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Explaining My Gender Identity to Extremely Religious Family Members?

Started by Gabrielle_22, August 12, 2014, 11:43:22 AM

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Gabrielle_22

Hi, everyone. So, I've recently begun to be more open about my gender identity; I identify as bi-gender, though I lean much more towards my girl side. Because I was assigned male at birth, most of my large extended family knows me only as a male. While I took the risk a few weeks ago of telling my parents that I was trans*, I have not told anyone else in my extended family, in part because my parents warned me not to, and in part because I am afraid of the consequences. While my father is fairly liberal and is an atheist (like me), my mother is Catholic, and she does not want to accept that transgender people exist; she very much sees the world in an Adam/Eve sort of way. "You cannot be anything but a man," she has said to me before. At one point, she became suicidal and said she was a failure as a mother. While she is more stable now, I was shocked that my having told her had brought her to consider taking her life, and I felt horrible for a number of weeks.

Yet I worry that her responses to me are lighter than what I will get from the rest of my family when I eventually do come out. The rest of my extended family is highly religious (generally Catholic) and generally not in favour of things like same-sex marriage, civil unions, homosexuality in general, etc.--and I am not even convinced many of them know what "transgender" means, but I'm sure they would, as many people at home here do, lump it together with homosexuality as a "deviant" satanic behaviour that must be "cured" by priests. This is almost a direct quote from what I've seen some people say, so you can sort of get an idea of the atmosphere of acceptance.

Does anyone have any advice on how to explain being trans* to extremely religious family members? Does anyone have experience here? I do not want to isolate myself from them or cause a schism; and, because my parents are older, and because I am an only child, I know that I may (as my parents have told me more than once themselves) have to turn to my extended family for help if anything were to happen to my parents' health. I worry that I will be shunned, and although I am no longer as close to much of my extended family as I was when I was a child, I do not want to lose them. My mother is so afraid of the consequences of someone finding out that she does not want to discuss my being trans* on the phone for fear of the call being recorded (to be fair, paranoia aside, there was a scandal with wire-tapping involving our prime minister a little while back, so this is unlikely but not impossible), and both she and my father told me not to put anything on Facebook.

I am not usually at home, since I am at graduate school in Florida, but I usually travel back home at least once a year, and often twice. 

Thank you in advance for any advice you may have!
Gabby
"The time will come / when, with elation / you will greet yourself arriving / at your own door, in your own mirror / and each will smile at the other's welcome, / and say, sit here. Eat. / You will love again the stranger who was your self./ Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart / to itself, to the stranger who has loved you / all your life, whom you ignored" - Walcott, "Love after Love"
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ErinWDK

Gabby,

I feel your pain.  A lot of my social contacts are Fundamentalist Christians, and while they differ in most aspects of their beliefs from Catholics, the one common point is a total rejection of anything regarding trans*.  And, yes, their whole idea is that being trans* is just another form of homosexual.  This is a really tough nut to crack.  There are those who enjoy the cookies and cupcakes my female side bakes who would be aghast if she showed up in a nice feminine outfit.

It would seem that your father has given you good advice.  Since you are here on one side of the pond and your parents and extended family are on the other you can live your life here as you.  The downside is that when/if your parents health fails you/they will need to rely on extended family - so your being able to present yourself as you is held hostage to the potential family need.  In that vein, when you have a few more posts and can post an avatar, it would very much be best to not post a real picture of you that could be identified.  You need to watch out for your own security, and pictures posted onthe Internet can end up anywhere (especially where you DON'T want them).

HTH


Erin
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JulieB

I am going to be honest, I really don't have any advice, because they tend to see things as black and white, never considering anything outside their world view.  I am not saying they are bad people or anything - pretty much my entire family is hardcore fundamentalist.  I want to come out as trans, but they would never accept it.  It is homosexuality to them, and that is an abomination to them... Ugh.

Only advice I can give is to try not to get too hurt by their reaction if and when you come out. Your own happiness is most important in the end.
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Gabrielle_22 on August 12, 2014, 11:43:22 AM

Does anyone have any advice on how to explain being trans* to extremely religious family members?

No different that explaining trans* to anyone else.

