I did not know where to post this, and settled with this subforum. If it is in the wrong place, then please do take it down, cause it wont soon matter anyway. Definitely, would not post this in the MtF section, cause it might be too triggering there.
It is about dressing - "cross-dressing", "just dressing up" - labels dont matter, but essentially about putting on clothes for the gender which is not the birth-assigned.
I am starting to suspect that something is way off, because I really cannot stand seeing myself in female clothes. Period. Something makes me cringe inside whenever I do that - besides, this is more acute with regard to pictures than "real life". Dunno, how to explain this... I posted a couple of pics yesterday and then looked at myself and took them down before people might notice and reply. Because for some reason being there on par with others felt demeaning and shameful. And I was surprised at the strength of those feelings. I have also decided to stop HRT - or just take the AAs - to see if that might help, but I am afraid the issue lays elsewhere. I want to keep my personality, but there are things which I just hate.

Sounds like a chat to the therapist Hon. There are no rules, you wear and present as you wish, and as what you are comfortable with.

We are all different we are not clones

Well, we do not have the benefit of gender-specialised therapists here, and my previous experience confirms that in due time things can figured out by myself - simply by trying out all the variables until something works out.
Besides, it is not only clothing, the whole social life has just become non-existent, lonely and boring. I am thinking that I need some sort of distraction or a hobby. Something which would keep on the edge. Pre-everything I kept thinking about sky-diving. They say- if at first You dont succeed sky-diving is not for You. Maybe I might get lucky.

Emily

This is a tough one.  Without a gender therapist this discovery process may take a little longer. But as you say, you will probably work out what works best for you.  There are a number of non binary folk here who take low dose hrt for the relief it provides from dysphoria, the mild feminisation and rich emotional benefit etc.  In fact in some cases it removed the compulsion or need to dress as their non birth sex.  Others have varied their hrt - with endo encouragement,  to determine the best mix of AA and E for them to achieve their desired results... and there are  quite a few who have found that a more andro or non binary presentation better reflected their gender identity.

This really is a journey.  Most folk take time to discover, accept and express their gender identity.  Many of us have found that a binary outcome doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it is a voyage of discovery and you will find yourself. If you don't wish to dress as your non birth sex then that is fine, and like any decision should not lead you to further distress.

Safe travels

Aisla

It has really been like a journey on the edge of the blade. I have been on transitioning dose for most of that time and most of people agreed that it has become more comfortable to be around me than it used to be... Emotional side is great, if not overwhelming... Today, I read that Robin Williams has died... I re-watched that ending scene of "What Dreams May Come" and I cried, because of that and the symbolism of that scene now... I hope he will come back one day to live again another life where he would not suffer from whatever plagued him in this one. 

Emily

Perhaps it may be worth dialling back (with endo support) your hrt, rather than stopping it cold.  When I completely stopped hrt, the dysphoria was still there, just waiting to pounce.  What made it worse was that I knew hrt worked.  So I cautiously flexed the E and the AA dosage to get me to the best place.  I am now in a very good place.  Now ymmv and every person really is different but dialling back may be a better option than stopping all hrt, cold turkey.

Safe travels

Aisla

The roots of that are not internal, but rather external... if that makes sense. Yes, stopping HRT somehow instantly turns me into angry mode (and it could not happen so fast because of hormones, so I might be talking myself into that state) -whenever I feel like wanting to punch wall, then do it again and again - I know that those are "fun times" again. The main issue is that ugliness which is a trigger for the rest. And that cannot be solved with tweaking of dosages.

Emily

I don't know what to say.  Sometimes the reasons are not readily apparent.   I am really sorry that you are in this situation.  Venting may help.  We are always here to listen and to bounce ideas off.

Be well

Aisla

Emily,
I think that this journey to authenticity is about the journey and nothing more.  If where you feel is inauthentic, then dosage manipulation may help.  If it is a how you look issue, then change your shirt.  I can be happy in Dockers and a sport shirt, or a blouse and skirt.  What I wear doesn't define who I am.  It never did.  What the accouterments of femininity do for me is validate my sense of self.  If that doesn't work for you, then on with the 501 Levis.

If you dress like a girl, guy, both or neither, isn't the issue, who you are today is.  That is what you can celebrate.   That is what is authentic.

Fair winds and calm seas,

Julie

Emily,

I can understand your feelings on dressing.  For me, pre HRT, dressing was the only way for me to release the dysphoria, lancing the boil so to speak.

Since HRT, to need to dress has dropped dramatically.  When I do, I am not happy with how I look, so there is no appeal.  For me, clothes are clothes for the time being.  Then again, I am type A in personality and take things to the extreme.

I agree with Cindy, spend some time with your therapist and talk about this - there's an additional layer to yourself that you weren't seafront and it needs to be explored.  I advise Against dropping HRT cold - talk to your endo about tapering down safety and finding what level works for you.

