For the past few days, my husband has been very depressed. From what I can tell, it's due to the lack of progress on becoming a woman. I'm sure this is common (since people like to achieve goals as soon as possible) but what I'm not sure about is how to help. It gets more complicated because according to his "specialist" he's classified with  ->-bleeped-<-, which apparently means he doesn't feel he's a woman in a man's body, but is very driven/attracted to being a woman. According to this specialist, he won't feel like putting on women's clothing or wearing makeup until he's on hormones and after the FFS, when he looks much more like a woman. This confuses me because he feels that until he makes this change, calling him a woman is ridiculous, which is apparently why we should continue to treat our marriage as if it is a traditional one right now. But to me if you want to be a woman, then you are a woman. I don't understand how you can want to be a woman but still consider yourself to be a man, and I certainly don't know how to interact him if this is the case.

On top of that the specialist he's seeing has (as far as I know) no credentials in counseling. She's an anesthesiologist and a Dr. in Sexology (is that seriously even a Ph.D. that legit schools give?) but that's it. So how is she supposed to guide him through all the emotional issues which are probably a huge portion of this change? My husband has only told one friend about this, who has admitted to my husband that he has no idea how to help other than being a sympathetic ear. My husband refuses to go to any support groups because "he doesn't find groups helpful," and I was only recently able to convince him to start posting on a forum somewhere, just to get some support. Right now, his only support is from me, and my priorities are our child first, and then trying to navigate through this myself. Add in the fact that I haven't the first clue as to how to help him through this transition other than to tell him to find other people who have already gone through the process and I'm hopelessly confused.

As I think had been said before there is no one size fits all.

If your spouse want some real help and you wish to be supporting find some professional that knows how to deal with gender issues.

I feel you are struggling. You should also find some help dealing. For your marriage and child.

Hugs.

Adwen,

The autogyno ting is a joke and not really recognized by most. He needs to find a different therapist.
starting hormones is not when you start to feel like wearing women's clothes or makeup. It may enhance that feeling or even remove it for that matter.

Adwen, if your SO's therapist's initials are "AL", it's time for them to run away screaming NOW.  This person has no business working with transgender patients and has theories that have been largely discredited.   

Adwen,

I would agree with the others.  Most people disagree with autogyno as anything valid - plenty of flame wars on the net on this one.  If Jill is right - find another person.

It's not a good sign that rather than clearing things, things are being even more muddled.

Good luck!

Adwen

Your situation is very similar to that which many of us have experienced.  At this stage, as many have said, the most critical need is for your husband is to see a gender therapist.  Until they do this, and start to understand their identity they really are not in a position to think or to communicate clearly.

Many of us have been so overwhelmed by dysphoria that when we first sense that we are trans* there is an immediate temptation to believe that we have found the reason for our discomfort and stress, and 'the cure'.  It is rarely this simple.  First we need help to ensure that there is not another issue that needs to be dealt with, then we need to understand, explore, accept and to learn to express our identity.  The thing is,  there are as many identities as there are folk.  Many see this as a spectrum of identity from fully binary M through non binary to fully binary F. 

Determining where they are, whether they are fixed or fluid, whether they need medical or non medical therapy takes time.  It is a journey.  The path can take surprising twists and turns.  I thought that I was mtf, had ffs almost immediately, started transition levels of hrt and dressed as often as I could ...  but I became increasingly discomfited and less enamoured with the whole 'performance' of trying to 'pass'.  With hrt removing my dysphoria and enriching my life, I realised that I had found my sweet spot without a binary transition. 

This has been a difficult and often stressful trip for my spouse, my family and myself.  But now, following beard removal which has taken significant time and money, and a more andro presentation, we are in a very good place.  I feel authentic, I have found myself and we have found each other.

My message is, please try to talk with each other, share your fears, discuss the possibilities and agree to be honest and open.  There will be times when either of you may not truly know where you really are, or are just processing your feelings, but this is ok, just be honest.  The future of your child and the possibility of family and a positive, ongoing relationship, married or not, should be reason enough to find a good gender therapist and the best path forward.

Safe travels

Aisla

Haha. Her initials are indeed A.L. and I couldn't pry my husband away from her even with a crowbar right now. He's read her "textbook" and apparently it describes everything he's thinking/feeling so from what I can tell he thinks she's some kind of godsend. He researched her before going to see her, and even with the iffy online opinion and disapproving review from both my therapist and my psychiatrist he still set up a meeting with her. My husband tends to disregard my opinion on things anyway (he's a bit egocentric) so I know it will only alienate him to argue about whether A.L. is a good choice. One of his complaints is that people who focus more on gender issues are at least a 20 min drive from our house. Apparently he doesn't understand that they're called "specialists" for a reason.

