I think it's safe to say most of us accidentally said something, caught ourselves, then thought, "OMG I hope I didn't screw anything up!" And yeah, the botox injection isn't altogether pleasant, though compared to the pain when waking up post-op, it was a walk in the park.

Dr. Kim noticed some redness around my suture site during my post-op check up and also prescribed additional meds; I think it was another 5 days worth or so. He also instructed me to stay totally silent an additional week, just in case.

It's a trip to hear your voice for the first time. Your vocal cords will definitely feel different from what it was before. Just relax and keep your vocal cords loose. It'll be hoarse, and maybe still sound low-ish compared to what you hope for the final result, but that's from the swelling and the botox. Just give it time and also remember that it'll be the lowest you'll ever hear it, and should be higher than the lowest you could go before.

Cheers!

CoderMarissa you are right on the five days of additional medication, though with me he didn't say anything about being totally silent for another week.  The pain of the Botox for me was actually worse than the pain I felt with the surgery, go figure. lol  The worse thing for me so far was the effects of the general anesthesia, that by far really stunk for me.  I tried speaking a few words on Monday and you are so right about it being trippie.  It was very weak and hoarse but definitely at a much higher pitch.  I can't wait for the healing to be done so I can start to hear what it really will sound like.  I have not said anything since then as I want to be a good girl and not push it, but it's going to be a lot harder than I thought it would be.

Okay here is my before the operation and the recording I just did at four weeks post-op.  Please let me know what you all think, and is this much hoarseness and weakness common?

https://soundcloud.com/user1152848/before-operation
https://soundcloud.com/user1152848/four-weeks-after-surgery

Hi Amy Lynn (good choice of names )
I think in the post op recording you are sounding like you are trying to force the new voice down to your old pitch. maybe this is subconscious. You are even using a lot of vocal fry to do this. Part of it certainly is from the hoarseness and weakness that is normal after only 4 weeks. I think 8 weeks would be the date to have a better voice and 3 months where it can be clear again. I would in your case think you should follow that advice I heard some people have been given by Yesons - to deliberately talk higher pitched now, so the voice and the brain can settle on the new voice. Other than that - get mor voice rest

This recording I made a conscious effort to try to stay very relaxed and just let the voice out as it would come.  Definitely less hoarse sounding, so I guess I need to stay focused on maintaining a soft volume and remain relaxed.  They never told me to deliberately talk in a higher pitch though, and I wouldn't want to sound fake, so if I do maybe it will be when I talk to myself. lol

https://soundcloud.com/user1152848/4-1

The new recording sounds good. Can definitely hear a difference. Congrats

Yes the new recording sounds good

As others have said, it is indeed a lot about relaxation- I even heard this from Dr. Kim himself!

Good luck with recovery! And please do remember that one of the largest parts is to learn how to use your new voice. Never give up hope, Dr. Kim has undoubtedly worked his magic on you and now it is in your court to train the rest of the way.

You'll have good voice days and bad voice days for months to come. Stick with it, expect to learn a lot, and you'll be very happy with your result!

Thank you so much for posting your experience, I definitely have some issues like tremor and not being able to sustain notes properly.

At present I have a provisional date of 7th Oct for consultation and 8th October for surgery. I had a VFS procedure done before in Japan and am not really sure if it was botched or what because my voice was / is terrible since about 3 months after the operation in May 2011. The doctor I used seems to have disappeared off the map and the clinic no longer offers VFS which is making me more worried

I need to send some voice samples to Yeson and then my schedule will be confirmed.

As Jenny said the 2nd recording sounds much better

Thank you girls for the kind words, it means a lot to get some honest feedback. I find my voice seems to be getting better every day, and now I understand some about the talking higher thing. If I try to talk like I used to it sounds horrible and very strained, it also quickly causes discomfort. As long as I keep my throat relaxed and talk at a higher tone (nothing ridiculous mind you) then there is no strain and no discomfort. I'm amazed how quickly I have adapted to this new way of talking, and now have to make a conscious effort to talk the old way.