"We all have a part of our brain that tells us what gender we need to be. For some people, that part is wired with a gender doesn't match our physical sex. For centuries the medical and faith communities have tried to figure out how best to help those folks. All sorts of things have been tried, but the only thing that has ever made a difference is for them to live as their identified gender. Therefore, in the name of compassion and charity, caregivers help us live the way we need to live. Nothing else helps, and those who ignore their gender identity often experience crippling depression and anxiety which nothing else will make better. Those who have caring and love in their hearts realize that transgender folk who seek treatment are doing what they need to do."

Good luck and hugs, Gabby. I hope this helps.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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ErinWDK

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 12, 2014, 02:26:17 PM
No different that explaining trans* to anyone else.

"We all have a part of our brain that tells us what gender we need to be. For some people, that part is wired with a gender doesn't match our physical sex. For centuries the medical and faith communities have tried to figure out how best to help those folks. All sorts of things have been tried, but the only thing that has ever made a difference is for them to live as their identified gender. Therefore, in the name of compassion and charity, caregivers help us live the way we need to live. Nothing else helps, and those who ignore their gender identity often experience crippling depression and anxiety which nothing else will make better. Those who have caring and love in their hearts realize that transgender folk who seek treatment are doing what they need to do."

Good luck and hugs, Gabby. I hope this helps.

Suzi,

What you say is absolutely true.  This is enough for rational people.  Sadly, Gabby is dealing with "extremely religious" folk, and that sort of trumps rational.  I have had the ethics and competence of my therapist challenged because she does not solely (or at all) rely on reparative therapy.  This is a mind set I have yet to figure out how to get through to...


Erin
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Brenda E

Quote from: JulieB on August 12, 2014, 01:59:07 PMIt is homosexuality to them, and that is an abomination to them... Ugh.

The word abomination is one that I only ever hear coming from the mouths of religious people during conversations (if one can even call their closed-minded, closed-eared regurgitation of BS a "conversation") about homosexuality or any kind of gender variance.  In that context, it truly is one of the most disgusting, offensive words in the English language, spoken by some of the most disgusting, offensive people.

Sorry, Gabrielle, but you might be out of luck.  Given the hardcore nature of your family's religious beliefs, you're most likely to lose many of them during your transition.  Your father sounds like he might be on your side.  Your mother?  I hate to extrapolate from your post, but it sounds like she's played the "I'm going to commit suicide if you transition" card very well, and I imagine she's feeling rather smug at how effectively she's selfishly manipulated you and dampened your desire to be who you are instead of who she wants you to be.  And that tends to go hand in hand with religion: the more outwardly religious the person, the less "good" a person they really are underneath.

It's a story we hear time and time and time again here at Susan's.  Religion and trans mix about as well as oil and water.  My advice?  Move forward with your transition and stay away from home while you're doing it.  Life's too short to worry about how everyone else will react, and those who genuinely love you will be there for you after transition, regardless.

If you are worried about your extended family shunning your parents because their kid is trans (i.e. your extended family will punish you by shutting off your parents for something that was not their fault), then it sounds like an extremely toxic environment, and one which you should distance yourself from even if you weren't trans.  Normal caring families don't do stuff like that.

I know all of the above sounds pretty harsh, but I honestly can't sit here and tell you that everything will work out just fine.  That said, I think you should give your family a chance to accept you, and continue to give them chances to accept you as the years go by; you should never be the one to cut off family - leave the door open, but leave it up to them to walk through it.  They may surprise you, and I honestly hope that they will.  But go into transition prepared to be systematically shut off from everyone.

A rough choice to make, and I'm so sorry you're in that position.
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Rachel

Gabby Hugs,

If you are stealth then anything that can be associated to you can on the net, if you are not very carful.

Religious beliefs are a tough thing to reason with; perhaps if you present they will eventfully "understand" and tolerate after the shock has worn off.

HRT takes a while to take effect, especially as we age. I am 52 and on HRT 14 months and stealth. So, perhaps a plan with a several year time line can help make a (one coarse of action) perspective and perhaps aid in their grasping the reality. Although, 6 months between visits they may notice.
HRT  5-28-2013
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suzifrommd

Quote from: ErinWDK on August 12, 2014, 02:31:05 PM
Suzi,

What you say is absolutely true.  This is enough for rational people.  Sadly, Gabby is dealing with "extremely religious" folk, and that sort of trumps rational.  I have had the ethics and competence of my therapist challenged because she does not solely (or at all) rely on reparative therapy.  This is a mind set I have yet to figure out how to get through to...