I've been there. Never wanted to wear women's clothes at any point in my life. When I started, not only were they physically uncomfortable, but there was some emotional trigger as well. I was deeply uncomfortable wearing them.

As I embraced my womanhood, that passed.

Though, Emily, I know A LOT, and I mean A LOT of cisgender women who prefer to dress androgynously (or totally butch) because feminine clothes turn them off.

Well, to put it simply - I look ugly and hideous in female clothes and if I was to wear them, I would never pass. I dunno why oh why, but I took pics yesterday and posted them on Susan's and then as I kept looking at them, I realised that they just need to go before anyone would see them. And so it just spiralled down from that point. I either need to loose weight, which is not really happening, or just wear male clothes (which I dont hate, per se), but if I do... then what is really the point??? If I can jump off the HRT and still be that friendly and open person, in touch with my emotions - at least I know how to feel again - then why wasting money and just live my life as it is? It all breaks down to simple truth - I no more know what I am or who I am, and where I am moving - and sorry folks, but therapist is not going to help me to figure this out. I just know. The approach of "pushing different buttons to see which works and which wont" has worked all my life, so I guess I need to give a test run on jumping off HRT to see where it takes me. Might be a curious experience - and which does not kill us, makes us stronger. Or handicapped.

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on August 12, 2014, 07:37:39 AM
Well, to put it simply - I look ugly and hideous in female clothes and if I was to wear them, I would never pass. I dunno why oh why, but I took pics yesterday and posted them on Susan's and then as I kept looking at them, I realised that they just need to go before anyone would see them. And so it just spiralled down from that point. I either need to loose weight, which is not really happening, or just wear male clothes (which I dont hate, per se), but if I do... then what is really the point??? If I can jump off the HRT and still be that friendly and open person, in touch with my emotions - at least I know how to feel again - then why wasting money and just live my life as it is? It all breaks down to simple truth - I no more know what I am or who I am, and where I am moving - and sorry folks, but therapist is not going to help me to figure this out. I just know. The approach of "pushing different buttons to see which works and which wont" has worked all my life, so I guess I need to give a test run on jumping off HRT to see where it takes me. Might be a curious experience - and which does not kill us, makes us stronger. Or handicapped.

We are our own worst critics of photos. I hate taking photos. Probably because of the same reason you do.

I wouldn't just jump off HRT cold turkey though. Maybe back it down a little at a time or talk to your endo and back it down to a more comfortable level. Be careful because that dysphoria may be luking right around the corner.

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on August 12, 2014, 07:37:39 AM
Well, to put it simply - I look ugly and hideous in female clothes and if I was to wear them, I would never pass.

Oh, I see.

I hope you'll let me point out a few things:

1. Some of the happiest trans women I know IRL could never pass. Yet they celebrate every day the opportunity to walk the earth as women and are thrilled with their transitions.

2. With the right clothes, any woman (passable or not) can look lovely. I know several non-passing women who are quite beautiful.

3. IMO, no woman is every ugly, passing or not.

Don't know if it helps, but it's what I got.

Emily dear!

You and I have done more than a bit of Skype video, and I think I've told you several times that you look cute.  And in my opinion there's no need to go from your male-andro clothes hard over to "women's clothes", whatever that might mean. 

I'd agree with Cindy that you need to try and find someone professional to talk to about the space you're in.  You and I are much too good friends for me to even offer this,  and since I'm an engineer, if it can't be fixed with a screwdriver, I'm the wrong girl for this

Here's an observation:   it's often very hard to see yourself in a new gender role if you're taking your transition in parts.  Three years ago, long before I started my transition I tried on one of my then-wife's dresses.  And I looked like a muscular boy in a dress.   It was reeeeeeevolting!  I simply couldn't envisage myself as a viable woman.  Now I'm not saying for a moment that you need to wear dresses to be a woman - that's nonsense - but it is viewed as the "pinnacle" of feminine clothing.

From my own experience, it was my decision to take all parts of my transition together that helped immeasurably.  HRT, hair removal,  voice training, makeup, a little behaviour modification,  cardio-only exercise.   But it was a big risk and I knew that I was burning bridges in order to go forward.   But it was by doing all of those things that I managed both to envisage myself in female clothing and feel comfortable dressed that way.  And for the first few months I was in skinny jeans, boots and andro tops, since I couldn't see myself in anything else.  A few weeks ago I went shopping with my mother (!), discovered a line of dresses that make me look cute, and since then I've managed to make that jump.  But I was scared out of my mind until I did so.

Take your time - maybe your equilibrium is to be found elsewhere.


xxx
J/A

Hi there Em- you helped me in here nice to see you back

OK, first I am worried now.

I present genderqueer.  Yet I am triune in terms of gender - physically heavily dysphoric to female body needs, my core is gender neutral and amused by the whole concept of male and female, and presentationally/socially I am genderqueer, fluid in this presentation across the range.

