Why is inadvertently telling someone the truth about our gender and dysphoria so scary that we recoil?  It is, and I was just as careful before I went officially public.  But in my case at least, taking off the guy suit for good, was anticlimactic.  Just kind of "You're a girl?  Huh.  Where are we going for lunch and will you still buy?"

I told myself that the consequences would be dire, and don't get me wrong, there are lots of times where that could be true.  But for me the fear was rooted in lack of control and of the unknown.  Colleagues everywhere on the corporate food chain have been wonderful. 

I had lost most of my pre-transition friends to depression, and isolation, but as a more socially aware and socially alive woman, have made lasting relationships and continue to meet remarkable people.

The fact is, I love being myself and that energy is attractive.  (Although I just got my passport picture today, and am never showing it to anyone except at customs.)

Any thoughts, I'm really curious?

Julie

While I can only speak for myself, my best guess is a great deal of social conditioning.

My background is a rather violent one, though. Every time I try to say anything out loud, there's a five-year-old in me that doesn't want to get hurt anymore. My family tried to "fix" me, and they did fix me at least talking about it. To this day, I still barely can, even to the 20+ therapists I've been to over the years.

While I dearly hope I'm an extreme case in that regard, even seeing that kind of treatment of other people like us can go a long way to creating that fear. Absolutely nobody wants that treatment for themselves, and we've all seen or heard of at least a few instances where people were treated very, very badly just for being trans. Many didn't survive.

So, even if it's a false dilemma, that's the best answer I can give to this question. If we're already living in relative peace and safety, that fear of the unknown can be powerful. Because the unknown could be very, very bad.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

You know, you are right.  I need to hook you up with a friend of mine who was pretty violently abused as a child.  It took years but they are open, and insightful.  Let me know if you would like contact information.  Might be someone to whom you can relate.

But is the culture of violence toward trans people still pervasive?  A lot of why I lived almost all of my life in painful isolation was because I was afraid of both emotional and physical violence.  I learned early that being girly just didn't cut it, and stuffed that part of me down to the darkest place I could find.  But even once I acknowledged to myself the truth about who I was, was in therapy, and even taking HRT, I was cautious, fearful and shy. 

That is the fear I am questioning.  Why to people I cared for, and who cared for me was I circumspect and even disingenuous.

I'm puzzled, I really am.  But this is a post ergo propter hoc fallacy.  I know more now, I've experienced revealing.  Hmmm maybe I'm answering my own question.  Whatcha think?

Julie

My biggest fear apart from losing my wife and kids is being labeled as a "freak." But it's not that simple. I don't care so much about what my mom and dad think though...

Yeah, I was there too.  Turns out I am neither a fraud nor a freak and am never treated as such.  I knew that I would lose my marriage,  and I've talked about that ad nauseum.  But that was more acceptance of the consequences of refusing to die and refusing to live in the wrong skin.  I think that it is a deeper insecurity, maybe that I wasn't worthy of living authentically.   That living as a girl was just an impossible dream for better, prettier people.  Some of the transition videos on YouTube certainly reinforced  that.  I mean those men and women became so beautiful that it gives me goose bumps.

j

Quote from: JulieBlair on September 04, 2014, 06:26:11 PM
You know, you are right.  I need to hook you up with a friend of mine who was pretty violently abused as a child.  It took years but they are open, and insightful.  Let me know if you would like contact information.  Might be someone to whom you can relate.

But is the culture of violence toward trans people still pervasive?  A lot of why I lived almost all of my life in painful isolation was because I was afraid of both emotional and physical violence.  I learned early that being girly just didn't cut it, and stuffed that part of me down to the darkest place I could find.  But even once I acknowledged to myself the truth about who I was, was in therapy, and even taking HRT, I was cautious, fearful and shy. 

That is the fear I am questioning.  Why to people I cared for, and who cared for me was I circumspect and even disingenuous.

I'm puzzled, I really am.  But this is a post ergo propter hoc fallacy.  I know more now, I've experienced revealing.  Hmmm maybe I'm answering my own question.  Whatcha think?

Julie

I definitely feel like that culture still exists. From what I understand, things like that are absolutely less accepted than they were in days past. Maybe the attackers wouldn't get lauded publicly for their behavior, but even so, being legally right doesn't make you any less legally dead, if you encounter the worst kinds of people. It's still very, very scary, even if there are more safe havens around these days.