Erin

It's true there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. My point was that for really religious types, it might be good to appeal to their sense of charity and compassion, since some religious folks still believe that's how people are called to be.

I agree that for people who see their religion solely as a cover for hating and persecuting LGBT people, there is no "explanation" that would satisfy them.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Ixera

Try living with them lol  ;)

My entire extended family lives an hour away from me

My uncle is a 'preacher' and decided to give a rather long and awkward speech at my cousin's wedding about gay marriage and the horrors of homosexuality

My parents would/will be accepting and supportive (if given the right information and guidance) because they truly love me and want the best for me. I kinda doubt they would even be surprised I'm not a straight male.

But them...That sounds like a nightmare.

Except come to think of it just BEING AROUND them is as about as bad as it could get.  :laugh:

But my mom will just tell them to stfu like in the average drama my insane family goes through on their regular psychotic issue binge every couple days.

And if they do give me more trouble than I expect well revenge is best served in the form of a very funny memoir  >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-) >:-)
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Ixera

But I totally understand Gabby, what you're going through is very real and although I have a sense of humor about my own situation I'll eventually have to come out to them and I dread that day...

But my family is unique...ie. they are all complete nut jobs, and although they are a memoir worth pack of complete lunitics I'm sure they will come around because they do love me.

Well except for the uncle --or (s)--- but no one cares what that dusty old fart thinks anyway. We just ignore him and feed him casseroles.   8)

Or except my aunt---but we tend to ignore her too as she thinks drinking soda is evil (along with everything else even remotely enjoyable)... We feed her booze to shut her up

But seriously I hope you can transition without those massive headaches telling you what to do with your own person. Stay strong Gabby and don't let anyone bring you down, because only you can get though this and emerge as who you truly are in your heart.

Take care.
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luna nyan

Gabby,

I understand that you are atheist, but do you have a Roman Catholic background, given that your mother is one?

The reason I'm asking is that unless you can look at things from their point of view, you will have difficulty talking to them about it.   Personally, I find it hard to have a good discussion about spirituality with someone unless I can place myself from their viewpoint.  You need to discuss it from their viewpoint.

My background is Protestant, and I will be honest in that I don't know the specific ins and outs with the catholic position.  I have my own position that I argue from - PM me if you really want a wall of text.  :)

Erin,

I would like to say to you that extremely religious doesn't necessarily equal irrational.  Many people of faith came to it through rational thought and philosophising.  It's equally easy for many religious people to say that atheists are people who feel damaged or threatened by religion.

There is a gap between the two groups, and I find lively civil discussion stimulating.  :)
Drifting down the river of life...
My 4+ years non-transitioning HRT experience
Ask me anything!  I promise you I know absolutely everything about nothing! :D
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Illuminess

If any of them are at all receptive to the scientific facts of biology then you could explain to them how gender identity isn't actually the work of demon possession, and that there is a genetic (or epigenetic) mishap in development which causes a misalignment between the body and the brain. If they can't accept science alongside spirituality then they must deny gravity, and should throw out all of their prescriptions. :P

It really boggles the mind how people will accept one part of an equation and dismiss the other when it's obvious that both parts are required for conclusive evidence. If you combine certain amounts of hydrogen and ozone you get water, but if the molecules are not combined in the right amount you end up with hydrogen peroxide. So why wouldn't the human body not be susceptible to a similar alteration?

But I know how extreme religious people can be, and all the logic in the world won't phase them, so they'll either understand and accept you, or they won't. It's just one of the obstacles of transition. You just have to do what you know is right, and show them how it has improved your well-being and happiness. If they still give you hell then it's their loss. Family is only important if there's mutual love and acceptance. That's my view, anyway.
△ ☾ Rıνεя Aяıп Lαυяıε ☽ △

"Despair holds a sweetness that only an artist's tongue can taste."Illuminess
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Marcia

Quote from: sororcaeli on August 12, 2014, 11:20:13 PM
If any of them are at all receptive to the scientific facts of biology then you could explain to them how gender identity isn't actually the work of demon possession, and that there is a genetic (or epigenetic) mishap in development which causes a misalignment between the body and the brain. If they can't accept science alongside spirituality then they must deny gravity, and should throw out all of their prescriptions. :P

It really boggles the mind how people will accept one part of an equation and dismiss the other when it's obvious that both parts are required for conclusive evidence. If you combine certain amounts of hydrogen and ozone you get water, but if the molecules are not combined in the right amount you end up with hydrogen peroxide. So why wouldn't the human body not be susceptible to a similar alteration?

