Quote from: aaggat on August 16, 2014, 05:34:42 AM
Well, in UK Gender Clinics full time (or RLE) means committing yourself to your female identity and publicly living as that identity. It has nothing to do with clothes. The shrinks mainly look for:

- Legal change of name
- Telling doctors, banks, government, tax authorities, employer, etc about your new name and gender
- Ideally, letters or emails from friends and family. Supportive or hostile, either will do

They like an evidence trail in terms of continuous documentation such as bank statements, pay slips and so forth. The more paperwork the better. The reasoning goes that if you change your life's paperwork then you cannot really hide your transition.

What you wear and how you look are your choices.

Well, that might be so in the UK, wish I lived there I woulda' transitioned in the summer of 2000 when I turned 18. But, it's not so easy in America and not only is money an issue, but in many states changing your name let alone your gender is harder than jumping thru moving rings of fire while walking a tight rope. Then, if maybe you had very severe dysphoria or whatever you want to call it, and turned to drugs to lessen the emotional pain because you were never able to play male or disconnect yourself from your emotions, chances are you have a criminal record. Maybe you overcame that. I did. But America isn't as free as people like to say. [Insert rant here]. And your past follows you like starving shadow waiting to strike. Or, maybe when the economy collapsed, your industry, which you excelled at, women's magazine editing or publishing in general, plummeted, leaving you in financial upheaval. Now you have a judgement. In PA, well, you have to get rid of that before a name change.

So, even though I live full-time as a woman, even though I will have SRS next October if all goes right, the name change is going to be hard. I don't even pass as a man without makeup and in men's clothes, but according to UK definitions I'd be less full-time than someone who just started transitioning, never appears in public as female but only changed their name and gender (cause it's easy there) and there work accepts that. I'm not bashing that or putting anyone down or saying I'm more female than anyone else (I'm just a little irked cause I just learned about all this).

So, would I be full-time or female in society even though no one believes I'm a man, people ask me why I don't have kids or why am not married, just because of arbitary words on some legal documents nobody ever sees?

PS: I'm sorry in advance if someone takes offense to this, as it's not my intention. I just needed to rant. I think it's wonderful peeps can change their names and gender. I just wish I could too.

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 16, 2014, 03:01:32 AM
For me it meant:
1. Never presenting male.
2. Continuing to improve my wardrobe, hair, face, etc.
3. Never using my birth name unless legally required to do so.
4. Taking the appropriate steps to change my name and gender marker.

As for makeup, I never bother.  I have severe problems with hand-eye coordination which would actually make me less passable if I tried it; I pass just fine with no makeup at all though I might eventually try some mascara and eye shadow since those don't require drawing straight lines (i.e. eyeliner, lipstick) or applying precise amounts in an even coat (i.e. foundation); those are tasks I have had lifelong difficulties with (my handwriting looks like an eight-year-old).

Other than for lipstick, nail polish, and possibly mascara; I think that makeup looks rediculous and makes one look like a painted @@**##.

Quote from: mac1 on August 16, 2014, 01:55:53 PM
Other than for lipstick, nail polish, and possibly mascara; I think that makeup looks rediculous and makes one look like a painted @@**##.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you do realize the cosmetics industry rakes in $170+ billion yearly. The majority of those sales are women. Ulta netted $3 billion alone last year. So, statistics and facts don't lie, women like (if not love) makeup. In a study, 90 percent of women would not go on a first date without makeup. The figure is similar, if not slightly higher, for job interviews.

Some women have natural beauty and don't need it, like my best friend from college. She was model pretty. All my friends wear makeup. I was once in a car with my ex and everyone was playing with makeup and my ex's friend said "Joanna, this is what girls do when they're bored. Here, try my eyeliner, it looks like you forgot yours." The implication being I'm a girl. I get that, got that actually, since I was, well, forever.

So while you may find that makeup makes women looks freakish or whatevr those symbols meant, it was kinda insulting to women who like makeup. I'm sure that wasn't your intention but makeup applied correctly hardly makes one look like a clown or freak. I pass with or without it but I wear it because I like it. No love it. Always have. Always worn it. So, yeah, I'm just saying.

I know it's popular or a thing for some trans women to say wearing makeup is a steroetype but I think that is misogynistic and puts down women for just wanting to look their best and usually it is just for us. My BF asked why I like it so much, cause he doesn't like it, most men don't, cause most men don't spend time on beauty and fashion sites, but in Iran makeup sales are booming so this is hardly some Western thing. Women the world over like it. We shouldn't be shamed for it.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 16, 2014, 02:13:20 PM

. . . I pass with or without it but I wear it because I like it. No love it. Always have. Always worn it. . .

Women the world over like it. We shouldn't be shamed for it.

I'm with you, Sister, 100%.  I love my makeup.  "Don't leave home without it!"

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 16, 2014, 02:13:20 PM

I know it's popular or a thing for some trans women to say wearing makeup is a steroetype but I think that is misogynistic and puts down women for just wanting to look their best and usually it is just for us. My BF asked why I like it so much, cause he doesn't like it, most men don't, cause most men don't spend time on beauty and fashion sites, but in Iran makeup sales are booming so this is hardly some Western thing. Women the world over like it. We shouldn't be shamed for it.

I agree. If I could, I'd wear makeup... If I only knew how to apply it!!

Quote from: Auroramarianna on August 16, 2014, 02:44:01 PM
I agree. If I could, I'd wear makeup... If I only knew how to apply it!!

