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When to practice/switch to femme voice?

Started by LadyoftheRockies, August 16, 2014, 12:09:19 AM

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LadyoftheRockies

Hey all,

So I'm fortunate enough to be able to see a speech therapist that specializes in trans voice training and I'm finding that technically I am very proficient at finding a good femme voice through keeping my larynx raised, using a bit of narrowing pressure, and dropping my jaw, but my problem is mental. I'm a perfectionist and I don't want to mess up, so much so that it keeps me from trying to use it and practice with my partners or even just a random cashier.

Do you have any tips on how to practice and when to use my voice? I feel so anxious when I go out even to get groceries in a skirt that the thought of trying to get a reasonably good sounding "thank you" is terrifying.

Thank you all for your support :)

-LotR
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Kassie

Unfortunately I am still learning as well so I am no help
Sounds like you got pretty lucky wherever you are located in fortunately I cannot tell you hopefully some other people will chime in  through out the next couple days and perhaps you should ask your voice coach
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LadyoftheRockies

I have asked my coach and haven't really received a definite response. Btw, I can't respond to private messages at this point.

Cheers,
LotR
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Kassie

Okay I'm sorry I am still fairly new as well but good luck  people will respond to you within the next few days that's  what  happens when I post out here
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Samantha6string

I tend to practice every day driving to work/uni and back.

when to use it, I'm still presenting as male, so, I don't go full higher pitch, if my male voice was 1, falsetto was 10 and female was 7ish I usually talk to people at about a 4-5 at the moment. (horrible indicator I know, sorry)

I find it helps me not drop back in terms of training and if anything makes it easier coming back up to proper pitch.
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Misha

From what I've read it usually takes 2-3 years of practice before you get a stable and naturally sounding female voice. This may be much shorter if you used to or still sing a lot (that helps to develop the voice range a lot).

In general it comes down to two things: pitch and modulation. The most basic and easiest technique to increase your pitch is to see how high you can get your "aaaaaah" vocal or the "do-re-mi..." without the voice getting distorted or when you feel pressure in your eyes or forehead (make sure you stop there). BTW this practice should be limited to 5 minutes tops per day (depends on source though) I believe to prevent issues that might cause you end up with a voice therapist for voicebox damage :-( . Try to put your finger on your adam's apple to see how it goes up.

Don't overdo the pitch though. Male and female voice have a common area that should be enough but I'll be honest, I went slightly higher myself. Modulation is the next important thing however I can't help you with that. There seem to be some variances in the techniques based on language. Since I'm fairly good at imitating voices I just listened to other women and tried to pick what would sound good for me. I also used to sing as a kid (no real performance because of anxiety though :-) ) and even through and after puberty I maintained quite a good voice range.

Some time ago I ran into this online series made by a trans-woman about changing voice from male to female and it seems pretty good. It also covers all the aspects (although I saw just first two episodes):

http://acting.wonderhowto.com/how-to/change-your-voice-from-male-female-211158/
Semi-blind asperger transwoman. But do I care? No I don't. I love myself :-) .
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Misha on August 16, 2014, 02:54:57 AM
From what I've read it usually takes 2-3 years of practice before you get a stable and naturally sounding female voice. This may be much shorter if you used to or still sing a lot (that helps to develop the voice range a lot).

Sorry, can't agree with this.

Once I figured out exactly how to hold my throat, it was easy and quick to make my voice sound female. (And I'm not a singer).

I did my practicing when I was in the car alone.

I had a voice coach after the fact who did more harm than good. I think she was afraid I'd stop going to her, so she didn't want to say anything that would give me confidence.

Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Jennygirl

omg suzi that is terrible! some help :P

also +1 to practicing in the car
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Rachel

I practice in the car to and from work too.

I have a card for a voice coach and plan on calling next week, my therapist suggested it.

Rockies, would your coach be Kathe Perez? She is in the Denver area. I use her program and I meet her at the PTHC in June, She is fantastic.

HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas in 2020 FEMLAR
  • skype:Rachel?call
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Misha

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 16, 2014, 06:31:54 AM
Sorry, can't agree with this.

Once I figured out exactly how to hold my throat, it was easy and quick to make my voice sound female. (And I'm not a singer).

I probably won't agree with those figures in the end myself. After 9 months of practice I reached a voice I like and only need to stabilize it. Then again on the other side there are trans-women that needed a surgery in the end. That's the problem with aggregated data :-) .