But I know how extreme religious people can be, and all the logic in the world won't phase them, so they'll either understand and accept you, or they won't. It's just one of the obstacles of transition. You just have to do what you know is right, and show them how it has improved your well-being and happiness. If they still give you hell then it's their loss. Family is only important if there's mutual love and acceptance. That's my view, anyway.


This may be the way to go. I would use this approach and use something that learned in high school the one time I got in trouble. Take small leading steps. You start with question 1 using question 1 ask question 2. Each step needs to be small and questions that you know they will agree to.
-Mark & Marcia
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helen2010

Gabby

You know your family better than I do.  Given the way that you have described your family, I would be very cautious about who and when I tell anyone about being trans*.  It may just be a whole lot better to pick them off one  by one over an extended period of time.  There will probably need to be different messages for different folk - some will need a reference to scripture, some will feel better with a scientific explanation, while others will just want you to be safe and happy.  Perhaps you could discuss this with your therapist and work through options, perhaps even role play them - just look after yourself, safety first.  If you think that you can get your mother or another relative onside then they could provide invaluable advice and support.

Safe travels

Aisla
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Jera

I'm going to have to agree that any sort of "explanation" probably isn't going to help. In my own recent experience, they're not going to accept a word you're saying, because what you have said does not fit into the worldview they are so desperately trying to cling to.

That's how my family works, anyway.

What I would say, is just do for you. Just do it. If it makes you happy, great! Show them the happiness, and if they ever desire to understand, try to explain why what you have done is what has given you genuine joy in your life. For my family, it just doesn't work to try to explain things before they have some results they can see. They still may not accept me.

Whatever you choose to do, I dearly pray you find your own personal joy.
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Rina

While my experience is that the religious far-right in America is difficult to reason with at all (quite contrary to my Catholic friends where I live, who have been nothing but supportive), and often confuse their political ideology for religious orthodoxy, there are ways to reason within the framework of Catholic/Christian theology, at least if they're interested to even consider other points of view.

(Before I get started, please note that I don't necessarily agree to everything I write below, and I'm not writing this to start a religious debate, but to give the OP some ideas on how to explain to their family.)

Firstly, the determination of gender is traditionally done by doctors, not theologians. It is a matter of science, not theology, and therefore the Church can't really declare any doctrine about it, since it is not within the domain of faith and morals. For this reason, the Church in the past actually did change the baptismal record of transsexual individuals, post-op, upon notice from their doctors. This was then not seen as a change of sex, but as the person always having been their "new" identity, quite consistent with how we see things. Trans women were even allowed to marry men in the Church - for trans men, the shortcomings of current-day phalloplasty made marriage difficult, since there's a requirement of potency (not fertility) to marry.

This all changed in the early 2000's, when a document was sent secretly to bishops, changing the discipline. From then, birth records are not to be changed, and gender reassigned people are not given access to the sacraments of marriage and ordination. For someone not familiar with ecclesial documents, the language may seem a bit harsh, but in reality, this document is a lot friendlier than it seems (and yes, the Church has a communication problem...). First off, it says nothing about reception of communion, penance and the other sacraments not related to state of life (baptism, confirmation, anointing of the sick). That means those sacraments, which are the most important ones theologically, can still be received. Therefore, transitioning is not seen as entering a state of sin, and the person who transitions is still in good standing. That may change depending on other things (like entering a secular marriage), but transitioning in itself does not change one's standing with the Church.

It also doesn't really take a position about the person's true gender - this is why we are barred from Catholic marriage and ordination. It is a matter of prudence. The Church is essentially saying "we don't know the gender of these people". It is important to remember that science knew a lot less fourteen years ago than it does now, and the document was sadly influenced by dr. Paul McHugh. This is why I'm convinced this discipline will change - and it is important to be aware that this is a matter of discipline, not doctrine. Doctrine is always publicly declared, and this was not. The jury is still out.

