EDIT: The next session went very well. I took notes from this thread and brought them in. There's a more detailed update on page 2. Thanks for your help, everyone!

My therapist likes to give his clients "homework". Usually I find this insightful, but this time, I'm not really sure what he meant. I could use some help figuring it out.

The last thing I said toward the end of our session was that I would like to get top surgery done in the future (FTM). I like boobs, but mine are small, and I always wished that I could either have bigger ones, or none at all so that I could try passing as male (this was before I even realized I was trans). Now that I know who I am, I'd like to get this done. I had already told him that I identified as androgyne or neutral, and was trying to express that I wanted a body that reflected this, and not necessarily go fully male (yet).

He told me that society only has two buckets, "male" and "female," and that I would confuse others and attract attention to myself. They wouldn't see an androgyne, they'd be confused and trying to pick which bucket to put me in. I agree with him. I know how society is.

I said that if I could present myself exactly the way I want to the world, flat-chested and androgynous, then I would attract people who were like me whom I would get along with, repel people who rejected me and not have to bother with them, and have fun confusing everyone else. Except for the third part, this is something I think we all do whether we realize it or not. How you present yourself to the world sends a signal to others, and they might see you and recognize you as one of their kind, or reject you, or not have much of an opinion either way. I'm concerned with portraying my most authentic self to the world. I didn't say that part to my therapist.

He responded by saying that it sounded like I was testing people. That I was trying to hold a sign over my head to know right away whether or not they accepted or rejected me.

My homework is to be aware of how I set myself up for disappointment in my interactions with others. To be aware of how I just want to be understood by everyone upon first impression, but I am so "unique" (unusual) that most of society doesn't have a mental bucket to place me into, so then they're confused, and then I feel misunderstood. Those are his words. I don't care what bucket people put me in as long as they see who I really am. I don't expect everyone in the world to understand me. I just want to be seen for who I really am. "Testing" people isn't my goal, just a desirable side effect.

I left his office after repeating my homework assignment to him, thinking I understood, but now I'm confused. What are your thoughts?

It's worth noting that he doesn't think I'm transgender, but is also gay and no stranger to LGBT issues and stigma.

I could go into a long post about identity, and how our need to express ourselves oftentimes exists outside the boundaries of society, but I won't.  Instead, I'll say this: If your therapist doesn't believe you when you tell him you are transgender, then it's time to find yourself a new therapist.

Your therapist sounds like a bigoted idiot. My experience has been that gay people seem to least understand what being trans is about. Some have even said to me (more than one) "You are just a gay man in denial, so instead, you play at being a woman to avoid being gay". That said, I'd find another therapist.

I know "just get another therapist" seems like the easy, logical answer, but he's been very helpful to me up until this past session. I also really like him as a person--we have several (surprising!) common interests. I'll probably have to see somebody else if/when it comes time for medical referrals, but until then I'd like to stick with him for awhile longer. He's helped me to go deeper into myself and work out some emotional baggage.

I was just thinking, maybe I missed something since we didn't seem to understand each other in the end of that session. Oh, irony.

maybe he's testing you?
Unlikely I know, but maybe he wants to see if your steadfast in the face of adversity?

That being said, I doubt that's the case
So give him another chance, and then find a new therapist

If you ask me, you're not setting yourself up for disappointment, you're avoiding disappointment. You're presenting yourself in a way that is as true to who you as you can be are no matter what anyone else says, knowing that some people won't even try to get to approach you based on prejudgement.

Do you honestly feel like you're misunderstood? Does that bother you? If that causes you significant emotional distress, maybe he has a point. But if you're just unapologetically being you, there's nothing wrong with that.

Even a good therapist can say ignorant things. Maybe the next time you see him talk to him about your thoughts on his homework more thoroughly, ask him to explain his side and explain your side as well? Talking about identity is important (as I'm sure you know) and a full conversation on this homework might be beneficial for both you and his understanding of where to go forward in future sessions with you.

You could e-mail him for a clarification.

If he does not believe what you say they how can you trust his judgment? If my therapist told me I am not trans* I would look for a new one ASAP. We have some very unique needs and one is being accepted for who we are. It is not a want or desire it is a fundamental need.

Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on September 05, 2014, 07:54:56 PM
I don't care what bucket people put me in as long as they see who I really am. I don't expect everyone in the world to understand me. I just want to be seen for who I really am. "Testing" people isn't my goal, just a desirable side effect.

I left his office after repeating my homework assignment to him, thinking I understood, but now I'm confused. What are your thoughts?

it sounds like you've already done part of your homework. you want people to see you for who you are. So what does that mean to you? does it set you up for disappointment? why is testing people a desirable effect?

Quote
It's worth noting that he doesn't think I'm transgender, but is also gay and no stranger to LGBT issues and stigma.

why doesn't your T think you are transgender?

Quote from: Ianianian on September 05, 2014, 08:35:39 PM
If you ask me, you're not setting yourself up for disappointment, you're avoiding disappointment. You're presenting yourself in a way that is as true to who you as you can be are no matter what anyone else says, knowing that some people won't even try to get to approach you based on prejudgement.

Do you honestly feel like you're misunderstood? Does that bother you? If that causes you significant emotional distress, maybe he has a point. But if you're just unapologetically being you, there's nothing wrong with that.

Yes, feeling misunderstood for most of my life (not necessarily due to gender) was a major theme in the conversation.

I'm not really seeing how that makes it wrong for me to want to be perceived as my authentic self, though. Being transgender means not identifying with the gender you were assigned at birth, and as far as I know, it also means taking steps to avoid being perceived as the gender you are not. So how does my taking that step mean I'm testing people?

I do want to understand because if I'm doing something wrong in life, I want to know so that I can change it.

I will try emailing him and see if he can clarify. I hadn't really considered that.

Quote from: christopher on September 05, 2014, 08:40:13 PM
it sounds like you've already done part of your homework. you want people to see you for who you are. So what does that mean to you? does it set you up for disappointment? why is testing people a desirable effect?

why doesn't your T think you are transgender?

I don't really think I'm testing people. I was using his term, so that's why I put it in quotes when I said it was desirable. I think that everyone "tests" people in this way when they choose how to present themselves to society. Some people don't realize that when they appear a certain way (not only in clothing, but in mannerisms and attitude), they'll attract a certain type of person, and repel certain type of people. It's important for me to express myself in my appearance so that I feel like I'm being honest with the world, but I haven't been doing it because I've been either too lazy to put in the effort or too afraid of standing out. That's how I've always viewed things; I'm no different now that I know I'm trans.

I'm really setting myself up for disappointment by conforming to the buckets, hiding my true self, and then wondering why nobody sees that person when they meet me.

He thinks I'm not transgender because I haven't had severe gender dysphoria my whole life. I didn't hate my female body growing up, didn't spend my life wishing I were a boy. I've always known I wasn't quite female, but never had the classic "I was born in the wrong body" thoughts.

that's a good answer in my opinion. And the thing with therapy and therapy homework is you give the answer that's right for you and helps you learn, not for your therapist. So, I say you are done with your homework.

it does sound like your t needs to get more educated on transgender issues.

Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on September 05, 2014, 07:54:56 PMHe told me that society only has two buckets, ....

Yeah, I got this sort of social norm enforcement from a therapist a while back.  It's part of why I dumped him.

"Society" isn't a person.  It consists of an enormous variety of people some of whom this is true for and some for whom it is not (and some who are somewhere in between or off to the side.)

It's certainly true that you are going to have a harder time with the first group if you don't neatly fit into one of the socially sanctioned boxes.  The question is whether keeping them happy is worth the misery of having to pretend to be someone you aren't.

Note that you are allowed to have different answers to that question for different situations -- for instance, if a binary bigot stands between you and something you really want, you may choose to play the good little cis girl to the bigot until you get what you want.  (It's not a lie exactly, more a kindness to not confront the poor bigot with something they might find disturbing   .)

Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on September 05, 2014, 07:54:56 PM
He responded by saying that it sounded like I was testing people. That I was trying to hold a sign over my head to know right away whether or not they accepted or rejected me.

My homework is to be aware of how I set myself up for disappointment in my interactions with others.