The good thing about the pitch practice is that it moves adam's apple up. For me it's hidden behind the lower jaw for like two months now so I don't have to care about that either. Before I thought about a reduction surgery.
Semi-blind asperger transwoman. But do I care? No I don't. I love myself :-) .
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Jane's Sweet Refrain

Hey, RockyLady,

I'm been full time for over a year and have a very good voice.  I can remember the performance anxiety. That will fade with practice, and the consequences for failure are small. I also endorse car-talk as a great way of multi-tasking. To this day, I still listen to the female reporters on NPR and mimic their modulation and pitch (if you have the resonance then this is a good exercise). Since media folks tend to exaggerate certain feature, this exercise works well when we dial it back for daily speech. A fringe benefit was that I sounded great when I did a radio show with a colleague last year.

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LadyoftheRockies

Cynthia, sorry, nope, I'm in the Portland area now!

Anywho, much appreciated all! My pitch and tone are pretty spot on at this point but it just needs some polishing.

jane's sweet refrain, I totally do that too!!
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Foxglove

Quote from: Misha on August 16, 2014, 02:54:57 AM
From what I've read it usually takes 2-3 years of practice before you get a stable and naturally sounding female voice. This may be much shorter if you used to or still sing a lot (that helps to develop the voice range a lot).

Well, if so, I must be exceptionally gifted.  And if that's the case, then it's the only thing I've ever discovered myself to be exceptionally gifted at.

I've read a lot of advice as to how to develop a nice female voice--voice coaches, etc.--and I have to admit the advice I've seen totally baffles me because I myself found it completely unnecessary.  Complete waste of time and money.  It's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be.  Now I admit I have two big natural advantages:

(1) My natural voice isn't terribly low--obviously male, but not excessively so.  As a result, I don't have to pitch my voice much higher to achieve a very female pitch--a moderately low female voice, true, but clearly a female voice nonetheless.

(2) I live in Ireland with a very noticeable American accent.  I'm convinced the result of this is that I don't need to worry about a "female modulation".  People pick up on my foreign accent straightaway, and that's what they focus on.

That said, I myself believe the importance of the voice is vastly over-rated, and a friend of mine (a veteran at this game who speaks in her natural tone, which is fairly low) agrees with me.  The way I see it, your presentation is comprised of many different factors, and so long as "the overall package" is convincing, you're not going to give yourself away over one or two little things, assuming they're not excessively male.  E.g., my hands are slightly big (though not excessively so) and my shoulders are a bit broad (though not excessively so).  So as long as my overall look is good, those two things aren't going to give me away.

As a matter of fact, I was just discussing this question the other night with a girlfriend of mine.  She's fairly new to the game, and she's feeling very insecure about a number of things, her voice being one of the main ones.  Now I told her honestly I don't think she needs to worry about it much.  If she were presenting as a guy, people would definitely hear a male voice.  But her overall presentation is quite good, the result being that this one factor isn't a killer.  A low voice, yes, but quite a few women have low voices.  I hear women's voices fairly often that are lower than mine.

I also told her that if she wants to pitch it higher, my own experience has convinced me that that's not really very hard to do.  My own method was to buy a voice recorder.  You need to remember that you don't hear your voice the way other people do.  They hear your voice through their ears, whereas you hear it mainly through your throat.  The result is that your voice sounds very different to you than it does to others.

That's why it's important to have a voice recorder.  That way you can hear your voice the way other people hear it.  What I would do was just to read from a book into the recorder--a light book, easy to read, nothing difficult, nothing that you have to focus on.  You don't want to have to pay any attention to the actual words.  You want to focus on pitching your voice where you want it.

Start out high, virtually in a falsetto.  Then gradually bring it down to where you're comfortable with it.  Pitched too high, it sounds phoney--or as I put it, it sounds "->-bleeped-<-".  So bring it down to where you can get comfortable with it and where it sounds acceptable on the recorder.  I quickly found my level and quickly got the hang of it.  It's habit with me now.  I use my new voice spontaneously, even when people catch me off-guard by speaking to me and requiring a response before I even have time to think about what I'm saying.  I've never once screwed up by speaking in my natural voice--and let's hope that continues.

I've found that just as you need to develop confidence in your overall presentation, walk, etc., you need to develop confidence in your voice.  A lot of times my voice sounds "->-bleeped-<-" to me.  But I always remind myself that other people aren't hearing what I'm hearing, so I don't lower my pitch.  I stick with the pitch that I developed with practice.

I'll also say that I believe it's unnecessary to worry about modulation.  People have so many ways of talking that I can't believe something like that is going to give you away.

Anyway, that's my experience and my advice.  You're perfectly free, of course, to disregard everything I've said if you think it's bunk.  I'll also say that if you have a really deep voice, my method might not be any good for you.  In that case, professional help might truly be necessary.  So as usual, do what you need to do and don't let yourself be guided by someone else's experience if it doesn't apply to you.