I'm starting to ask around for a good gender therapist for me to see for a few sessions, just to get a better handle on how I can help both my husband and my son adjust in the coming months. Perhaps they'll also have a way for me to wade through all this confusion that meeting with A.L. has thrown into our lives.

On a happier note, for people who like either a cappella or Daft Punk (or both!) check out Pentatonix's daft punk medley on YouTube. It's my son's favorite right now. At 14 months apparently their only form of dancing is to sway like a metronome but it's still cute to watch him get so into music.

Adwen,

Sorry to hear that.  It's awkward - he's looked up dr google, self diagnosed, and gone to see the only person who only gives out one diagnosis, to confirm his own diagnosis. Self affirmiing.  Unfortunately, in my experience there is no reasoning with that so you're stuck with that for the time being.

You have my sympathies.  Just be there.  You're doing the right thing by preparing yourself by seeing someone more specialised.  Insist on seeing the therapist you find as a couple.  It'll help you work out whether or not there is hope for the marriage, and if there isn't, at least be able to part amicably.

And have someone ready to help you legally, I feel things could got either way.

Adwen, I was just curious, and by no means do you have to answer this, because it will alter as things progress, but what would your choice of action be if he goes and gets everything done?

Does he understand what you are planning for yourself once he gets underway?

I didn't post before because I was angry that you've been put in this situation, and though what I had to say might've been a pragmatic choice, it wouldn't have been kind. First comes the good stuff: as a mom, you do the things that need to be done for your sweet boy and yourself to ensure you will both be safe, fed, and housed. You're doing an awesome job so far and kudos for being brave with dealing with all the other stuff while being a new mom!

Next part is the pragmatic stuff: get hold of a lawyer and talk to your bank about what you need done now and what you plan to need for the future. He wants to go ahead with or without you but to drag you and little man in financially? Nu-uh.

He needs to see a certified therapist. I'm not sure that you can go without either. It's hard enough being a new mom, add in this and it's a tough lot. You might get more networking for gender specialists that way too. Perhaps your own therapist might give a certified name some credence he might follow?

Last of all is again to see a lawyer about what you want legally for your little man and yourself in the future if you plan to separate/divorce. (Here's the angry bit: he wants you to fufill wifely duties, then he'll have to figure out what those are. As far as I can see, we live in the 21st century and it's pretty darn equal. Having marital relations with him as a man since his body is still physically one is NOT a duty. If you regard him as a woman now because that's what he wants, you may have an educational moment with him regarding sexual orientation.)

It's a lot easier to sit and spout because I'm not emotionally invested in your relationship, but from one mom to another, your husband currently needs a swift boot to his ass. He's not behaving like a responsible adult in a committed relationship with a child involved. All I can say is that I would have lost my patience by now and probably just left him to his own devices. Support when and how you can, not at tg

Oops! Not at the cost to your son or yourself! (Stupid phone cut me off!) Good luck Adwen!

I think you are handling this really well.  You do need to think of yourself and you both need to think of the baby.  The everything now thing is normal,  but wrong.  You should get him/her to join here. 
From what you say, your understanding is more in line e with current theory than your so's. If I hear autogynaphilia is rings alarm bells, and it likely will with anyone who has anything to do with trans people in the last years.

Your partner needs to understand how lucky he is to have an so who is working with them and foster that as it's much more important to a successful transition than super quick electro.

Good for you for being so well balanced in your thinking.  Have you thought about suggesting that, considering the potential for a turbulent  start financially to the babies life,  that a savings account be made specifically for the baby so that the baby can be provided for regardless of what happens?

I would. I imagine, it would be hard for him/her to categorise that as less important than electro.

Good luck and hugs. 

Kira x

I hear a whole lot of self diagnosing here. I got a lot of that from my wife, as well as from myself. My typical response if I am asked if I know something about X is to say just enough to get myself into deep doggy do-do.

Decades ago during my previous transition attempts I felt like your SO. Who needs groups? They aren't for me. Therapy? Nah, not me. I know I am a ____. No other excuse like access since I lived 2 miles from midtown Manhattan. I guess that is why they turned out to be attempts.

Seven years ago when I was totally desperate about my life in general and rationalized a lot of the root causes for my troubles were how I was Not handling being trans I sought out help. This time the closest sort of help in the form of a TG group was 90 miles away. That first meeting floored me. This all knowing smart ass engineer was rocked to her foundations being in living room filled with others whose life stories, and especially deep scary feelings, were much like mine. Two meetings latter I knew I needed to be there.