The most important thing about this document is, however, that (in relation to SRS) "It concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the patient's internal turmoil." This again is in relation to the Catechism's paragraph 2297, which says that surgery (and other changes to the body) must be done only for "strictly therapeutic medical reasons" - sadly, conservatives often abuse this to condemn transitioning, while it's really meant to condemn torture and penal amputations and so on. But the document I linked in any case acknowledges that SRS is permissible in "extreme cases" (and by that is simply meant "cases where it's the last resort", which pretty much is always true for those of us who choose it...), clearly demonstrating that the conservative line of reasoning is doctrinally wrong, and a misunderstanding of the Catechism. Also, if SRS is morally permissible, then HRT, as a much less drastic treatment, must also be so.

All of this, however, is still within the gender binary. When it comes to non-binary identities, there is an extra challenge, since Catholic teaching traditionally operates with two genders, and only two. This will not change (since it is dogma), but it is important to remember that this teaching is metaphysical. It means that after the resurrection of the dead, the glorified bodies will be either male or female. However, in our current state, there are intersex people, as we have known for millennia. The traditional Catholic understanding has always been that intersex people are either male or female, but that this can't always be determined.

In the same way, since we now know that brains also are gendered, it is quite possible that some brains are somewhere in between male and female. In these cases, the person would still according to Catholic doctrine be either male or female, but there would be no way of really knowing which. Should they be forced to accept an identity, when that acceptance would be no more than a guess anyways? I say no. Just as some intersex people simply identify as intersex, agender or bigender people are equally justified in identifying as something "in between". It is perfectly consistent with the fact that our current biology is not as neatly ordered as it was according to the genesis narrative, or is going to be after the resurrection, according to eschatology.

That said, when discipline eventually is changed (and I'm convinced it will be) to allow post-op transsexuals to marry or be ordained (the latter is less likely but still possible), it is unlikely that non-binary people will be allowed the same. But that says nothing about standing, and nothing about sin. People (Catholics as much as non-Catholics, conservatives as well as liberals) too often confuse impediments to marriage or ordination with condemnation. A century or two ago, someone who had served in the military was not allowed to become a priest. That does not mean the Church condemned military service.

Lastly, most of us believe gender identity (be it binary or not) to be innate, not just taught us by society, but something we're born with. Yes, expressions of gender may change depending on culture (what is feminine now may have been masculine centuries ago), but we feel the way we do not because we choose to, but because we were born this way. This is perfectly consistent with Christian teaching. Amusingly, some conservatives turn into radical feminists when faced with this...

I hope this can help a bit, at least as starting points for them to nuance their views. The problem with many conservative Catholics is that they just assume that the Church condemns anything that is out of the ordinary, not bothering to actually investigate. Even worse, this is sadly true for many priests and bishops too. But the reality is that there is essentially no doctrine about this, just discipline. Which means the individual believer is free to form their own opinion. But simultaneously, they're not free to make their view binding on others, especially if it is prohibitive - that would be one of the gravest sins of them all, the same sin of which the Pharisees were guilty.
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helen2010

Rina

Thank you for this.  As a lapsed Catholic with religious family this is very useful indeed and is very much appreciated.

Aisla
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Gabrielle_22

Wow--thank you, everyone, for your time and replies so far. It means a great deal to me.  :)

Quote from: luna nyan on August 12, 2014, 10:29:05 PM
Gabby,

I understand that you are atheist, but do you have a Roman Catholic background, given that your mother is one?

The reason I'm asking is that unless you can look at things from their point of view, you will have difficulty talking to them about it.   Personally, I find it hard to have a good discussion about spirituality with someone unless I can place myself from their viewpoint.  You need to discuss it from their viewpoint.