That's why I think Susan's is such an amazing place. It's beyond wonderful how people like me, at the beginning of the transition road, can connect with people like you, who have already gone through it. That way, you can show us there is another door along the path, one that leads to happiness and a truly genuine life.

You've been through what we're facing, so thank you, all of you, for sharing it.

My(now ex) girlfriend/best friend helped me figure myself out, so I knew coming out to everyone else that I'd still have her.. That was all that mattered really.  My family is really supportive, and not at all hateful of different types of people.  My friends were all queers anyway.  Had been for years.  I still hesitated to come out.  [just showing its irrationally hard on both sides of the spectrum there]

Some of that is still that inherent fear regardless of favorable social conditions.  A lot of it, for me, is really just that coming out draws a lot of attention to one's self. Even if only for a moment.  All eyes are on you like some weird spotlight has just been directed straight onto you.

I'm finding it harder to tell people I'm trans now than when I was transitioning. During transition it was a necessity.  People tend to want a verbal explanation when you start switching genders on them.  After transition I never planned to be stealth... It just sort of happened.  Now I'm stuck in a weird situation.  I do still come out to some people very casually.  It always gets, like you said, a quick "oh okay" and then the topic moves on like nothing happened, but somehow still leaves one emotionally winded for a second. 

Quote from: Jera on September 04, 2014, 08:22:33 PM
I definitely feel like that culture still exists. From what I understand, things like that are absolutely less accepted than they were in days past. Maybe the attackers wouldn't get lauded publicly for their behavior, but even so, being legally right doesn't make you any less legally dead, if you encounter the worst kinds of people. It's still very, very scary, even if there are more safe havens around these days.

That's why I think Susan's is such an amazing place. It's beyond wonderful how people like me, at the beginning of the transition road, can connect with people like you, who have already gone through it. That way, you can show us there is another door along the path, one that leads to happiness and a truly genuine life.

You've been through what we're facing, so thank you, all of you, for sharing it.

Jera,
Just so you know.  My opinion is that you are both courageous, and enormously empathetic.

Peace
Julie

I really don't know what to say Julie. I am not out of the closet but the door is open and the light is on so anyone with any sense can see inside. I don't hide it and I don't proclaim it but people are basically ignorant. Cis people that is. They see what they think they want to see. I have been called Ma'am and I have been called sir and I have heard apologies because of both.

I don't feel the real need to tell anyone anything. I, me and myself have to live my life and if others make assumptions or see what that want to see. That is on them. I kind of feel back to my normal adversarial self again. But I really feel the need to tell no one anything unless they are a potential romantic interest.

Jess,
Rock on girlfriend, I think that perhaps you are the healthy one here. 
j

JB

For me it is most likely  fear of rejection and of ridicule.  It took me long enough to accept and to understand myself.  Inadvertent disclosure suggests lack of planning and thought,  I have been very careful with when, how and who I  have come out to.  I am paranoid that premature, inappropriate or clumsy disclosure will damage a key relationship.

Yes, I am a control freak!

Safe travels

Aisla

Aisla,
   Maybe, but you are a beautiful, articulate, and compassionate one (control freak).   I think that for gender queer folks it is a little more complicated.  You seem to parse your lives far more carefully.  I am a girl, sometimes I dress like, and perhaps act like a guy, but that is OK societally.   It is much easier to be a butch chick than a cross dressing guy.  Which may explain a lot about me   Still isn't it hard to maintain the internal plurality of androgyny without the anxiety that circumspection requires?  I guess I'm asking if being stealth androgynous isn't to some degree fear based?

I tried and couldn't pull it off.  To fit in both socially and internally, I had to choose how I wanted my primary representation to be, and then deal with any fall out. For me it was easy, I love expressing myself in a feminine context, and the accouterments of being a guy were repulsive to me (God grant me relief from body hair!)  Still, I think I am more in the camp of Suzi.  I live and express myself as a woman, but the internal chemistry is more complicated than that.

Bottom line - I'm way too flaky to remember who knows my truth and who thinks something else.  For me transition into authenticity and self acceptance required letting go of control and embracing openness.

Peace,
Julie

Quote from: JulieBlair on September 04, 2014, 05:42:03 PM
But for me the fear was rooted in lack of control and of the unknown.