Part of this process was also finding at least a TG friendly therapist in short of a 2 1/2 hour drive. All I needed since transition was the furthest thing on my wish list. I can assure you and your SO there is a world of difference between a generalist and a gender specialist. I have to say none of them will work for anyone unless you really want help.

Marriage is a partnership. BOTH of you are (or should be) piloting that ship. While it is nice to think you are in charge of your own lives, you only are to the extent that you remain on that ship together. Once one goes over the side there is only so much the other can do to them back on board. The best approach is to keep from going overboard by working together, protecting each other. My wife and I have both done things the other suggested that we weren't initially thrilled to do. Sometimes, sure, it worked out, other times not so. The not so good consequence of fulfilling the others request is a small price compared to that of totally dismissing their feelings, opinion, wishes, etc.. Essentially dismissing them as important to you.

However, without going into anything different without an open mind will likely end with the much hoped for failed result. I don't hear any I'm willing to see, I don't know for sure, I wish there was another way from your SO, only from you. (Or, should that be room-mate since that appears to be the real relationship from the other sides viewpoint?)

Perhaps, as some others suggested, a little reality therapy is needed?

Adwen - I just want to say that you are doing an amazing job coping with this situation. Your son is very lucky to have a mother like you.

Yes I'm glad one of my son's parents is keeping it together enough to take care of him. I don't know if this is part of the "selfishness" that comes with the new discovery and subsequent introspection, but my husband actually FORGOT that we had a child a couple days ago. I'm not kidding.

My husband had just finished feeding our son dinner, and had handed him his sippy cup of milk. I had "Chuck" ready to watch on the couch (our son normally sits with us to drink his milk) and my husband sat down. He said "Alright let's go." When I just stared at him, my husband asked "What?" and I replied "Didn't you forget something?" He looked confused so I elaborated with "Our son's supposed to be sitting with us." Then my husband said "Oh yeah, I forgot about him." Our son was THREE feet away from my husband, IN eyesight sitting the highchair my husband had just passed by. There are toys strewn all about our living room floor in front of the TV. How on earth could anyone forget about the existence child under those circumstances?!

As I stared at my husband in disbelief, he said "What? Men don't constantly think about their children. Only mothers do that." I can't believe that there are many fathers our there who forget about their children while they're sitting right in front of them. At work, sure I could see that. If he's hanging out with his friends, maybe.

So, all you SO's out there: is this level of self-involvement to be expected for the next couple of months or is something seriously wrong?

I had no idea AL was still practicing. She is indeed a dangerous, misinformed quack with no actual credentials in this regard (and I believe she is unlicensed as well).

As for forgetting your son... if your spouse wants to BE a mother, perhaps they should consider taking that into account?! This sounds like wanting to have one's cake and eat it too; she's a woman unless being a "father" gives him an excuse when it comes to caring for your family.

Jenna's got the gist of it. Really, the self-involvement and lack of consideration seems to be normal. Mine still has the moments where the whole lot of us are ignored. There are 4 of us that are forgotten and I get angry and resentful. I think it's part of the "wiring"? I don't know. I'm very biased on this issue and today happened to have one of those moments so I'm a little grumpy.

some men and some women are simply born as selfish pricks who will never even wonder what the meaning of the word "consideration" might be.

it's not normal for a parent to completely forget about their child. both men and women still do though. quite interesting. very tragic.
do note that it's not only men who don't care enough about their children. women can be just as bad, and the only reason more women are stuck with a child whom they end up neglecting or abusing in other ways, is that they are the ones who give birth, and this means that a whole lot of fathers manage to run away long before the child is born.
my mother left my two oldest brothers when they were very young, because of some new obsession she'd found in the form of a man.
my oldest brother is now honest enough to say that if he ever got the opportunity of his life, and this required him to travel too far away to have his children visit often, he'd leave.
it's not a normal thing in the sense that most people do it, but it's not uncommon to throw away one's family for an obsession.

i told my daughter's father to either pull himself together or get lost when he forgot his daughter's visit (she was too young to remember, luckily). he decided to disappear completely for three years. his problem had nothing to do with being transgender though. he just grew up completely spoiled, and also quite damaged.
the reason i told the guy to scram, was that he was acting too irresponsibly, and i did not want my daughter to experience arriving at her father's house just to see that nobody is home. it was a good choice, for his irresponsibility has not changed, but at least my daughter only remembers him as a nice guy who bought her lots of toys. she wishes he cared enough to not disappear again, and maybe even yell at her for being a bad girl, but at least she hasn't experienced betrayal. being betrayed by one's own parent is an extremely damaging thing to a child.

