I have a male co-worker who speaks in a lot of ways about women that I really don't appreciate at all. These are things like complete objectification, sexual comments, and the like. I hope I don't have to go into too much detail for you to understand what I mean. Women are devalued into... playthings? I'm not sure of the right word, but it's less than the people they are.

He makes these comments to me about every woman who's even mildly attractive. Many of our female customers are, so it's almost incessant.

The thing is, before I fully accepted who and what I am, these types of things still bothered me. But, in projecting my male-ish persona, I was content enough with vague, dismissive replies, just enough to "fit in". But that doesn't work anymore. I'm not sure exactly why he says this stuff, but whatever type of male bonding thing he's trying to achieve, it's seriously upsetting me. I know why now, of course. He's not actually talking to another man, though he has no way of knowing that. And my instinctive response (which I have so far restrained) will cut, which is not at all what I want.

In trying to be genuine though, I have no idea what the genuine response to this kind of crap even is. If he actually saw me as a woman, he wouldn't dare talk like that when I'm around. But explaining exactly why it bugs me (i.e. coming out to him) isn't an option. And I don't exactly want to make this guy an enemy, since otherwise he's actually pretty okay. So how to broach the subject tactfully?

I feel like, with the unique perspective being trans gives us, I have an opportunity to change his perspective somehow, maybe. I just don't know how. At the very least, I don't want to hear this garbage anymore.

What would you say, if you had the opportunity to talk to a guy like that? How would you even approach this situation, if you still wanted this guy to be amenable, and respect you afterward?

Tell his boss. It's sexual harassment because it makes you uncomfortable, the comments don't even have to be aimed at you.

I feel for you. I really do. There isn't much that gets under my skin more than that kind of pig-headed view of women. I wish I could offer a more constructive solution, but I would have already made my opinion of his behaviour clear if I had to put up with it on any sort of regular basis. I don't think I would have enough self-control to try to be gentle about it.

If he really is a pretty ok guy as you describe (aside the fact the he is a pig),  maybe you can talk to him before anything.  Just try tem him that this kind of talk doesn't really make u feel ok.  He probably doesn't even need to know why,  just tell him you don't like this kinda talk and you prefer talk about other things. 
Don't try to change him.  That's impossible.  Even if you tell your boss,  he won't change.  Talk to him is the very first step,  and talk to your boss is the last resource. 
Good luck

He isn't going to change, trust me on this!

Several years ago I was having coffee at Starbucks with three guy friends when in walked a rather beautiful young women who was rather stunningly endowed. She was with her boyfriend and she was also someone I worked with at the time. The three morons I was sitting with were staring at her with their jaws hanging and eyes practically popping out of their heads and then the comments followed. I was so pissed off and embarrassed that I got up and left before the young woman recognized me.

I used to enjoy going hunting with the fellows during Elk season, not that I cared to shoot one, but I always enjoyed the brisk morning air in the mountains at that time of year and the camaraderie and bonding around the camp fire at night along with a few drinks. Unfortunately it always turned into one of those uncomfortable times when the Neanderthals felt compelled to talk about women in a derogatory manner. I haven't been hunting in years because of that, my experience tells me that it's their hardwiring and that they are incapable of change.

I wonder if they really mean at least 50% of what they are blurting out...

Quote from: Jera on September 04, 2014, 03:31:02 AM
I have a male co-worker who speaks in a lot of ways about women that I really don't appreciate at all. These are things like complete objectification, sexual comments, and the like. I hope I don't have to go into too much detail for you to understand what I mean. Women are devalued into... playthings? I'm not sure of the right word, but it's less than the people they are.

This is only allowed in any kind of roleplay or to care for a fetish the girl has (means: the girl has to be okay with it) and only if nobody unwilling is about to hear it. Anything else should be hit with the full force of the law.

Is there any contact person at work to whom you can speak and stay anonymous?

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on September 04, 2014, 11:44:45 AM
I wonder if they really mean at least 50% of what they are blurting out...

It's just all childishly male bravado, showing off for the buddies, but it's creepy and makes the woman feel so objectified, self conscious and disgusted with men. It almost never happens as a one-on-one confrontation where comments are most usually offered in more complementary terms though they are still often unwanted.