My background is Protestant, and I will be honest in that I don't know the specific ins and outs with the catholic position.  I have my own position that I argue from - PM me if you really want a wall of text.  :)


Luna, ah, I see I should have clarified this. Yes, I grew up Roman Catholic; I went to an all-boys school run by a group of Christian Brothers from Canada. The island I live in is predominantly Catholic, and almost every other prominent religion is some form of Christianity (especially Methodism and Anglicanism), with small other communities of Muslims, some Rastafarians that consider themselves outside of Christianity, and a few Baha'i followers. I am no longer a believer but am certainly capable of putting myself in the shoes of believers; furthermore, I am not a gnostic atheist, so I do not claim I know for certain whether or not a deity exists. (My position is like Bertrand Russell's, in that I identify simply as an atheist for simplicity, but from a stricter philosophical perspective, I would be an agnostic atheist.) I love a good religious debate and studying the history of comparative religions, so my approach with my family would certainly be to try to explain things to them in a way that begins at their worldview and works upward from there.

I would love to see your views, no matter how long the PM, if you have time to share them!

Quote from: sororcaeli on August 12, 2014, 11:20:13 PM
If any of them are at all receptive to the scientific facts of biology then you could explain to them how gender identity isn't actually the work of demon possession, and that there is a genetic (or epigenetic) mishap in development which causes a misalignment between the body and the brain. If they can't accept science alongside spirituality then they must deny gravity, and should throw out all of their prescriptions. :P

It really boggles the mind how people will accept one part of an equation and dismiss the other when it's obvious that both parts are required for conclusive evidence. If you combine certain amounts of hydrogen and ozone you get water, but if the molecules are not combined in the right amount you end up with hydrogen peroxide. So why wouldn't the human body not be susceptible to a similar alteration?

But I know how extreme religious people can be, and all the logic in the world won't phase them, so they'll either understand and accept you, or they won't. It's just one of the obstacles of transition. You just have to do what you know is right, and show them how it has improved your well-being and happiness. If they still give you hell then it's their loss. Family is only important if there's mutual love and acceptance. That's my view, anyway.

Yes, I've considered trying to approach this issue via science, and some of my family members might be receptive to that. However, many of these same family members are not well-versed in science generally, reject (or I presume will reject) evolutionary theory outright in the same way that Young Earth Creationists would (without likely knowing what Young Earth Creationism is), believe homosexuality is a choice only humans make, and are liable to claim that only the word of God (as opposed to science) can present an absolute claim to knowledge. In a lot of the Caribbean, religion is so intertwined with day-to-day life for most people that to suggest something in the Bible might not be fully accurate is to invite blasphemy, is to argue fo the existence of a four-sided triangle. If I were able to sit down with everyone and have a slow, reasoned-out discussion, I would be happy to try to show them the scientific reality of trans* people. But it's quite a wall to climb. And I worry that their initial reaction to me, if they were to find out, would overwhelm their ability to let me try to present my side of things at length.

But thank you for the suggestion--approaching this via science, while trying to remain in their shoes, may be the best way to go about this *if* I can get people not to shun me from the very beginning.
"The time will come / when, with elation / you will greet yourself arriving / at your own door, in your own mirror / and each will smile at the other's welcome, / and say, sit here. Eat. / You will love again the stranger who was your self./ Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart / to itself, to the stranger who has loved you / all your life, whom you ignored" - Walcott, "Love after Love"
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Gabrielle_22

Quote from: Brenda E on August 12, 2014, 05:09:18 PM

Sorry, Gabrielle, but you might be out of luck.  Given the hardcore nature of your family's religious beliefs, you're most likely to lose many of them during your transition.  Your father sounds like he might be on your side.  Your mother?  I hate to extrapolate from your post, but it sounds like she's played the "I'm going to commit suicide if you transition" card very well, and I imagine she's feeling rather smug at how effectively she's selfishly manipulated you and dampened your desire to be who you are instead of who she wants you to be.  And that tends to go hand in hand with religion: the more outwardly religious the person, the less "good" a person they really are underneath.


Hi Brenda,

I should have clarified this, as well. Regarding my mother's suicidal moment: I can't imagine she's feeling smug about it because she doesn't know, as far as I know, that I am even aware she was suicidal; you see, I was in the United States when I told my parents I was trans*, only a few weeks from coming home (where I am now), and about a week after I told them over the phone, I received a call from my father. He--normally a calm man--sounded more worried than I have ever heard him, and he told me that my mother had "gone ballistic" and was talking wildly about taking her own life. He told me never to bring it up again in front her unless she brought it up and that he was concerned about her. He had waited for her to leave the house to call, so she wouldn't hear. To the best of my knowledge, my mum isn't aware that my dad told me about her being suicidal. She is a very anxiety-prone individual.