Good luck,
Foxglove
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katiej

I agree with most here that voice wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be.  I've been practicing in the car for only a month or so, and I already have a pitch/resonance that I'm pretty happy with.  I've been a singer all my life, and I think that definitely helped.

What I'm still lacking is the female speech patterns and how they emphasize words/ideas differently.  Anybody have advice for working on that?
"Before I do anything I ask myself would an idiot do that? And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." --Dwight Schrute
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Jane's Sweet Refrain

It makes me happy to hear that voice came easily for so many of my wonderful sisters her. But, Rocky Lady, I just want to add my (totally passing female) voice to say that it took longer for me. And I was a singer. And I was putting in my hours. It's okay if it's a slog and not an instant success.

I also still think voice is important for passing. I don't want that to intensify your anxiety, but it's sure has been worth it to me to keep practicing. A great voice can easily carry a face and body that might still be feminizing.

Good luck,

Jane
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Foxglove

Hi, Jane (Sweet Refrain!  I like that),

I thought I'd reply to your post by way of clarifying my position.  After I posted last night, I thought perhaps I'd come on a bit stronger than I should have, so maybe I should clarify a bit.

Quote from: Jane's Sweet Refrain on August 17, 2014, 05:31:02 AM
It makes me happy to hear that voice came easily for so many of my wonderful sisters her. But, Rocky Lady, I just want to add my (totally passing female) voice to say that it took longer for me. And I was a singer. And I was putting in my hours. It's okay if it's a slog and not an instant success.

I was of course speaking from my own circumstances.  It was easy for me.  I recognize, though, that it might not be so easy for others, and if that's the case you certainly have my sympathy.  If you need to do some things that weren't necessary for me, by all means go at it if you're inclined to.

Quote from: Jane's Sweet Refrain on August 17, 2014, 05:31:02 AMI also still think voice is important for passing. I don't want that to intensify your anxiety, but it's sure has been worth it to me to keep practicing.

I may have sounded like I was saying that I don't consider the voice important.  I do.  That's why I myself worked on it--and quite frankly I don't understand why some people don't.  But that's up to them.  If they're comfortable where they are, that's entirely their decision.

No, what I'm trying to say is that your voice is simply one item in the whole package.  Make it as good as you can, but if it's still not as good as you'd like it to be, don't despair for that one reason alone.  If your presentation on the whole is good, then I don't think that one factor that's not as good as you wish it could be will completely undermine you.

I have a number of problems with my presentation, but I get by because on the whole I look OK.  I've had to work hard on a number of things.  The voice was one thing I worked on, but there I was lucky: it didn't cost me nearly as much effort as some other things did.
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Jane's Sweet Refrain

Quote from: Foxglove on August 17, 2014, 06:06:49 AM
Hi, Jane (Sweet Refrain!  I like that),

I thought I'd reply to your post by way of clarifying my position.  After I posted last night, I thought perhaps I'd come on a bit stronger than I should have, so maybe I should clarify a bit.

I was of course speaking from my own circumstances.  It was easy for me.  I recognize, though, that it might not be so easy for others, and if that's the case you certainly have my sympathy.  If you need to do some things that weren't necessary for me, by all means go at it if you're inclined to.

I may have sounded like I was saying that I don't consider the voice important.  I do.  That's why I myself worked on it--and quite frankly I don't understand why some people don't.  But that's up to them.  If they're comfortable where they are, that's entirely their decision.

No, what I'm trying to say is that your voice is simply one item in the whole package.  Make it as good as you can, but if it's still not as good as you'd like it to be, don't despair for that one reason alone.  If your presentation on the whole is good, then I don't think that one factor that's not as good as you wish it could be will completely undermine you.

I have a number of problems with my presentation, but I get by because on the whole I look OK.  I've had to work hard on a number of things.  The voice was one thing I worked on, but there I was lucky: it didn't cost me nearly as much effort as some other things did.

Hi, I'm totally sorry. I didn't mean for a second to sound like I was challenging. I was just trying to be encouraging. And I completely agree that voice is just one element in the whole package. And confidence, as you rightly say, carries us where perfect presentation may not.

I should probably stop writing before coffee in the morning. No one wants to hear my pre-coffee voice. It's terribly terrible.

;D
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Emmaline

I try reading a book everyday in the morning as high as I can to get my vocal chords strengthened.  I have only just started, but my wife says I am getting pretty close to female.
Body... meet brain.  Now follow her lead and there will be no more trouble, you dig?



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rosinstraya

I've played around with my voice for years......but I do need to do some proper practice. Case in point- went out for a stroll locally and a neighbour was chatting with 3-4 others on the pavement. She said hello (I was en femme) and my best response was a throaty "Hiiii!" and a little wave. Didn't come across at all self-conscious.... :icon_eyebrow:
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