anyway. you are the only one who knows your situation completely. if your husband is selfish, get legal advice in case a divorce becomes necessary.
seeing a therapist sounds like a good choice. you might need one more than you know right now.

and do what any good parent would do. protect your child at any cost. losing a husband, if it comes to that, is better than the child growing up miserable.


also take a look around these forums. there are lots of guys here who have gone through transition, while still doing their utmost to take care of their children.
i don't think any of them would say it's normal for a father to happen to forget their child, even when obsessing over transition.
those who forget don't do it because they're a father, or trans. they're simply being selfish.

Hey Adwen,

I commend you on your emotional strength. You sound like an amazing mother and a great person. I feel for you in a way that most people cannot. A lot of your story rings very true to my own... but I play the role of the villain (husband). While it sounds like there are many differences between your husband and me, there are an uncanny number of similarities.

I have been fighting my feelings since I was 11 years old (now 33). My wife knew that I was cross dressing by our third date. Fast forward to 3 years ago (Married 6 years) and I felt like I could not fight the urge to transition anymore. My wife and I were in a bad place and I (at the time) believed I choked it down for our marriage. I now believe it was out of fear of the transition, not love of our marriage. I waved it off as a sexual fetish to my wife and myself and moved on. In November last year the feelings came back so strong it was like a tidal wave crashed over me. My newborn son was 8 months old. I told my wife "So I think I want to transition". Literally in that way. I rocked her world, again. I did it without thinking about her reaction or how any of it could affect my family. My wife told me she couldn't be with me if I transitioned.

I immediately decided to go to counselling and she was very supportive. It was never enough for me though. I would always harp at her for not supporting me in way X or way Y. I started laser therapy. I bought clothes and started dressing most of the time at home. I attended support groups and occasionally stayed out late at clubs. Money wasn't really an issue because we both have good paying jobs, even while she was on maternity leave. Through it all she supported me, all while being at home full time raising our new baby. It was never enough for me. It was about moving forward. It was about the ecstasy of the new experience.

Things started getting really rocky. We fought and the trust and respect for each other started to fade. When we were at or worst, we would talk lucidly about divorce. About separation of assets and liabilities. It was at this point I started realizing that without my wife I was free to move forward with my plan unhindered. I thought if we were not married, I could fully transition and that voice in the back of my head would finally be satisfied.

Then the most shocking thing happened. After having a conversation about what would happen after we divorced, I told her I would likely transition. We talked a bit about it and I mentioned I had no desire for bottom surgery. That night she came to see me crying at 4 am. She said she would stay with me if I transitioned as long as I didn't get bottom surgery. She had no idea that was what I was thinking when I said transition. I was ecstatic! It was like a dream come true.

We worked on our relationship. It was good for a few weeks, maybe a month. It started to come crashing down again. I had wanted to go to marital therapy together again and work on the marriage, but she didn't. I later found out that she thought I was talking about my transgender therapist for counselling. We crumbled more and finally we broke.

We obviously had issues in our marriage well beyond the trans stuff, it was just the spark that lit the powder keg. Ultimately I feel that my wife and I could not and should not stay together because I was too selfish and walked all over her. We also had very opposite personalities, we had little in common, we had poor communication, I was in denial (and probably still am) about my sexual desires and we both wanted very different lives. I will point out that while there were times when I would have my wife watch my son so I could go out and do my TG activities, but I never ignored him like your husband did. He is the most precious thing on this planet and the love of my life. It is the one fact that she will agree on, I am a good father.

Since I started hormones a few months ago, the urgency and the fog clouding my mind has cleared. I have had great conversations (with many tears) with family about who I am. I realize how selfish I am/was and struggle every day to put the needs of the important people in my life above my own, especially my son and my soon to be ex-wife. I have a long hard road ahead, but I want to be a better person no matter what physical form that may take.

---

I wish I had a quick fix or helpful advice for you Adwen, but sadly if he is anything like how I was, you do not have an easy time ahead. It is likely that no matter what you do, it will not be good enough for him. In his mind, the world revolves around him, like he is real and everyone else is just manifestations conjured up by his own mind. It is almost a form of king syndrome, where he is just destined to have good things happen to him all the time and that hardship is something for everyone else. It is likely that he does not even think about how you might be feeling, not as if your thoughts or feelings are irrelevant to him (I am sure he cares about you), but that he cannot even conceive that you would think something other that what he is. To his mind, what he says is so logical that it is ludicrous to think otherwise. That is how I often felt and if he is as similar to me as he seems, he likely has these same core characteristics, regardless pf whether he is fully aware of them or not.