So, I don't think she is feeling smug about that particualr aspect of things. She has approached me since I came home about being transgender and her consistent position is that she "hopes to God" it is not real, that it "is all in my head," that God made Adam and Eve, not Eve-in-Adam's-body (to loosely paraphrase), etc.

I don't want to go too much into her personal life, but a part of this stems, as well, from other issues. My father told me that, in her suicidal phase, she also said repeatedly that she had failed as a mother. She does not feel she has accomplished as much in her life as she dreamt of doing, and I am her only child. Her marriage is not perfect; she told me once that she stayed only because of me. I feel often that she lives vicariously through me, that I have to do well to make her not feel even more like a failure. When I revealed I was trans*, she initially did not understand what I was telling her, since she did not even know the difference between sex and gender. She is an educated women with multiple graduate degrees, but things like this do not enter her worldview. When she began to understand the implications of my being or containing a girl despite having been assigned male at birth, I am positive she internalised this as her having also failed as a mother with her only child; she was unable, in her mind, to raise a proper son. She has repeatedly called me her "son" in our painful talks about ->-bleeped-<-.

I feel like I have so much to deal with here. I love my parents; as an only child, I've grown closer to them over time than when I was a child, since I don't have any siblings to turn to. Yet I also feel that I am being made to carry my mother's burdens, and, if I insist I am trans*, I will be, in her mind, slapping her in the face. I apologise for going on for length about this, since my original post was about my extended family.

But I think you may be right, unfortunately, that I may lose many family members if they do find out, if they won't listen to me explain things through science.
"The time will come / when, with elation / you will greet yourself arriving / at your own door, in your own mirror / and each will smile at the other's welcome, / and say, sit here. Eat. / You will love again the stranger who was your self./ Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart / to itself, to the stranger who has loved you / all your life, whom you ignored" - Walcott, "Love after Love"
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Gabrielle_22

Quote from: Rina on August 13, 2014, 02:36:57 AM
While my experience is that the religious far-right in America is difficult to reason with at all (quite contrary to my Catholic friends where I live, who have been nothing but supportive), and often confuse their political ideology for religious orthodoxy, there are ways to reason within the framework of Catholic/Christian theology, at least if they're interested to even consider other points of view.

(Before I get started, please note that I don't necessarily agree to everything I write below, and I'm not writing this to start a religious debate, but to give the OP some ideas on how to explain to their family.)

Firstly, the determination of gender is traditionally done by doctors, not theologians. It is a matter of science, not theology, and therefore the Church can't really declare any doctrine about it, since it is not within the domain of faith and morals. For this reason, the Church in the past actually did change the baptismal record of transsexual individuals, post-op, upon notice from their doctors. This was then not seen as a change of sex, but as the person always having been their "new" identity, quite consistent with how we see things. Trans women were even allowed to marry men in the Church - for trans men, the shortcomings of current-day phalloplasty made marriage difficult, since there's a requirement of potency (not fertility) to marry.

This all changed in the early 2000's, when a document was sent secretly to bishops, changing the discipline. From then, birth records are not to be changed, and gender reassigned people are not given access to the sacraments of marriage and ordination. For someone not familiar with ecclesial documents, the language may seem a bit harsh, but in reality, this document is a lot friendlier than it seems (and yes, the Church has a communication problem...). First off, it says nothing about reception of communion, penance and the other sacraments not related to state of life (baptism, confirmation, anointing of the sick). That means those sacraments, which are the most important ones theologically, can still be received. Therefore, transitioning is not seen as entering a state of sin, and the person who transitions is still in good standing. That may change depending on other things (like entering a secular marriage), but transitioning in itself does not change one's standing with the Church.

It also doesn't really take a position about the person's true gender - this is why we are barred from Catholic marriage and ordination. It is a matter of prudence. The Church is essentially saying "we don't know the gender of these people". It is important to remember that science knew a lot less fourteen years ago than it does now, and the document was sadly influenced by dr. Paul McHugh. This is why I'm convinced this discipline will change - and it is important to be aware that this is a matter of discipline, not doctrine. Doctrine is always publicly declared, and this was not. The jury is still out.