I am GQ because I have to be GQ.

Its in the eyes dear, look into your eyes, see the beauty that is Emily, validate the spirit within, the heart, the soul, the being that is Emily and is on this earth to bring joy to hearts....

The eyes trump every presentation, every dysphoria, they carry truth, light

From there, you can go anywhere, be anything, and know you are set free.  The clothes, are fun things to play with and to be your statement of self.  I can be dressed male, with my nails out, with all beneath very female indeed, and be just fine.  Smiling away knowing who I am is not dependant on what I show to others. Or even myself.

I have to have full hormones, but that is me.  I am mtf trans but non binary to the core. I have no diagnosis.  There isn't one for me.  I am fine with that.

So wear what turns you on, what pleases your eyes, but look within dear one, look within to who's really there, and let Emily look back at you in the mirror, and tell (?her) that you love her and always will.

Blessings

Nails out, hair ready, living free

For HRT, you should consider what it does for you internally and externally, but not worrying about clothes just yet.  If it helps, you probably want to stay on.  As others have mentioned, women can adopt an androgynous, unisex, or even masculine style, so don't feel clothing issues should stop you from what your body and identity need.

Clothing is a complicated thing, and "women's" is no exception.   Besides having more characteristics to juggle, "women's" has a tendency to "show" (thin fabric, stretchy fabric, short length, see-through, form-fitting cuts, more color, etc), and you have to figure out in which respects you do and don't want to "show."  Don't think so much about how the clothes make you look compared to other women... think about how they make you look and feel compared to yourself in other clothes.  If you find things you like, you aren't obligated to wear such clothes with any particular frequency.  Personally, about the only "women's" clothes I've adopted are a-line or empire dresses (ones that flare out) with thick fabrics (preferably but not necessarily lined satin) and solid colors... a selection limited enough that I couldn't very well dress that way all the time even if I felt the freedom to do so.  Your situation is not the same, but facing many setbacks does not mean you can't eventually find a feminine style or so to your liking.  HRT should help.  If you feel too big, it's good to take reasonable steps to address that issue... but big women nevertheless exist and find clothes of their own, so see what you can learn from what they wear (you don't have to imitate, but you might draw some inspiration).  There will be frustrating moments, but it sounds like the sacrifice is worthwhile.

Emily you'll be ok, just take it a day at a time, get some outside interests and just be yourself. You don't have to fit into any preconceived molds or measure yourself against the progress of others.

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on August 12, 2014, 07:37:39 AM
Well, to put it simply - I look ugly and hideous in female clothes and if I was to wear them, I would never pass.

I felt the same way when I first bought and tried on some off-the-rack clothes.  For me, there were two distinct problems:

• I was weirded out by the idea of a "man in a dress."
  
• Clothes made for women don't look good on me.  Part of it is that they don't fit right, and part is that they accent parts of me that I'd rather minimize (and vice versa.)
  

In my case, I really wanted to wear skirts and dresses and frilly, feminine-looking clothes, anyway.  (You may not be like that.)  What I ended up doing was to start with fairly unfeminine skirts, ones that didn't conflict too much with how I was used to seeing myself, and as I got comfortable with that, I could try on slightly more feminine things.  It wasn't planned, it was just me following my urges.

To deal with the second problem, I started making my own clothes.  This is really not for everyone, but since I like making things, I would picture how I wanted to look and then make a pattern and sew something and, if I didn't like it, I would alter it.  In the end, I got clothes that fit right, felt comfortable, and didn't make me look like I was pretending to be what I wasn't.

I'll have to agree with the commenters who say, don't focus on passing.  The concept of passing is ultimately about trying to meet somebody else's standard for who you have to be.  I'd rather focus on satisfying myself and feeling like myself (whoever that is), and if some people see me as my preferred gender without my having to tell them, that's a bonus.

Of course, that may simply be sour grapes talking, since I'm convinced I'll never look like a woman, no matter how much HRT or surgery or voice and deportment training I get.  At least, not the way I'd like to look.

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on August 12, 2014, 02:47:57 AM
Well, we do not have the benefit of gender-specialised therapists here, and my previous experience confirms that in due time things can figured out by myself - simply by trying out all the variables until something works out.
Besides, it is not only clothing, the whole social life has just become non-existent, lonely and boring. I am thinking that I need some sort of distraction or a hobby. Something which would keep on the edge. Pre-everything I kept thinking about sky-diving. They say- if at first You dont succeed sky-diving is not for You. Maybe I might get lucky.

To live on the edge on your comfort zone is life on the edge, but to step past that is to live.
Your comfort zone will follow you, it is just a step behind you when ever you step out of it.
I've read down to here all the very good comments, but is this what you really want to do?
Step past it? Find that thing that you can do, to do just that, be it skydiving or something else...
Find that step that will restore the calm. Sometimes you do have to step out of your comfort zone to find it.
Ativan