Honestly I don't even know if this matters... I'm just trying to figure stuff out, but I'm increasingly feeling that woman is not an identity I really relate to. I'm female bodied and happy to be that way but being a woman isn't me - I guess I'm just confused. Heck I don't even know if this is really an issue for me, my wife and another friend came out as non binary earlier this year and I don't know if this is just the part of me that craves attention and is self obsessed doing this, or if there really is something there.

My friend suggested grrrl as an identifier as it suggest female identified but without the baggage that woman seems to carry with it.

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 07, 2014, 09:20:37 AM
Honestly I don't even know if this matters... I'm just trying to figure stuff out, but I'm increasingly feeling that woman is not an identity I really relate to. I'm female bodied and happy to be that way but being a woman isn't me - I guess I'm just confused. Heck I don't even know if this is really an issue for me, my wife and another friend came out as non binary earlier this year and I don't know if this is just the part of me that craves attention and is self obsessed doing this, or if there really is something there.

My friend suggested grrrl as an identifier as it suggest female identified but without the baggage that woman seems to carry with it.

I began my transition MtF but took a detour mid-way and can relate to your sudden sense of not relating to a binary handle. My gut feeling is that more people are beginning to feel that way, who knows that there isn't some universal force changing the nature of gender to something completely ambiguous at some point in the future. I'm not the first one to think that either.

I'm mostly happy to be male bodied, but being a man isn't me. Even if it is that you crave attention, why is considered to be that a bad thing? Maybe you need it right now. Changing the way you think of yourself is perhaps a bigger deal than changing your body, and it can be confusing at times.

It does seem like it's moving that direction, Shantel, albeit slower than I would like.

i don't think people and gender will change all that soon. maybe gender won't change at all, and the only thing that changes is society's acceptance of gender diversity. what if gender diversity always was there, just so well hidden that even the ones who were not part of the "norm" didn't realize they were.

questioning is good. many answers are wrong, and the only one that is right is the one that you can stand for. "woman" is something that is defined differently in different cultures, and within the same ethnicity, you'll often find that coastal, inland, poor, rich, and other people have very different cultures. i grew up learning that women are strong, and just as clever as any man. other girls have learned to act weak for the sake of marriage, and never complain even about an abusive man.

try looking at different ways of being a woman, and a man, and if they still aren't you, then you are something else. grrrl sounds like a really good thing to be though, i'd love to be it once in a while.

Well if i'm honest about things from about 19 until I transitioned I was usually read as queer - which depending on whether I'd plucked all my facial hair out and hair cut could anything from be effeminate man to butch woman. I don't know... woman feels like a very restrictive identity, but I'm a queer, intersectional anarcha-feminist with radical politics, so am I rejecting an identity based on my politics or is it something else. Does it even matter? I'm happy being female bodied as it allows me to bomb around fairly androgynously and I can femme it up when I feel like it.

It's probably silly, but I don't know.

even if i transition to a full male body, i still doubt i'd ever identify as a man. being me will have to suffice.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I feel more like myself than I did before.
But I have always felt more like myself than before... 
Ativan

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 07, 2014, 03:44:13 PM
It's probably silly, but I don't know.

It's not silly. It's important. It seems it's very much an active part of your life and very fundamental to your everyday life, so, if anything, it's anything but silly. I can relate to feeling a sudden panic, or confusion, about the person you feel you are, and the things you'd like for yourself, and I know that it can seem selfish to feel as you do; but it isn't selfish. Not at all. Not ever.

It's really important in some senses that you allow yourself to feel these things, because doing the opposite - stressing - is tiring, though that's often an understatement! You're obviously feeling confused and perhaps anxious too, but stressing isn't something you either need or deserve in this situation. What you do deserve is being able to relax in a safe environment to allow yourself to better understand your thoughts and how it relates to how your feel about yourself.

Do you have that kind of environment? You said your wife came out as non-binary; does she know you're having these thoughts and feelings? Are you able to speak to her about them? Do you have a friend you trust to speak to? Or someone to call?

Alex I you sound so much better.

There seems to be more freedom to self express now but we have far to go.  I have been insist ok Nguyen on taking my space gq and so far it is working, in.a quiet presentation.  But key is discovery of who we are without the emotional noise that clouds our perception of gender.  I think that takes time overcome and the support of the forum and the shrinks.  All presentations that reflect who we are can be good.  False ones we put on to please others can be draining and does not get us far.  But small steps are important and may make a big difference.

Nails out...

I haven't spoken to my wife yet, she's due her first GIC appointment next week and it's all very exciting, and I don't want to add anything to any stress/worry she might be feeling. Especially as I don't have a need for any physical changes, i just want to figure out what being me means. I've talked with Ed, who's my NB friend, they were actually the one who suggested grrrl as a label.

I think this may just be an extension of my slight shift in sexuality, up till recently I'd considered myself a lesbian, but truthfully I'm not just attracted to female bodied people (which is how I think of being lesbian) I'm attracted to female identified people so queer just seems to better encompass that facet of myself. To be honest it may be the reason I came back here, I kinda made a beeline for this forum, the MtF crowd stress me out a fair bit.