The most important thing about this document is, however, that (in relation to SRS) "It concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the patient's internal turmoil." This again is in relation to the Catechism's paragraph 2297, which says that surgery (and other changes to the body) must be done only for "strictly therapeutic medical reasons" - sadly, conservatives often abuse this to condemn transitioning, while it's really meant to condemn torture and penal amputations and so on. But the document I linked in any case acknowledges that SRS is permissible in "extreme cases" (and by that is simply meant "cases where it's the last resort", which pretty much is always true for those of us who choose it...), clearly demonstrating that the conservative line of reasoning is doctrinally wrong, and a misunderstanding of the Catechism. Also, if SRS is morally permissible, then HRT, as a much less drastic treatment, must also be so.

All of this, however, is still within the gender binary. When it comes to non-binary identities, there is an extra challenge, since Catholic teaching traditionally operates with two genders, and only two. This will not change (since it is dogma), but it is important to remember that this teaching is metaphysical. It means that after the resurrection of the dead, the glorified bodies will be either male or female. However, in our current state, there are intersex people, as we have known for millennia. The traditional Catholic understanding has always been that intersex people are either male or female, but that this can't always be determined.

In the same way, since we now know that brains also are gendered, it is quite possible that some brains are somewhere in between male and female. In these cases, the person would still according to Catholic doctrine be either male or female, but there would be no way of really knowing which. Should they be forced to accept an identity, when that acceptance would be no more than a guess anyways? I say no. Just as some intersex people simply identify as intersex, agender or bigender people are equally justified in identifying as something "in between". It is perfectly consistent with the fact that our current biology is not as neatly ordered as it was according to the genesis narrative, or is going to be after the resurrection, according to eschatology.

That said, when discipline eventually is changed (and I'm convinced it will be) to allow post-op transsexuals to marry or be ordained (the latter is less likely but still possible), it is unlikely that non-binary people will be allowed the same. But that says nothing about standing, and nothing about sin. People (Catholics as much as non-Catholics, conservatives as well as liberals) too often confuse impediments to marriage or ordination with condemnation. A century or two ago, someone who had served in the military was not allowed to become a priest. That does not mean the Church condemned military service.

Lastly, most of us believe gender identity (be it binary or not) to be innate, not just taught us by society, but something we're born with. Yes, expressions of gender may change depending on culture (what is feminine now may have been masculine centuries ago), but we feel the way we do not because we choose to, but because we were born this way. This is perfectly consistent with Christian teaching. Amusingly, some conservatives turn into radical feminists when faced with this...

I hope this can help a bit, at least as starting points for them to nuance their views. The problem with many conservative Catholics is that they just assume that the Church condemns anything that is out of the ordinary, not bothering to actually investigate. Even worse, this is sadly true for many priests and bishops too. But the reality is that there is essentially no doctrine about this, just discipline. Which means the individual believer is free to form their own opinion. But simultaneously, they're not free to make their view binding on others, especially if it is prohibitive - that would be one of the gravest sins of them all, the same sin of which the Pharisees were guilty.

Thank you so much, Rina. I actually had no idea that the document you mention existed, nor that SRS could be considered theologically "permissible in extreme cases." I hadn't thought of historicising the issue in terms of how the church has changed its views on transgender and transsexual issues, and you've given me some excellent starting points. I agree that it's a bit more difficult to define things for non-binary identities; indeed, even getting people to "believe" one has a non-binary identity can be very difficult, since some people will interpret being bi-gender (to use my example) as simply being confused. Bi-gender, for me, does not mean a 50/50 split, since I would, given a choice, live as a female, and I am considering beginning HRT. I would rather, given the choice, live as a female who has begun transition, though I have no plans for SRS/GAS at present. So I would frame all of this around more general trans* issues than a specifially non-binary identity when speaking to my family, if I get the opportunity to discuss this with them. Discussion isn't something I'm guaranteed to get a chance with, unfortunately, since too often generalised religious notions overshadow my family's views of everything, and nuance is not always going to work. But this does give me something to work with, and so thanks again for your time in posting it.
"The time will come / when, with elation / you will greet yourself arriving / at your own door, in your own mirror / and each will smile at the other's welcome, / and say, sit here. Eat. / You will love again the stranger who was your self./ Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart / to itself, to the stranger who has loved you / all your life, whom you ignored" - Walcott, "Love after Love"
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