Yeah, and black people (African-Americans) set themselves up for disappointment when they go around looking black.\end{sarcasm}

I wouldn't call it "testing" exactly.  I would call it not contorting yourself to please people you probably don't want to get chummy with, anyway.

Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on September 05, 2014, 07:54:56 PM
It's worth noting that he doesn't think I'm transgender, but is also gay and no stranger to LGBT issues and stigma.

Being gay doesn't mean you are any better at understanding transgender stuff than your average cis straight person.   "You're not trans, you're just a gay in denial" is unfortunately a trope in the gay community.

Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on September 05, 2014, 08:55:21 PM
Yes, feeling misunderstood for most of my life (not necessarily due to gender) was a major theme in the conversation.

I'm not really seeing how that makes it wrong for me to want to be perceived as my authentic self, though. Being transgender means not identifying with the gender you were assigned at birth, and as far as I know, it also means taking steps to avoid being perceived as the gender you are not. So how does my taking that step mean I'm testing people?

I do want to understand because if I'm doing something wrong in life, I want to know so that I can change it.

I will try emailing him and see if he can clarify. I hadn't really considered that.

Well then maybe he's trying to insinuate that because being misunderstood is something that already bothers you, your deviance from the gender norms is "setting yourself up for disappointment" because it means that more people won't understand you even on first glance/first meeting because they won't understand which "bucket" to put you in. And he's afraid that will cause more problems for you?

I'm not saying that's right (either my interpretation or the point he would be making) I'm just saying maybe that's his concern.

QuoteHe thinks I'm not transgender because I haven't had severe gender dysphoria my whole life. I didn't hate my female body growing up, didn't spend my life wishing I were a boy. I've always known I wasn't quite female, but never had the classic "I was born in the wrong body" thoughts.

Transgender people don't have just one common narrative.  Some of the people here have felt dysphoric from the day they were born.  Some of us (like myself) probably had some dysphoria to begin with, but it was never on our radar until recently.  And some have never felt dysphoria at all, and are transgender because the way they choose to express themselves doesn't conform, or the way they choose to identify doesn't fall into one of these neat little buckets.  I think your therapist means well, but he doesn't understand how many threads our community has within it-we are transsexuals, crossdressers, genderqueers, drag queens, drag kings, bois, two-spirits, transexuals, trans men, trans women, gender-benders, gender-f***ers, agenders, pangenders, genderfluids, androgyns, non-binaries, gender non-conformers, gender outlaws and queers. 

All of us are transgender-and we all have different stories.  Just because yours happens to be different doesn't make it any less valid.

Quote from: Asche on September 05, 2014, 09:28:37 PM
Yeah, I got this sort of social norm enforcement from a therapist a while back.  It's part of why I dumped him.

"Society" isn't a person.  It consists of an enormous variety of people some of whom this is true for and some for whom it is not (and some who are somewhere in between or off to the side.)

It's certainly true that you are going to have a harder time with the first group if you don't neatly fit into one of the socially sanctioned boxes.  The question is whether keeping them happy is worth the misery of having to pretend to be someone you aren't.

I had these same thoughts and we also touched on this a little in our session--I was thinking of moving to a place like Portland or San Francisco where there'd be more people like me, or who would appreciate someone as "unique" as me.

I agree, I don't see the point in fitting myself in other people's boxes! That's why his question was so confusing to me. That seemed to be the implied solution.

To everyone: thanks, this is really helping! I want to live consciously, not passively. That's going to be my answer for him next week.

Quote from: Ianianian on September 05, 2014, 09:43:36 PM
Well then maybe he's trying to insinuate that because being misunderstood is something that already bothers you, your deviance from the gender norms is "setting yourself up for disappointment" because it means that more people won't understand you even on first glance/first meeting because they won't understand which "bucket" to put you in. And he's afraid that will cause more problems for you?

I'm not saying that's right (either my interpretation or the point he would be making) I'm just saying maybe that's his concern.

I think you're right, that sounds like something he'd say. Thanks for your perspective.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on September 05, 2014, 09:50:18 PM
Transgender people don't have just one common narrative.