This sums it up pretty well, I think. No matter what the subject is, when we tell someone else something, we relinquish control over that information and what happens to it. The element of unpredictability, being at someone else's mercy, and things you can do nothing about play on the mind as it's then in the realm of whoever we told, and how they deal with it. And from that can spring a whole raft of fears and insecurities based partly on what we know about the other person, but also on how we feel about ourselves. Sometimes we think for the other person, based on the self-talk we have going on about ourselves. And if that's negative, we put the thoughts in other people's heads that they're going to think the worst, because we don't feel all that awesome about ourselves so how on Earth could they? Even though we don't know, we assume.

Assumption can be a bigger fearmonger than a whole legion of hellish demons.

Julie you are such a great changeling!  And then there is our old friend fear.  Yes, that awful fear of being rejected and ridiculed, of losing control of our own life narratives.  Being isolated from family and community is terribly and demonstrably hurtful, even fatal. 

We are facing those fears now and calling their bluff.  Fear turns out to be quite a seductive liar and great for keeping individuals or even the masses in place.  Being genuine and living free is worth the risk to challenge the dominate paradigms. 

I finally had a bathroom challenge the other day after being out for almost 2 years.  I was happy to stand tall and continue putting on my lipstick and asked her if she needed to check my ID.  She skulked back into her stall.

Sephirah,
"Sometimes we think for the other person, based on the self-talk we have going on about ourselves. And if that's negative, we put the thoughts in other people's heads that they're going to think the worst, because we don't feel all that awesome about ourselves so how on Earth could they? Even though we don't know, we assume."

I think that is spot on!  I still question whether my thoughts and feelings have merit.  Occasionally even to the point where I hesitate to express myself here because I'm sure you will decide I'm a fake and a fraud.  It takes courage to be authentic and vulnerable.  Every dialogue I have, in person or in print contains an element of that insecurity, but transcending fear has been euphoric for me.  I am released from the bonds of hesitation and allowed to sometimes even be wrong.  I think that being okay with making mistakes might be a key.

Tessa,
She must have been a tourist, I think everyone in town knows and loves you.  I have never seen you afraid, and have a hard time even imagining what that would look like.  You are among the most genuine women that I know, but may I see your ID please?

j

Quote from: JulieBlair on September 05, 2014, 10:49:21 AM
Aisla,
   Maybe, but you are a beautiful, articulate, and compassionate one (control freak).   I think that for gender queer folks it is a little more complicated.  You seem to parse your lives far more carefully.  I am a girl, sometimes I dress like, and perhaps act like a guy, but that is OK societally.   It is much easier to be a butch chick than a cross dressing guy.  Which may explain a lot about me   Still isn't it hard to maintain the internal plurality of androgyny without the anxiety that circumspection requires?  I guess I'm asking if being stealth androgynous isn't to some degree fear based?

Bottom line - I'm way too flaky to remember who knows my truth and who thinks something else.  For me transition into authenticity and self acceptance required letting go of control and embracing openness.

Peace,
Julie

JB

Blushing

As I often do, I agree with your observation.  My non binary experience appears to be very different to the binary experience.  For me, any element of my presentation which is non binary helps express my NB identity and feels authentic and comfortable.  Each NB has their own view of their identity and therefore this may range from a mere suggestion of NB elements, a pursuit of a gender neutral or androgynous expression, through the deliberate jarring and juxtaposition of opposite binary elements, to an ongoing fluidity or gender dance.

To borrow another member's observation, it may be that non binaries say, I AM non binary whereas binaries say I am F or I am M.  Hence our emphasis is on finding ourselves, understanding and consciously expressing ourselves without reference to society's binary options.  Passing is therefore not so much subject to the views of others as subject to whether we meet our own objective.

In this way I seek emotional comfort and freedom from dysphoria, and only take on as much nuance or queerness as I think is appropriate to the situation and my level of comfort.  It is a journey of ongoing discovery and for a non binary this is such a relief and blessing after years of hiding and acting.

Safe travels

Aisla

Quite simply.

You do not know how the other person will respond to your news.
The unknown is always scary to everyone. It can be anything about TG or non TG topics.

Oh Julie you are priceless.  Thanks for making me laugh and cry tonight as I caught up on some threads with you.

Quote from: janetcgtv on September 05, 2014, 09:32:45 PM
Quite simply.

You do not know how the other person will respond to your news.
The unknown is always scary to everyone. It can be anything about TG or non TG topics.

And in some cases it has the potential to disrupt or destroy your life.

Kate,
Transition is the scariest and most disruptive thing I have ever done.  To become entirely new is terrifying.  To do so and live in pretense almost put me in an institution.   Is that more or less risky?  For me the question is moot.  I am Julie, now and always.

Julie