So it sounds a bit like the VFS is acting like a reminder to you - if you talk the old was, it gets uncomfy, if you talk a bit higher, it is all good - Hopefully this will not take a conscious effort? Is it easier now to talk at a higher pitch than before the surgery?
We are looking forward to newer recordings then with a more relaxed voice and using a pitch that works for you eithout effort but still in a good zone

It is much easier to talk in a higher pitch now than it was before, and it is pretty much automatic.  One thing I would like to get feedback from people who have had the surgery is it normal for your pitch to drop again some before going back up?  I just did another recording and it sounds closer to my old voice than the others. :-( :-(  I'm not going to let this phase me too much as I know Dr. Kim said the main improvements would be between two and four months.  Anyhoo, here is the recording I did today.

https://soundcloud.com/user1152848/40-days-post-op

Have you analyzed the pitch in praat? to get an idea? I cannot download it from soundcloud, so I cannot load it in praat. only vocaroo seems to allow downloads.
It sounds not too bad - not worse than before I think but it still could use some improvement I think. Did you try jus tusing a higher pitch for reading? If it is comfortable and automatic, what if you apply it with not much effort? does it sound better then?

I have a problem with understanding Praat and haven't taken the time yet to get to know it.  I have changed the permissions on my recordings so you can download them if you wish.  When I was reading I didn't concentrate on anything other than trying to speak in my normal voice as it comes to me now.  Here is one with me focusing on raising the pitch some, but still within a comfortable range.

https://soundcloud.com/user1152848/40-days-post-op-part-2

The elevated pitch one is good, but I think it is less because you are actually elevating pitch a bit, but because you are concentrating on the voice more. I think what happens there is that you are controlling the resonance and timbre along with the bit of pitch increase (from about 180 average to about 200 Hz average). Both pitches are in the female range, but I noticed in both recordings that at the end of a sentence you can go very low in pitch. In the first it was down at 120 Hz which should be about your lowest possible note, in the other it was at 150 Hz which is I think still a bit low. Thos excursions into the low range are not the best thing to do, in voice training one tries to rather keep the ends of sentences at a higher pitch, sometimes even going up or just going down a bit. But that is a voice training thing, I believe. Still it shows that you still can go to 120 Hz when speaking.

What you could try to do now is to use your relaxed speaking voice, the first of the last two recordings but apply the voice control you used in the second recording, but not care so much about the pitch. It should be able to give you a relaxed voice that has a better timbre and resonance.

Thank you anja for the information, it is greatly appreciated and I will try your suggestions.  I guess a change from 137 Hz to 180 /200 Hz isn't too bad for right now.  Dr. Kim said that he figured my average would end up being about 211 Hz.

Amy Lynn,

Wow, I found your posts and your voice sounds great!  Such an improvement with more to come if the previous post hold true.  Is Dr. Kim still around $7,500?

How long did you stay in Seoul?

Best wishes, Sarah

Agreed with anjaq. Yeson's work does improve the timbre - in fact I'd go as far as to suggest that those who find the c. 1 month period difficult, might be affected more by the timbre being similar to their old voice than the pitch. This would be expected with swelling, and as it subsides the pitch/timbre reach their new natural state which is much more "resonant" (or perhaps, something to which one can engage the sinus/forehead/skull resonance.)

My own observations are that timbre (not the same thing as resonance), diction, and prosody have the foremost role in a feminine-sounding voice. We emphasize pitch pitch pitch here, which no doubt is important, but if you listen to some female radio DJs, it's common to hear them regularly speak as low as ~100hz and not sound at all masculine because of their innate vocal timbre, combined with how they speak. If anything they sound extremely soothing. But they're also generally able to speak up to ~300hz in their highest peaks of melodic speech, and sound very natural & unforced doing so.