I fear that your only hope is to find a way to break through to him on an emotional level about how you truly feel and what is going on in your own head. How you might feel betrayed by his disregard for you and your son. If he can see the pain and anguish this is causing you, maybe he will snap out of it long enough for you both to start counselling. Its a long shot, but have him read your post and mine. Maybe a lot of what I am saying will resonate with him? If he cannot find a way to control his selfish impulses and widen his tunnel vision, it will only end the same way as it did for me. This doesn't mean he has to stop what he is doing, simply slow down and do it all as a family. Have an honest talk with him, because it is possible he is already starting to think how I did about divorce and the freedom it will give him to pursue his goals unhindered.

I apologize from the bottom of my heart for the way he is treating you and what you are going through. I am sorry that good, strong, caring people like you and my wife have to endure the pain and emotional suffering caused by those of us who are too blind to see what is in front of them. Know that if I could go back and do it all over again, my desire to transition would not change, but I sure as hell would have done everything I could to change the way I acted and make sure my wife had all the support and respect she deserved.

If you ever want to ask me questions or simply talk more about what your husband might be thinking, please do not hesitate to PM me. Your story hit very close to home with me and I would love nothing more than to see you two succeed where I failed. Best of luck Adwen, know that you have the support of all the amazing people here on this forum and that you are not alone. Most of all, know that people can chance if they truly want to so there is always hope.

Interesting he referred to himself as a man in defense when your son was drinking his milk.... I'd never do that, I don't even think of myself like that anymore...
      There are so many details shrouded in shadows still it's impossible for anyone to see the overall picture here. I would need a spreadsheet of all expenses and income to render advice on spending other that it comes across odd to hear you compare electrolysis treatments to a spa day in light of the fact that you appear otherwise rather supportive of him despite this overwhelming tornado of a situation in your marriage. If he's an engineer I'd assume $500 per month for something this important wouldn't be too difficult to find. That kind of career usually allows for plenty of surplus finances provided you are frugal and live well within your means.
      I'm sure if he just gave him dinner he didn't forget his existence, and he would have transferred him to the sofa after several whimpers of disatisfaction on your sons behalf if you had let it play out. "Oh I forgot about him" wasn't a literal statement. Unless the child had been sitting there without interaction from your husband for 20 minutes or something, then I could see your point.
     The idea that your husband doesn't want to experiment with makeup is baffling, and more troubling that he's guided by someone that claims he needs HRT to desire that. The opposite is usually true, this quak surely needs to go...
     Sounds like you and your husband both are way too isolated in this situation and you both are hurting from the loss of support in your lives, maybe it would help to find a group to go to yourself even if he remains a stubborn ass and refuses the comfort of surrounding himself with other people.
     

Hi Adwen,

Chances are good your SO is gone.  I am sorry.  I think it's possible to flip your orientation but with your son in the picture your chances are so remotely slim I would be thinking longer term without your SO remaining as your spouse.  You are at the peek of embracing your femininity as a mother and a woman and your mom/dad roles will just keep annoying your SO more and more with each passing day.  That is the reality of being transgendered. We are female on the inside but have been socialized male making for a crazy very complex situation. 

Your SO is angry and he's going to lash out UNLESS you totally treat like a woman.  That is the secret to defusing her.  Come to terms with the pronouns as well.  This will really set your SO on her heels.  The idea is to slow her down a little and get her feeling what it's like to be related to as a woman.  It will freak her out and get her into therapy pronto I guarantee it.   Yes she is going to be selfish and spend money.  Just ride this out.  He can't spend to terribly much while starting transition.  Some clothes, some electrolysis, therapy really who cares.  Think long term big picture.  The divorce will have him paying dearly for many years.  The opportunity lies in how you treat her now.  You can either live for being friends and choose peace or you can choose bitterness.  Take it from me life is to short.  You have about 18 months to connect with your SO.  Doing so will spare you so much pain.  The other option is you can't force yourself to go this route.  This route is a living hell.  Trust me.  Treat her like a woman and get some really good therapy yourself.  Everyone will be fine in the long run and you'll find that man of your dreams sooner than you realize.

One last piece of advice.  Don't keep playing the victim card.  Your SO didn't sig up for her birth defect anymore than you did all of this.  It's a tragedy all the way around.  Good luck to you and your SO.