Riffing on this comment (if you don't like tangents, please skip this) --

To paraphrase this, I'd say that there are as many ways to be trans as there are trans people.  You have only to read what people here tell about their lives.

I would add: and there are as many ways to handle being trans as there are trans people.  The ISO (well, WPATH) Standard transition path to looking, living, and feeling like the opposite sex is right for some.  Others may discover that they need to go to a different destination.  Or the same goal, but follow a different path.  Some wander around and discover a place far from the beaten path that turns out to be just right for them.

It's not the job of the therapist to tell you who or what you are, or what you should do about it.  The therapist's job is to help you to find out what's right for you.

It's not my place to give advice, but I'll tell you what I did:  I had a therapist for 20+ years (a good one, too), but when it seemed most of our sessions were about her insisting I should see myself the way she saw me and I should become what she thought I ought to become, I left.

Quote from: Gothic Dandy Luca on September 05, 2014, 08:55:21 PM
Being transgender means not identifying with the gender you were assigned at birth, and as far as I know, it also means taking steps to avoid being perceived as the gender you are not.

A common misconception is that all transgendered people have a need to jump from one gender check box to the other. Some trans people do this, embrace stereotypes that reenforce the new gender and all that stuff. Some of us want to be seen as "not my birth gender" but don't have an overwhelming desire to hide they are trans. It's OK to not be in either check box if that is where you are -right now-. I can tell you over the past decade, my gender identity slider has moved some from where I was 10 years ago and at the time I would have sworn "This is my spot on the gender scale". It's OK to not pick a point today where you plan to spend the rest of your life.

I do understand wanting to be different and rock the boat so to speak. I've been doing that as part of my transition and have no interest in hiding my being trans. Just enjoy the ride and get some clarity from this therapist. I'm not sure they are steering you in a good direction for who you seem to be.

Trying to entertain the therapist's idea, here's how I'd look at it:

How you will present is going to "test" many people, but just because you would have that effect on some people doesn't mean that it is your intention.  People are often "tested" when they meet people of different religions and cultures, and whether they "pass" comes down to whether they successfully expand their world view to respond functionally in their interactions.  The alternative is to expect people of other religions and cultures to pretend they aren't who they are, which is tremendously small-minded.

You are probably going to "rise to the top" of examples who will challenge someone's world view, but if not for you, almost all of those same people are going to get tested by someone else anyway, and I would like to think that most other people are better for seeing your example, even if many of them may act poorly at the time.  Of course it'll put a lot of stress on you, but there's also stress in pretending to be someone you are not.

As for disappointment, that really depends on your outlook.  If you're trying to have "real" friends, even if they are fewer in number, then presenting authentically is a fantastic option.  If you want to (or have to) keep things "under control," then faking it has its benefits.  By your own words, though, the first option is looking a lot more appealing.

being true to yourself and the world, isn't the same as testing people.
children born with ambiguous genitalia aren't testing people either.
a bearded woman or a man with gynecomastia aren't testing people.

we simply exist.
and society have made two big buckets, for the sake of population control.
and for breeding purposes.
the only reason anyone would need to know whether someone has male or female genitals, is in order to know whether they can hope to successfully produce offspring with them.

society is a whole lot more accepting than what your therapist seems to think.
as soon as you're being evaluated as a person, your true gender will stop mattering.
most people will conclude that it's better to not know for sure, if they meet something that confuses them.
i was once asked whether i was a man or a woman, on some forum with a rather diverse population.
the one who asked soon started making up a whole lot of different possible answers, when i only answered "no" to his question.
all of them seemed so scary in the end, that he decided it's better to not know for sure, and just take me for who i say i am, and usually appear as.

i wasn't testing him though. he just didn't want to believe me for a moment.
i don't really know how i can possibly test people by being me.
testing is more like asking "what if", just to try to find out if they would accept me if i were to come out to them.
i only ever tested one guy, desperate to find acceptance, and he passed. the thing tested was his friendship.

but what are you testing if you go out in an ambiguous presentation?
nothing. you simply are yourself.
you are only testing people when you come out to the, hoping to find acceptance.
being true from the beginning isn't a test. you can't test people by telling the answer.
though they can still fail at being good people. but that's not a test you invented.