Also concentrating on a program that gives you mechanical readings seems counterproductive to me. Voices are supposed to feel, not measure - to represent our feelings and how we feel. If you want to train new habits into your voice, I'd base them around concentrating on total relaxation and sounding beautiful  Then when you speak in your daily life the use of your voice will be a positive feedback loop with confidence!

Quote from: Rachelicious on September 01, 2014, 07:17:21 AM
if you listen to some female radio DJs, it's common to hear them regularly speak as low as ~100hz and not sound at all masculine because of their innate vocal timbre, combined with how they speak. If anything they sound extremely soothing. But they're also generally able to speak up to ~300hz in their highest peaks of melodic speech, and sound very natural & unforced doing so.

Yes definitely and this is what people keep telling me - I should not do voice surgery but rather train my voice to sound more female at a lower pitch as well, just like those radio moderators or actresses - and to train to use a 300 Hz pitch without effort or straining. In voice therapy we are tryin to get that, but I am not sure if it really can work with the wrong instrument at its base.

QuoteIf you want to train new habits into your voice, I'd base them around concentrating on total relaxation and sounding beautiful  Then when you speak in your daily life the use of your voice will be a positive feedback loop with confidence!

Definitely. An I can imagine if pitch and timbre then are changed by a surgery and are not giving a negative feeling, this can work well.
For me it already does in the past weeks. I did voice rehab to relax my voice and sound healthy and maybe also a bit beautiful even if the pitch is really in the low range, I can use higher pitches for single words. People tell me my voice is quite good now, especially compared to last year when it was still broken from tryint to raise the pitch all the time. I accepted now that my pitch at this time is lower and tried to relax and focus on a nice voice and it really is better. I still would love it if I would not have that timbre that bugs me - I am unsure now though if it is really a true male quality - I was told at times that my voice is actually quite soothing because of its low pitch and timbre. It is something I might actually miss a bit if I change it surgically. I dont know.

Quote from: anjaq on September 01, 2014, 03:44:25 PM
Yes definitely and this is what people keep telling me - I should not do voice surgery but rather train my voice to sound more female at a lower pitch as well, just like those radio moderators or actresses - and to train to use a 300 Hz pitch without effort or straining. In voice therapy we are tryin to get that, but I am not sure if it really can work with the wrong instrument at its base.

Exactly. There's a huge psychological difference between having a good sound, and only being able to sound good in certain settings with sufficient concentration.

Quote from: anjaq on September 01, 2014, 03:44:25 PM
People tell me my voice is quite good now, especially compared to last year when it was still broken from tryint to raise the pitch all the time. I accepted now that my pitch at this time is lower and tried to relax and focus on a nice voice and it really is better. I still would love it if I would not have that timbre that bugs me - I am unsure now though if it is really a true male quality - I was told at times that my voice is actually quite soothing because of its low pitch and timbre. It is something I might actually miss a bit if I change it surgically. I dont know.

I can see getting attached to the sound of the part of the voice you can create and use well. It's a comfortable midnight oasis of sorts against a dearth of other options. My position is one of constantly feeling vocally crippled, that my identity suffers because of my vocal condition placing unreasonable limitations on what I can say when and how loud or with what inflection I can say it - that, in turn, leads me to hold myself back, to live passively defined and not wholly authentic simply out of contingency.

So for me the fact that I can sound good doesn't outweigh the lack of freedom and inhibition that's associated with retaining a sultry feminine tone that sounds feminine only in light, limited applications of vocal use.

Yes. I totally get that. I long for such a liberation and freedom to not care at all anymore. I am not sure VFS can totally provide that given that one still has to watch out for some of the parameters that bug me in training right now - inflection, prosody, melody, resonance... but I guess it can go a long way towards being at least partly more free.
I definitel hate it to always be so much aware and a bit frightened about how my voice will come out next when I say something - will it be good or will it be a bit of a mess. sigh. And I dont even dare to rais pitch a lot for intonaton or inflection because I may hit the "break" and then sound silly.