They will unintentionally trigger you dear, the mtf's on that side, due to their paradyne, even though they speak in love.  You are in the right place.

Blessings,

SJ Satinjoy

Well we chatted, it was pretty much a non event and I feel more able to figure out what being me means. My wife is obviously excited and nervous for her appointment later this week, and I guess I am a bit as well.

Yes, a lot of them seem to experience the world in a way I just can't relate to.

Are you both able to go together? Or would she prefer to go alone? How are your lives together at the moment? Do you both feel able to communicate with each other easily, or talk about things which might be upsetting, or stressful?

I hope your wife manages to get some fantastic advice and support and that her initial meeting is helpful, though I understand her being nervous.

What do you feel uncomfortable or unsure of? You said you feel your sexuality is fluid. Has something happened to make you think about your sexuality more recently? I saw a photo you uploaded in another thread and I think your incredibly beautiful. Your wife is exceptionally lucky!

We're going together, having a supportive SO will help her immensely, obviously I love her and want her to be happy, but it also supports her case for going on HRT as being out to family and friends seems to be an important criteria in that.

I've been there and done that and know it can be stressful and a complete pain so really just want it to go well for her. I know how much it means going on HRT and how much it helps

you might just be trans-feminine instead of being a trans woman.

I found this, it seems to describe how I feel quite well

QuoteDemigirl: Someone partly a girl, and partly something else, without defining that other part.

I tend to think of woman as a socially imposed label rather than something chosen. I live as a woman, I am perceived as a woman, etc. But it is such a heavy word, with so much history and baggage, assumptions and battles, it just feels exhausting to carry something like that around with me when I don't relate to it myself.

I am female (in the physical sense), and that means something to me because of all the effort I put in to reshape my body according to my needs. But the gender stuff is mostly just awkward and uncomfortable... and, well, not-me. I am agnostic about gender.

I think it matters if it matters to you. For me, thinking about some of this stuff helped me work out why I react the way I do in some situations, why I present the way I do, why I feel like I'm from another planet when people talk about feeling like a woman or a man or anything else. Doesn't have to be a huge deal if you don't want it to be though. I mean, my girlfriend knows because I tell her everything, and my family knows a few bits and pieces, but otherwise... I dunno, people just get used to what I'm like and make up their own minds.

Yes, woman definitely feels like an imposed identity - you're feminine, female bodied, therefore you must be a woman. I went through an assimilation phase immediately after completing my transition, and 99% of the time I was read as cishet, but I find increasingly that I don't want to. I've never really claimed Trans as part of my identity, but at the same time recognise that my being trans is an important aspect of it, I'd already been thinking of myself as a queer woman as it recognised that I'm not cis gender without claiming Transgender as an identity.

I also know that I'm a radical anarcha-feminist and I reject arbitrary structures of power and control, and woman feels like one of those to me. I know I never felt like a woman, I always just felt like me, I just knew that I should be female bodied. I think I just want to find a space on the gender spectrum where I can claim being physically female and some feminine expression without being lumped into a box that doesn't fit.

Quote from: Dread_Faery on September 10, 2014, 06:35:37 AM
I think I just want to find a space on the gender spectrum where I can claim being physically female and some feminine expression without being lumped into a box that doesn't fit.

You know that +1 like you wanted to give me before? Have it right back..

A thread I am enjoying here, as I identify strongly.  My sexual nature and my physical self perception are cast in stone as an noop mft female, that is how my body feels.  However, I have no illusions about being female at all.  I am not female.  I am not male.  Not at core, not even in full social fluidity, and physically I have something left over and don't feel like cutting to change my face.

On the fluid side, and by the way I am bisexual and have shut down the side that physically wants male, to honor my vows to my wife, I can take care of my physical needs alone,   but on the fluid side, it is interesting.  Unlike mtf's, my presentations are all authentic, the not male side, and the not female side.  They range the spectrum and fall short of both.  The notmale protects Satinjoy, she is the source of my deep emotions, my art, my emotional strength and tenacity, but he is the action figure, the one that drives my carmaro, my racekart, my motorcyle, he shows up to work, he protects the family, he takes action.  And if Satinjoy is threatened in any way, he takes over.  You can hear him sometimes in the threads, particularly when we start speaking of gender as observers speaking from core paradyne, that place deep within that watches and sees our gender and feeling and perspectives, and then comments on it, and watches over it all.

Thats just me, I believe in triune gender in my case.

Its all good.  You are extremely fortunate, my dread fairy, for your relationship sounds loving and stable, and that can be a very rare gift for those of us who have transitioned.  As you stick around here in the forest, I believe that worlds will open up for you here as you become free to be you, unhampered by false perception or false reality, living the truth of who you were created to be.

I am glad you are here with us in the forest, and I look forward to seeing the colors come in as you transform.

Nails out, hair down, alert.  That was SJ, I am still reeling from my last scare.  Satinjoy is ok but resting and healing from that.