Unfortunately I'm surrounded by co-workers like this. I get on with them all but when they're all together and they start talking like this, it is uncomfortable for to be around them. So if possible, I distance myself from them or try to block it out and ignore them. I don't think talking to them would help since they don't avoid these conversations when other female staff members are around.

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on September 04, 2014, 11:44:45 AM
I wonder if they really mean at least 50% of what they are blurting out...

Nope. I would say probably only less than 1% if that much. It is just the way guys try to make them seem like "Ladykillers" when most of them are so insecure about their masculinity. Yeah that kind of talk is extremely cheap, but usually the more insecure a man is with their masculinity, the more they try to be Dawgs or perceived "Lady's men". I actually feel more sorry for them than anything else. It is just a pathetic attempt to secure their own manhood in their Psyches. I would just let him talk the way he wants and believe that he is making up for something else he is lacking. Does that make sense? But on the other hand I'm not easily offended so it really doesn't bother me when guys talk like that. But I still do this though: .

I remember the feeling!  Being trans, not out, and socializing with guys is kind of a weird form of male pressure.  Whenever I'd run into a situation like that, where one/some of the guys would make a sexist, weird, creepy comment, and felt it would be flag-raising to contend it, I'd just follow it with something super absurd.  Connecting sexism with absurdism just seems like a natural fit.

Thinking aloud with his dick. He needs to put it on mute. Are you still presenting as male? Maybe just say, "give it a rest, dude, it's getting boring". Depending on how reasonable he is you can maybe point out that women are people, they're not there for his visual sexual gratification.

Quote from: Ms Grace on September 04, 2014, 04:06:07 PM
Thinking aloud with his dick. He needs to put it on mute. Are you still presenting as male? Maybe just say, "give it a rest, dude, it's getting boring". Depending on how reasonable he is you can maybe point out that women are people, they're not there for his visual sexual gratification.

LOL. He may be thinking with it, but his is probably smaller than mine. Big talk makes up for small equipment. I would still just let him make a fool of himself. And then see who is date is at the next Christmas party. Take a picture and I can tell you if it's a pay date or not.

Seriously though, the ones that talk like that may even be even closet trans or gay even. It would not surprise me the least little bit.

Quote from: Dee on September 04, 2014, 04:01:28 PM
I remember the feeling!  Being trans, not out, and socializing with guys is kind of a weird form of male pressure.  Whenever I'd run into a situation like that, where one/some of the guys would make a sexist, weird, creepy comment, and felt it would be flag-raising to contend it, I'd just follow it with something super absurd.  Connecting sexism with absurdism just seems like a natural fit.

I love this. Thanks so much.

I have the same issue, but luckily he's almost 6 years younger than me and a complete idiot. I've told him off several times now but since I'm quitting, I won't have to do that anymore.

Basically, he's just stupid and if you tell them once and they keep doing it, you've done all you need to, and anything past that is really up to you whether you think it's worth it.

Years ago I got a guy fired for repeatedly making comments to me about a female coworker, really lewd and explicit stuff. I really don't like that kind of thing. But out in the field when I went out on a job site they would often have that kind of talk. I avoided it as I found it completely disgusting.

Quote from: ImagineKate on September 04, 2014, 07:17:30 PM
Years ago I got a guy fired for repeatedly making comments to me about a female coworker, really lewd and explicit stuff. I really don't like that kind of thing. But out in the field when I went out on a job site they would often have that kind of talk. I avoided it as I found it completely disgusting.

I could easily get this guy fired, if I wanted to. I seem to have a lot of influence in this place. But I don't want to talk to the boss. Really, if I can find the solution that just shuts him up about this, even if nothing else, that's ideal. If I can show him somehow why it's BS, that's even more ideal. But yeah, what a lot of people are saying here might be true. There's just no fixing some people.

Quote from: Ms Grace on September 04, 2014, 04:06:07 PM
Thinking aloud with his dick. He needs to put it on mute. Are you still presenting as male? Maybe just say, "give it a rest, dude, it's getting boring". Depending on how reasonable he is you can maybe point out that women are people, they're not there for his visual sexual gratification.

I am still presenting as male, yes, and this is definitely an option. I'm just sort of hoping that there's something else I can say. Does that make sense? Maybe it's unrealistic to hope that I can actually change it, but either way, I need to shut him the :censored: up.