riley Skye on August 10, 2014, 03:51:06 PM
It also leaves a bad taste in my mouth because it sounds like a sexual orientation like heterosexual and bisexual. I think transgender is more accurate because it is about gender and not sex. For me it has negative connotations and yes there are worse things but I personally just don't like it.

Thats exactly how I see it. I prefer transgendered all day... Just woman or girl a bit more

Personally, I don't really mind most of the T-words, but aside from the obviously offensive words, there is one word that offends me if anyone were to call me it.  ->-bleeped-<-.  I realize it's sorta outdated, but I absolutely hate it for some reason.  It means the same thing more-or-less, but cross-dresser is better IMO (though I am planning on transitioning, not just cross-dressing)

Just my two cents!

I think, we think, to much about words.

Also we continue to hold to much hate over them and their meanings.

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned." -  Buddhaghosa

It is a word nothing more, and has no power over you. Unless you allow it.

Yeah but proper language and education is exactly what the world needs to know when it comes to trans issues. A lot of the hate we get is because of misinformation.