It isn't hard, not nearly as hard as you might think.  When I started out, I was in despair.  I've got the clumsiest hands anybody's ever had, and I'm the least artistic person you'll ever see.  But I got the hang of it.  Took me a few months, but I got there.  I'll never forget the day I got it absolutely right for the first time.  I looked in the mirror and I was blown away.  "Wow!  That's me, the real me!"  I'd never seen myself before.  It's quite an experience.

Look for videos on YouTube.  There's thousands of them, lots of them for young girls just starting out and who don't know anything about it.  You might take it step by step--moisturizer, foundation, powder, blush, etc.  Get each one right and the whole looks good.

Another bit of advice: keep it as simple as possible at the beginning.  Do only what you need to do to look good.  Once you're confident with the basics, then you can go further if you want to.  I've never actually gone further myself.  I'm very satisfied with the results I've achieved, so why worry?

@Joanna Dark - Well, changing your name is easy (save for the court costs) in most US states IF you don't have a criminal record or large debts. Like you said if you have issues like those against you it can be harder to get a name change approved (since those are legitimate reasons for a judge to deny your name change), and in those cases you have to hope for a sympathetic judge who'd grant the change in spite of your record (unless the law bars a name change in your case altogether).

Quote from: tgchar21 on August 16, 2014, 03:36:59 PM
@Joanna Dark - Well, changing your name is easy (save for the court costs) in most US states IF you don't have a criminal record or large debts. Like you said if you have issues like those against you it can be harder to get a name change approved (since those are legitimate reasons for a judge to deny your name change), and in those cases you have to hope for a sympathetic judge who'd grant the change in spite of your record (unless the law bars a name change in your case altogether).

Well upon reading the law ( www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=54&div=0&chpt=7 ), it doesn't say anything about misdemeanors, which are the only crimes I have ever committed, and petty ones at that. One step above a speeding ticket. It states that it applies to "convicted felons" (do a CTRL F and search felon), so maybe that doesn't apply to me. But there's is still the judgement. I guess I could pay that or enter into an agreement with BoA to have it lifted or at least, get a letter from them that the change is okay and that they have been notified. It's a $4K debt. So I'd need a grand to settle and have it lifted. I think.

But I dont want to derail the thread with my issues. I live in Philly so I'm lucky in that I can go to Mazzoni and they have a legal dept. that will help me free of charge.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 16, 2014, 02:13:20 PM
........................

I know it's popular or a thing for some trans women to say wearing makeup is a steroetype but I think that is misogynistic and puts down women for just wanting to look their best and usually it is just for us. My BF asked why I like it so much, cause he doesn't like it, most men don't, cause most men don't spend time on beauty and fashion sites, but in Iran makeup sales are booming so this is hardly some Western thing. Women the world over like it. We shouldn't be shamed for it.

Personally I think that women look better natural than they do with all of the makeup that some use.

Quote from: mac1 on August 16, 2014, 07:00:20 PM
Personally I think that women look better natural than they do with all of the makeup that some use.

I just use eyeliner and a light touch of foundation

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 16, 2014, 04:00:26 PM
Well upon reading the law ( www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=54&div=0&chpt=7 ), it doesn't say anything about misdemeanors, which are the only crimes I have ever committed, and petty ones at that. One step above a speeding ticket. It states that it applies to "convicted felons" (do a CTRL F and search felon), so maybe that doesn't apply to me. But there's is still the judgement. I guess I could pay that or enter into an agreement with BoA to have it lifted or at least, get a letter from them that the change is okay and that they have been notified. It's a $4K debt. So I'd need a grand to settle and have it lifted. I think.

But I dont want to derail the thread with my issues. I live in Philly so I'm lucky in that I can go to Mazzoni and they have a legal dept. that will help me free of charge.

I think with judgments as long as you notify the debtor that you're seeking to change your name you should be OK (the court's concern is that you may be trying to escape the debt, and if they know your new name that's not a problem).

For me, the difference in seeing  a guy in the mirror and a woman, is mascara...  It's crazy the difference it makes!

Quote from: mac1 on August 16, 2014, 07:00:20 PM
Personally I think that women look better natural than they do with all of the makeup that some use.

Oh and that's perfectly cool. I agree in fact. Sometimes women go overboard cause of insecurities, boredom, all kinds of things. I know I did at first and my BF didn't say anything then but he has said that he's so thankful I wear so much less now or at least know what I'm doing cause I looked bad with all of it on and i went from being pretty and passable with a little to looking like a bad circus clown without it. Too much can hinder you're passing ability.

So now worries.Hope I wasn't too harsh I didn't mean to be Mac1.

Personally, I enjoy dresses and always have and skirts with the right blouse. I enjoy those more than jeans which I wore forever as a guy anyway.

I'm fortunate that I am not big boned, just a bit tall at 5'10" but not so tall as to demand excessive attention. My goto makeup during the day is just a light foundation, and a very toned down lipstick that doesn't scream at people. As the facial hair removal proceeds, I hope to eventually just skip the foundation, or reduce it even further, and just choose a basic lipstick that isn't too loud. My daughter has been trying to get me to just do eyeliner daily but I've not adopted that yet. She does, without eye shadow at all, and it looks good on her. Maybe I'll get braver.

Quote from: stephaniec on August 16, 2014, 11:52:15 AM
I just noticed your hanging out with the kat

Cougar, that is. I thought it was an entirely appropriate picture.

I always saw full-time as meaning that you are open about being female to everyone (or almost everyone) in your day-to-day life, such that if you met anyone new, you would introduce yourself to them a a woman.

How you dress, act etc. doesn't seem as important...